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Walmart Workers Launch Black Friday Strike

haymarket said:
What about race cars in Austria?
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No to them too. Austrian cars are too small. I don't like little cars.

I studied a semester in Vienna in 1983. I need to go back there but I'm waiting for them to put up a WalMart. I want to point and laugh at the people who have to work on St. Gruchenmaker's Day.
 
tres borrachos said:
My last OT post too. We're getting a ton of snow here in NH today so my husband & kids put up all the outdoor stuff (spotlights, wreath) on Sunday knowing the forecast, and that got me in the spirit, so I spent yesterday and today finishing the inside. Good luck with the outdoor decorating - I know what it's like to change things up and then all of a sudden you're like "uh oh! Christmas decorations don't work now!"
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We had a bunch of big sculptured shrubs for years and years but over the summer, we ripped out everything and completely re-landscaped and now, where the shrubs were, there's a rose garden. Roses don't work as well as shrubs. We'll figure something out though.
 
CanadaJohn said:
That's fair, but limited to one individual family. I could anecdotally point to several families that like to shop together. And let's not forget, we're not actually talking in this OP about working retail on the holiday with any meaning - we're talking about Black Friday, which is by definition a shopping holiday. And as for tradition, I'd say that those people who work for the Detroit Lions and Dallas Cowboys, two NFL teams who've had home games on Thanksgiving Thursday for decades, manage to find a way to celebrate the holiday around their work schedule, knowing full well that working for these teams will mandate working on the holiday.
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You make strong points here, and as someone who entered a field that often requires weekend, night and holiday hours, I understand full well there's a voluntary element to this. But as my anecdote illustrates, working holidays like Thanksgiving does come a cultural and social cost for many. I understand these employees' dissatisfaction with the changing expectations of their jobs and their desire to be compensated for what they see as involuntary sacrifices. Remember, these holiday hours are only a couple years old -- for most of these retail workers, this represents a new demand from their employer.
 
Meh. I'm generally in favor of worker solidarity and all that jazz. Great way to raise wages and improve working conditions. But lets be honest here: taking a retail job and getting pissed about working black friday is, um, ****ing dumb. Sorry.
 
bg85 said:
okay let's slow down for just a minute here. please note that i am pro-free market, and whatever wage you earn is probably a "fair" wage. that said, the report you've quote above is misleading. to only look at the wages of full-time workers means you're either ignorant about walmart's business practices or you're trying to pull one over on everybody.

i'll start with a few questions: do you happen to know what percentage of walmart workers are full-time, and what percentage are part-time? how many hours per week does the average part-time worker get to work?

are the full-time employees mostly supervisory and management employees, or do they also encompass a significant portion of line-level employees who make up the majority of the company's workers?
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It would appear that about 5% of Walmart's employees work less than 30 hours per week.

All Wal-Mart employees who work less than 30 hours a week will no longer be eligible for coverage, a policy change that will affect 2 percent of the company’s 1.3 million U.S. workers and about 5 percent of its part-time workforce.
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Wal-Mart to end health insurance coverage for some part-time workers - The Washington Post
 
digsbe said:
Let them have freedom of expression, that's a good thing. But then again I'm not really going to respect people who won't work demanding more pay and more money. What's wrong with working 40+ hours a week or having 2 jobs? What's wrong with living with roommates and cutting cost? The whole "living wage" this is flawed and seems to push some entitlement mindset. You wage is valued on what the market deems, not what your self important self thinks you are worth.
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1. These are workers.

2. Paying a full-time worker a wage that does not cover the basics of food, shelter and transportation is immoral exploitation and should not be considered acceptable. For a highly profitable company to keep a large portion of their employees in part-time status just to dodge providing benefits is also wrong. The quest for profits needs to be balanced with human decency. If the owners have no sense of decency, then the workers and public, especially customers, should organize and make the owner's excessive greed unprofitable. That is democracy in action.

3. Opinion #2 is not directly related to this particular labor action.
 
TheNextEra said:
Sorry, did the workers get "assigned" to Walmart through some criminal rehab program or did they apply and agree to work retail store hours?

If someone was hired with the GUARANTEE that they wouldn't work holidays, you might have a point. But I am fairly confident that this sort of arrangement was not done in the interview.

Are you showing the same concern for the fire department, police department, and other people that HAVE to work holidays or are you ONLY interested in RETAIL?
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Do you work in a field that is booming in business? I do. I can choose to work in about 60 different countries based only on the fact that I'm fluent in 3 languages. Have I worked in all 60? No but I've worked with teams from around 40. I'm also pretty aware of the fact that I'm not amongst the general populace. My level of education has been constantly rising for years while I work. However, that's only been ensured because of the possibilities made possible through a combination of sheer luck, business savvy and networking. With all that said, I believe I'm an economic minority in the US. The majority do not have the level of economic mobility I've found. What does that mean for me? It means that I'm aware that simply switching jobs is not a possibility for a large number of people. I'm also aware that most of these people are already working for minimum wage just to make ends meet. That means that leaving a job and risking being out of work for even 1 week can make the difference between paying rent and not having money.

That's what these demonstrations are about. Walmart is consistently ranked as one of the worst companies to work for. Not only do they have no issue with labor abuses in other countries, they also seem to have freedom to do as they wish in the US. Those who defend them say 'well, nobody is forced to work for them'. However, we know that's not really a solution anymore than me telling the average moronic libertarian teenager 'if you don't like it, leave the country'. It's a way for the discussion to be silenced. However, it only works if all the other individual has to offer to the discussion is complaining. As it stands, the supposedly anti-Walmart crowd is offering solutions to the problem. These solutions include better treatment/payment of workers as well as an acknowledgement that the people working for Walmart aren't tools which can be discarded. These solutions apparently aren't good enough for you.

So with that said, what is your solution for these people who are being forced to work overtime/holiday (for no extra pay), restricted from social mobility and generally treated as indentured servants? Are they supposed to swallow it because they agreed to work for Walmart? They didn't agree to be mistreated by management. They didn't agree to be restricted from social mobility. The people in these communities didn't agree to be fired for the suggestion that workers have rights which can be defended by unions. I'll wait for your answer.
 
Hatuey said:
Do you work in a field that is booming in business? I do. I can choose to work in about 60 different countries based only on the fact that I'm fluent in 3 languages. Have I worked in all 60? No but I've worked with teams from around 40. I'm also pretty aware of the fact that I'm not amongst the general populace. My level of education has been constantly rising for years while I work. However, that's only been ensured because of the possibilities made possible through a combination of sheer luck, business savvy and networking. With all that said, I believe I'm an economic minority in the US. The majority do not have the level of economic mobility I've found. What does that mean for me? It means that I'm aware that simply switching jobs is not a possibility for a large number of people. I'm also aware that most of these people are already working for minimum wage just to make ends meet. That means that leaving a job and risking being out of work for even 1 week can make the difference between paying rent and not having money.

That's what these demonstrations are about. Walmart is consistently ranked as one of the worst companies to work for. Not only do they have no issue with labor abuses in other countries, they also seem to have freedom to do as they wish in the US. Those who defend them say 'well, nobody is forced to work for them'. However, we know that's not really a solution anymore than me telling the average moronic libertarian teenager 'if you don't like it, leave the country'. It's a way for the discussion to be silenced. However, it only works if all the other individual has to offer to the discussion is complaining. As it stands, the supposedly anti-Walmart crowd is offering solutions to the problem. These solutions include better treatment/payment of workers as well as an acknowledgement that the people working for Walmart aren't tools which can be discarded. These solutions apparently aren't good enough for you.

So with that said, what is your solution for these people who are being forced to work overtime/holiday (for no extra pay), restricted from social mobility and generally treated as indentured servants? Are they supposed to swallow it because they agreed to work for Walmart? They didn't agree to be mistreated by management. They didn't agree to be restricted from social mobility. The people in these communities didn't agree to be fired for the suggestion that workers have rights which can be defended by unions. I'll wait for your answer.
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Education will take you far pilgrim...
 
bg85 said:
(actually i did answer this but i'll do it again) yes, but that's irrelevant. maybe they've changed their mind about working holiday hours, which they, as free citizens, are allowed to do.
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Then, if they are free to change their mind about when they work, they are equally free to get themslves another job in a business that closes on Thanksgiving day, and the store is free to replace them with people who don't care for turkey all that much.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
You make strong points here, and as someone who entered a field that often requires weekend, night and holiday hours, I understand full well there's a voluntary element to this. But as my anecdote illustrates, working holidays like Thanksgiving does come a cultural and social cost for many. I understand these employees' dissatisfaction with the changing expectations of their jobs and their desire to be compensated for what they see as involuntary sacrifices. Remember, these holiday hours are only a couple years old -- for most of these retail workers, this represents a new demand from their employer.
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It's also possible, too, that those working undesirable hours are paid a premium for doing so. That's true with third shifts in many cases. I don't know if that applies at Walmart.
 
Hatuey said:
Do you work in a field that is booming in business? I do. I can choose to work in about 60 different countries based only on the fact that I'm fluent in 3 languages. Have I worked in all 60? No but I've worked with teams from around 40. I'm also pretty aware of the fact that I'm not amongst the general populace. My level of education has been constantly rising for years while I work. However, that's only been ensured because of the possibilities made possible through a combination of sheer luck, business savvy and networking. With all that said, I believe I'm an economic minority in the US. The majority do not have the level of economic mobility I've found. What does that mean for me? It means that I'm aware that simply switching jobs is not a possibility for a large number of people. I'm also aware that most of these people are already working for minimum wage just to make ends meet. That means that leaving a job and risking being out of work for even 1 week can make the difference between paying rent and not having money.

That's what these demonstrations are about. Walmart is consistently ranked as one of the worst companies to work for. Not only do they have no issue with labor abuses in other countries, they also seem to have freedom to do as they wish in the US. Those who defend them say 'well, nobody is forced to work for them'. However, we know that's not really a solution anymore than me telling the average moronic libertarian teenager 'if you don't like it, leave the country'. It's a way for the discussion to be silenced. However, it only works if all the other individual has to offer to the discussion is complaining. As it stands, the supposedly anti-Walmart crowd is offering solutions to the problem. These solutions include better treatment/payment of workers as well as an acknowledgement that the people working for Walmart aren't tools which can be discarded. These solutions apparently aren't good enough for you.

So with that said, what is your solution for these people who are being forced to work overtime/holiday (for no extra pay), restricted from social mobility and generally treated as indentured servants? Are they supposed to swallow it because they agreed to work for Walmart? They didn't agree to be mistreated by management. They didn't agree to be restricted from social mobility. The people in these communities didn't agree to be fired for the suggestion that workers have rights which can be defended by unions. I'll wait for your answer.
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Dollar General was open today; grocery stores were open today; convenience stores were open today. Where is the outrage for these people?
 
Weelllllllll, I went to 4 stores on Thanksgiving night, Walmart being one of them. Didn't see a single striker. In fact, everybody there was happy. :shrug: They treated it like a party atmosphere. Were they all happy? Probably not. But the ones I encountered were happy, and more than glad to help.

Same for Black Friday. I went to the Mall, and hit maybe a dozen stores. Only one store out of all of them, I hit a snag in. Some place called Jimmy Jazz. My daughter wanted some AirMax Nikes, and this was the only place that had them. They were pretty rude, but my daughter wanted the shoes, so I was biting my tongue. Then I inquired about their return policy, and they said, "7 days," as she smacked her gum. "7 days?" "Yeah, 7 days." :roll: I said, "You do realize that this is a gift for Christmas, right? Won't even be opened for a month, right?" She said, still smacking her gum, "I'm sorry. 7 days only. And even then, within the 7 days, you can only exchange. No refunds." I snatched my debit card out of her hand, and said, "Cancel my order. I'll spend $105 on a pair of shoes from a retail store that understands the constraints of returns and Christmas shopping." She rolled her eyes, smacked her gum a little more and cancelled my order. She didn't care. Wasn't money out of her pocket.
 
Superfly said:
Weelllllllll, I went to 4 stores on Thanksgiving night, Walmart being one of them. Didn't see a single striker. In fact, everybody there was happy. :shrug: They treated it like a party atmosphere. Were they all happy? Probably not. But the ones I encountered were happy, and more than glad to help.

Same for Black Friday. I went to the Mall, and hit maybe a dozen stores. Only one store out of all of them, I hit a snag in. Some place called Jimmy Jazz. My daughter wanted some AirMax Nikes, and this was the only place that had them. They were pretty rude, but my daughter wanted the shoes, so I was biting my tongue. Then I inquired about their return policy, and they said, "7 days," as she smacked her gum. "7 days?" "Yeah, 7 days." :roll: I said, "You do realize that this is a gift for Christmas, right? Won't even be opened for a month, right?" She said, still smacking her gum, "I'm sorry. 7 days only. And even then, within the 7 days, you can only exchange. No refunds." I snatched my debit card out of her hand, and said, "Cancel my order. I'll spend $105 on a pair of shoes from a retail store that understands the constraints of returns and Christmas shopping." She rolled her eyes, smacked her gum a little more and cancelled my order. She didn't care. Wasn't money out of her pocket.
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"You get what you pay for" can apply to employees as well as merchandise.
 
disneydude said:
Corporate Greed continues to destroy American Tradition. Last year, I refused to spend a penny at any store that opened on Thanksgiving through the entire holiday season. I will do the same again this year....no WalMart, Kmart, Target, Macy's, Best Buy....etc. Its getting harder to do my Christmas shopping but I believe strongly that corporate greed should not destroy the values of this country.
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American consumerism is as much to blame. Not that I really think it's a big problem. Families and friends can get together whenever the hell they want, nothing inherently special about the day after Thanksgiving.
 
tres borrachos said:
Wouldn't that be cool if all the doctors and nurses turned down the day?

Maybe the firemen can do it too. The country would be one really neat bonfire and there wouldn't be anyone to put them out.

Wooo!
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can we close down my area of work , "the Airlines".....no flights on holidays.
 
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Superfly said:
Weelllllllll, I went to 4 stores on Thanksgiving night, Walmart being one of them. Didn't see a single striker. In fact, everybody there was happy. :shrug: They treated it like a party atmosphere. Were they all happy? Probably not. But the ones I encountered were happy, and more than glad to help.

Same for Black Friday. I went to the Mall, and hit maybe a dozen stores. Only one store out of all of them, I hit a snag in. Some place called Jimmy Jazz. My daughter wanted some AirMax Nikes, and this was the only place that had them. They were pretty rude, but my daughter wanted the shoes, so I was biting my tongue. Then I inquired about their return policy, and they said, "7 days," as she smacked her gum. "7 days?" "Yeah, 7 days." :roll: I said, "You do realize that this is a gift for Christmas, right? Won't even be opened for a month, right?" She said, still smacking her gum, "I'm sorry. 7 days only. And even then, within the 7 days, you can only exchange. No refunds." I snatched my debit card out of her hand, and said, "Cancel my order. I'll spend $105 on a pair of shoes from a retail store that understands the constraints of returns and Christmas shopping." She rolled her eyes, smacked her gum a little more and cancelled my order. She didn't care. Wasn't money out of her pocket.
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You are part of the problem. :2razz:
 
Superfly said:
Good! As I get older, and grumpier, I tend to find that being part of the problem is a lot more fun than being part of the solution. :D
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Being old and grumpy is underrated. :lol:
 
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