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Senate nears 60 on Keystone

apdst said:
How do you understand that?
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Tar Sands Basics

Tar sands (also referred to as oil sands) are a combination of clay, sand, water, and bitumen, a heavy black viscous oil. Tar sands can be mined and processed to extract the oil-rich bitumen, which is then refined into oil. The bitumen in tar sands cannot be pumped from the ground in its natural state; instead tar sand deposits are mined, usually using strip mining or open pit techniques, or the oil is extracted by underground heating with additional upgrading.
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Keystone XL Pipeline | StateImpact Texas

For evidence against the transport of tar sands crude, environmentalists point to an event in May 2011, when 21,000 gallons of oil leaked in North Dakota. This was also due to a faulty valve. The State Department says the maximum amount of spillage in a worst-case-scenario of a Keystone Pipeline leak is 2.8 million gallons spread throughout a 1.7 mile area. TransCanada points out that this is significantly smaller than the amount that escaped during the Deepwater Horizon disaster.

A March 2013 spill of tar-sands bitumen in Mayflower, Arkansas put the Keystone XL pipeline back in the spotlight. An ExxonMobil pipeline carrying tar sands oil from Canada burst, sending more than 12,000 barrels of oil down residential streets and through people’s yards. The pipe was decades old. The spill was categorized as “major” by the Environemntal Protection Agency (EPA) and the cleanup is ongoing.

The pipeline is often compared to another one built by the Canadian energy company Enbridge, which also transports tar sands crude into the U.S. Enbridge, a competitor of Transcanada, “has actually been transporting these types of products [tar sands crude] since 1999 in our pipelines,” said Denise Hamsher, Enbridge’s head of planning. Despite her claim, Enbridge is not without heavy public scrutiny. In July 2010, one of Enbridge’s pipelines ruptured in southern Michigan. Thousands of gallons of oil sands crude flowed into Talmadge Creek, a tributary of the Kalamazoo River. The event caused the EPA to recommend to the State Department that pipelines carrying tar sands be regulated differently than pipelines that carry other types of oil.
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So, again, I fail to see how this thing is going to help the US.
 
apdst said:
You said the tar sands are waste. I guess you proved yourself wrong. Nice job.
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It's the stuff left over from mininng: it's waste.
 
apdst said:
How did that company benefit from that explosion?
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It benefited up until the explosion. It was betting it could rake in enough profits before anything went wrong to cover any future costs. And it's possible it did.

The fact it was risking the lives of people in the surrounding community meant nothing to that company, apparently. It calculated the risk/benefit ratio and decided it was in its best interests to overstock the explosive crap.

That's why we need regulation. What do YOU have to offer that differs?
 
paddymcdougall said:
It benefited up until the explosion. It was betting it could rake in enough profits before anything went wrong to cover any future costs. And it's possible it did.

The fact it was risking the lives of people in the surrounding community meant nothing to that company, apparently. It calculated the risk/benefit ratio and decided it was in its best interests to overstock the explosive crap.

That's why we need regulation. What do YOU have to offer that differs?
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Everybody benefitted, up until the explosion.
 
apdst said:
It's the stuff they're mining for. :lamo
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Do you ever actually read anything?

tar sand deposits are mined, usually using strip mining or open pit techniques, or the oil is extracted by underground heating with additional upgrading
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Jack Hays said:
Pipelines are the safest of all transport means for petroleum products. The Canadian product will be refined at a U.S. refinery and a significant portion will be distributed in the US.
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Tar Sands Action » Key Facts on Keystone XL

Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
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So this thing benefits the US how?
 
Jack Hays said:
Pipelines are the safest of all transport means for petroleum products. The Canadian product will be refined at a U.S. refinery and a significant portion will be distributed in the US.
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Tar Sands Action » Key Facts on Keystone XL

Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
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So this thing benefits the US how?
 
jamesrage said:
This is the part that concerns me and why I oppose the keystone XL. Eminent domain should never be used for private companies,especially foreign owned companies. What the **** is wrong with conservatives who claim to be patriotic and respect property rights.Do they have their lips so wrapped around big Oil **** that they are too ****en blind to see that this wrong?
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Exactly. If approved, it is only going to create about 50 jobs, once the pipeline is complete, and all the petroleum from it will be going to China. Yet some people want the government to take land away from people who have owned it for generations in order to get it built. This is just sick. I guess Communism isn't dead, after all.
 
danarhea said:
Exactly. If approved, it is only going to create about 50 jobs, once the pipeline is complete, and all the petroleum from it will be going to China. Yet some people want the government to take land away from people who have owned it for generations in order to get it built. This is just sick. I guess Communism isn't dead, after all.
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It is these property owners those Cliven Bundy supporters should have been supporting.Not some deadbeat who refuses to pay rental fees.
 
danarhea said:
Exactly. If approved, it is only going to create about 50 jobs, once the pipeline is complete, and all the petroleum from it will be going to China. Yet some people want the government to take land away from people who have owned it for generations in order to get it built. This is just sick. I guess Communism isn't dead, after all.
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A bridge creates fewer jobs than that, once it's completed.
 
danarhea said:
Exactly. If approved, it is only going to create about 50 jobs, once the pipeline is complete, and all the petroleum from it will be going to China. Yet some people want the government to take land away from people who have owned it for generations in order to get it built. This is just sick. I guess Communism isn't dead, after all.
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It's not communism that's doing this. It's capitalism. Otherwise, I agree with your post.
 
From the article Jet57 posted a few posts ago -

Tar Sands Action » Key Facts on Keystone XL

Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) and the Transport Workers Union (TWU) both oppose the pipeline. Their August 2011 statement: “We need jobs, but not ones based on increasing our reliance on Tar Sands oil. There is no shortage of water and sewage pipelines that need to be fixed or replaced, bridges and tunnels that are in need of emergency repair, transportation infrastructure that needs to be renewed and developed. Many jobs could also be created in energy conservation, upgrading the grid, maintaining and expanding public transportation—jobs that can help us reduce air pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, and improve energy efficiency.”
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Well said!
 
Jack Hays said:
The refined product will be made at a US refinery so that added value will accrue to the US, and a significant portion of the refined product will be distributed in the US.
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No, it won't be distributed in the US. And the refineries are in a tax-exempt zone - foreign trade zone.
Report: Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed - Oil Change InternationalOil Change International


And even TransCanada admits there will be maybe 50 jobs at the most, permanently -
FDW's Daily Scoops | Scoop.it
 
paddymcdougall said:
No, it won't be distributed in the US. And the refineries are in a tax-exempt zone - foreign trade zone.
Report: Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed - Oil Change InternationalOil Change International


And even TransCanada admits there will be maybe 50 jobs at the most, permanently -
FDW's Daily Scoops | Scoop.it
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Factually incorrect.


  1. [h=3]What You Need To Know About The Keystone XL Oil ... - NPR[/h]www.npr.org › News › Science › EnergyNPR


    3 hours ago - Because it crosses the U.S. border with Canada, Keystone XL ... Crude from oil sands is some of the most expensive oil to produce in the world.



  2. [h=3]Energy Reality Check: Keystone Crude Won't Be Exported[/h]www.forbes.com/.../energy-reality-check-keystone-crude-wont-be...Forbes


    Jun 19, 2013 - ... and the finished product is sold elsewhere, so there's no benefit to the U.S. ... Using the small amount of refined product exports as an argument to justify ... Keystone gives us improved access to Canadian crude, which, with or ... Renewables need to be a part of that, but so does the Keystone pipeline.



 
Jack Hays said:
The refined product will be made at a US refinery so that added value will accrue to the US, and a significant portion of the refined product will be distributed in the US.
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So, you missed the part where none of it will be distributed in the US but will be exported.
 
danarhea said:
Exactly. If approved, it is only going to create about 50 jobs, once the pipeline is complete, and all the petroleum from it will be going to China. Yet some people want the government to take land away from people who have owned it for generations in order to get it built. This is just sick. I guess Communism isn't dead, after all.
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It's funny how libs thought a few years ago that stimulus money being spent on a week long road paving project was all we needed to put people back to work, but a 2,000 mile long pipeline project offers no job benefits.

It's also funny that a few years ago libs were arguing that drilling more in the U.S. would not affect oil prices because petroleum was a worldwide commodity and a little bit of U.S. oil would have no affect, yet they are now claiming that refined tar sands oil exported throughout the world would have no affect on oil prices.

You guys need to get your stories straight.

No one is "taking" land away from anyone. They are being paid quite well for the rights to bury a pipeline 6' under the surface. Six months after the pipeline is completed, there will be no trace of it on the surface. They can plant crops over it or almost anything else they want to do. As far as the pipeline goes, it will be made to the highest standards in existence.

Don't blame communism for eminent domain by private companies, blame the liberals on the Supreme Court.
 
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