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Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms[W:169]

Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

maquiscat said:
I am ok with any individual born in a male body who has been carefully diagnosed as having GID or whatever the title is now showering with my daughter. Whether or not that individual is attracted to my daughter sexually or not isn't going to matter since those born in female bodies with attractions to females will also most likely be in there with my daughter. The odds of either (in terms of being attracted to my daughter) actually being in there are low and the odds of them doing anything were they in there, are lower.
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Have you ever asked your daughter what she thinks about it?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be confrontational here. I see a lot of people, including you, expressing their views but I've seen nothing...except speculation...that indicates how the children, themselves, react to this kind of thing. Maybe nobody really cares about them, eh?
 
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Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

chromium said:
The interesting aspect of this is allowing a trans kid to participate on the sports team of identified gender. Some will be up in arms about this being unfair (especially if MtF), but a lot of trans kids started out with ambiguous gender at birth, where the doctors and parents rush to choose one gender. Sometimes, obviously, they get it wrong. Why should the kid then be unable to compete in sports?
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That is actually the issue in the original article, although the op took us in a way different direction.

There are female athletes these days who get banned from events because the organizers decide they are actually male.
(Here's an example: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/07/sports/sprinter-dutee-chand-fights-ban-over-her-testosterone-level.html

"Last summer, Chand, India’s 100-meter champion in the 18-and-under category, was barred from competing against women. She has a condition called hyperandrogenism, and her body produces natural levels of testosterone so high that they place her in the male range in the eyes of international track and field."

)

So is letting transgender teams play on the teams of the gender they identify with give them an extra advantage? We want kids to play sports (if they want to); but we also want the games as fair as possible. On the other hand, this is high school level, and on most teams it shouldn't matter if they win or lose, but how they play. (Texas football, of course, is a totally different thing...)

The woman in the article I linked to sure thinks of herself as female and has been treated as female all her life. (like you said, at birth it isn't always obvious). But now she can't compete as a female.

It's all tough. But in high school, I would think we should lean in the direction of leniency and let the kids play on the team with the gender they self-identify as. This isn't going to happen all that often; glad the school in the article is willing to be flexible.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

chromium said:
Yeah freaking right. Let's not pretend that some FtM wasn't thought of as female by their peers and will suddenly fake being male just to get a glimpse at the guys changing? That is nowhere near the price of ridicule and possible sexual harassment that would be in store. I just can't imagine anyone faking this.
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I knew boys in highschool who would join the chearleading squad just to put their hand on a cheerleaders ass. Dispite the ridicule of beign a male cheerleader. Sadly there would be extreme perverts whos desire outweighs embarrassment.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Mycroft said:
Have you ever asked your daughter what she thinks about it?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be confrontational here. I see a lot of people, including you, expressing their views but I've seen nothing...except speculation...that indicates how the children, themselves, react to this kind of thing. Maybe nobody really cares about them, eh?
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I'm a children! I think this is a bad idea, personally. Mostly for reasons like the one in Chris's post, right above mine.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

tech30528 said:
So you're ok with teenage boys with feminine behaviors showering with your daughter?
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Finally, I'll get to see boobs that aren't on a computer!
robot-chicken-nerd-o.gif
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

DDD said:
To the contrary, I want straight people to benefit equally for this reason. Such as showering together with girls for instance.
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If the 95% of guys who aren't gay were to shower with girls, you don't think that's a safety issue? Especially if we're talking nfl players, i would expect mass rapes to ensue. It's really not the same.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

So 14 pages in and no one thought to fact check a WND article? That is kinda shameful, since the whole shower issue is bogus and entirely untrue.

Here is the actual policy: "Controversial" MSHSL Draft Transgender Policy Really Shouldn't Be - Page 3 | City Pages

Notice that it is only about what students can participate in which sports. No mention is made of showers, or locker rooms, or anything else of that nature. So any trans athlete on a team that has students of the other biological gender will probably be treated like this student: Homecoming queen Mary Kate Smith also stars on her high school's football team - News - TODAY.com. Yes, girls have made the football team with shocking frequency, with one or more stories like this every single year. Shockingly, they somehow manage to figure out how to let them shower in privacy.

Furthermore, as should be ****ing obvious if any one actually thought about it, it is not quite so easy as just declaring yourself trans to be accepted as such:

trans.jpg

Yeah, that whole idiotic notion of boys just declaring themselves trans so they can ogle girls, well, it is an idiotic notion. I knew better even before I fact checked(which took all of 30 seconds to do). Why is it that the very mention of trans people and every one just throws out any common sense and reacts emotionally? And why do people not bother to check stories from sites that are usually dishonest like WND, or for outrageous stories(which are almost always a case of being overblown)? I am really embarrassed at the gullability of some in this thread.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Tameamea said:
Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

The world keeps spinning around and keeps getting crazy. After one of the schools allowed a transgender teen (who hasn’t had the surgery yet) to use girl’s toilet, now in Minnesota they consider a possibility of allowing transgenders to use the shower together with the sex they identify themselves.
And while boys might even welcome such changes, I’m not sure that girls or their parents would be extremely glad to see a boy in the girl’s locker.
Seriously, why some doubtful need of one or two people is prevailing over the needs and rights of other people? Give them their own locker, everybody would be happy.
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Boys in the girls locker room, cool.

But no girls in the boy's locker room because boys rule and girls rule.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

chromium said:
If the 95% of guys who aren't gay were to shower with girls, you don't think that's a safety issue? Especially if we're talking nfl players, i would expect mass rapes to ensue. It's really not the same.
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We have discussed this issue in another thread. There should be a glass between genders nevertheless.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Deuce said:
Really? You think high school boys are going to declare to their whole school that they are girls?

Did..did you go to high school?
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Deuce said:
You said "massive upsurge."

Because, for some reason, you think telling their peers they are transgender is something teenage boys would like to do.
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Wait. You don't think that teenage boys will do idiotic and ridiculous things in order to see naked teenage girls?


...were.... were you ever a teenage boy?














We actually had something sort of similar happen in my high school. a male dancer in our dance program said he was gay, which we all pretty much believed because, hey, male ballet dancer. So he changed with the girls (I wasn't in dance, I was in theater, and we did a lot of stuff together). Then, a couple of years into it, we find out he's "actually" bi - so he was enjoying the naked ladies the whole time. Then he shows up to senior prom with some smoking older redhead none of us had ever seen before ( :shrug: ) . Still officially bi the last I heard. Some of the girls felt kind of lied to and violated, but nobody wanted to seem insensitive, so no fuss was really made beyond some sort of behind-the-back talk.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Redress said:
Why is it that the very mention of trans people and every one just throws out any common sense and reacts emotionally? And why do people not bother to check stories from sites that are usually dishonest like WND, or for outrageous stories(which are almost always a case of being overblown)? I am really embarrassed at the gullability of some in this thread.
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Social conservatives always are motivated by cultural issues above all else. They might call themselves "fiscally conservative", but what motivates them at the polls is the culture war whipping post of the day, which these days seems to be transgendered. Sites like WND know this and exploit this to increase their page view rates. Culture wars make otherwise bright people believe some of the dumbest things imaginable.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Tameamea said:
Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

The world keeps spinning around and keeps getting crazy. After one of the schools allowed a transgender teen (who hasn’t had the surgery yet) to use girl’s toilet, now in Minnesota they consider a possibility of allowing transgenders to use the shower together with the sex they identify themselves.
And while boys might even welcome such changes, I’m not sure that girls or their parents would be extremely glad to see a boy in the girl’s locker.
Seriously, why some doubtful need of one or two people is prevailing over the needs and rights of other people? Give them their own locker, everybody would be happy.
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You've demonstrated your headline skimming abilities, now show us you can actually read the article. The proposed policy aims at allowing transgendered teens to play on the opposite gender's sports team.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Goshin said:
Yeah, that'll work out real well.


I'd predict a sudden massive upsurge in boys claiming to be transgendered...
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You do realize it's not that simple, right?
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

herenow1 said:
I don't even like going into the unisex bathrooms.
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Here in my house, that's the only kind of bathrooms we have.
: (
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Redress said:
So 14 pages in and no one thought to fact check a WND article? That is kinda shameful, since the whole shower issue is bogus and entirely untrue.

Here is the actual policy: "Controversial" MSHSL Draft Transgender Policy Really Shouldn't Be - Page 3 | City Pages

Notice that it is only about what students can participate in which sports. No mention is made of showers, or locker rooms, or anything else of that nature. So any trans athlete on a team that has students of the other biological gender will probably be treated like this student: Homecoming queen Mary Kate Smith also stars on her high school's football team - News - TODAY.com. Yes, girls have made the football team with shocking frequency, with one or more stories like this every single year. Shockingly, they somehow manage to figure out how to let them shower in privacy.

Furthermore, as should be ****ing obvious if any one actually thought about it, it is not quite so easy as just declaring yourself trans to be accepted as such:

View attachment 67175981

Yeah, that whole idiotic notion of boys just declaring themselves trans so they can ogle girls, well, it is an idiotic notion. I knew better even before I fact checked(which took all of 30 seconds to do). Why is it that the very mention of trans people and every one just throws out any common sense and reacts emotionally? And why do people not bother to check stories from sites that are usually dishonest like WND, or for outrageous stories(which are almost always a case of being overblown)? I am really embarrassed at the gullability of some in this thread.
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Actually, yes, several of us have pointed out throughout the thread that it's not about locker rooms. However, it's good to bring it up again for those that didn't notice, so thanks.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Mycroft said:
Have you ever asked your daughter what she thinks about it?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be confrontational here. I see a lot of people, including you, expressing their views but I've seen nothing...except speculation...that indicates how the children, themselves, react to this kind of thing. Maybe nobody really cares about them, eh?
Click to expand...

My daughters are beyond the age that it would have been an issue, and this wasn't an issue when they were growing up. Now as much as I would like to think I raised them right and as much as I know they would not have an issue today, who really knows how they would have reacted back then, assuming the same issues as now. Many was the time I had to force them to analyze what their thoughts were versus their feelings. I didn't alway agree with them afterwards but they were at least thinking and not knee-jerking. But as in all times teens and kids are more resilient than adults and adapt faster to changes. I can ask if you are really interested in what they think they would have done.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

TeleKat said:
You do realize it's not that simple, right?
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It was a joke. As I already noted.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Goshin said:
Actually that isn't strictly true.
There are trans who are interested in their preferred gender... trans-women lesbians and trans-men homosexuals.
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There's about 7 billion people on this planet, so if anyone can think about it, it probably exists.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

CRUE CAB said:
How many of you fathers of daughters will be fine with this?
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This is a question that I want to see some answers to.

It's going to be mighty hard for anyone to convince me that anyone with a penis belongs in my granddaughters locker rooms.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

maquiscat said:
My daughters are beyond the age that it would have been an issue, and this wasn't an issue when they were growing up. Now as much as I would like to think I raised them right and as much as I know they would not have an issue today, who really knows how they would have reacted back then, assuming the same issues as now. Many was the time I had to force them to analyze what their thoughts were versus their feelings. I didn't alway agree with them afterwards but they were at least thinking and not knee-jerking. But as in all times teens and kids are more resilient than adults and adapt faster to changes. I can ask if you are really interested in what they think they would have done.
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You don't need to ask.

My main point is that so many here are responding with what THEY think and feel...without actually considering what the CHILDREN might think and feel. Now, sure...maybe those kids can adapt, but should we really be contemplating such drastic changes without considering them? I don't think so.

Kids that age...going through puberty...don't really need those kinds of added pressures.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

paddymcdougall said:
Actually, yes, several of us have pointed out throughout the thread that it's not about locker rooms. However, it's good to bring it up again for those that didn't notice, so thanks.
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Well, except that is the only issue, and it is bogus. Without that, there is nothing to complain about. So the only thing any one has to bitch about is fake, and thus this all falls apart, but people will keep on arguing about it because facts are inconvenient.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

Redress said:
Well, except that is the only issue, and it is bogus. Without that, there is nothing to complain about. So the only thing any one has to bitch about is fake, and thus this all falls apart, but people will keep on arguing about it because facts are inconvenient.
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Yeah... sigh. so why am *I* stlil reading this useless thread? Sigh.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

I wish I had a 5 foot long penis, was a dragon with a unicorn wife, could fly through air and space, had a lifetime supply of srirachi. And some people wish they were a girl. Everyone should just work with me and pretend I have a 5 foot penis, am a dragon, have a unicorn wife, can fly, and am the go-to guy for chinese hotsauce.
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

dirtpoorchris said:
I wish I had a 5 foot long penis, was a dragon with a unicorn wife, could fly through air and space, had a lifetime supply of srirachi. And some people wish they were a girl. Everyone should just work with me and pretend I have a 5 foot penis, am a dragon, have a unicorn wife, can fly, and am the go-to guy for chinese hotsauce.
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I refuse.

Besides, you wouldn't want the 5-foot penis unless you were also a dragon, because how else would you carry around something so unwieldy?
 
Re: Schools propose: Let boys into girls locker rooms

maquiscat said:
I mean other than folks that subscribe to this racial equality nonsense, is there really that much of an outcry to accommodate this stupidity?
I mean other than folks that subscribe to this gender equality nonsense, is there really that much of an outcry to accommodate this stupidity?

Your argument is old and worn. Time to upgrade to better thinking.
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And your argument requires that the casual observer ignore his or her intellect. ;)


Tim-
 
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