Iraq veteran, activist Tomas Young dies at 34

DVSentinel said:

1A5X1 later merged into 1A3X1. I worked on ABCCC (Bookshelf) for awhile. You probably know what it is, unlike many others.

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Really? When was this?

too late to edit, but I can also tell you being in command and control whether airborne or elsewhere is not the same as volleying rounds in the sand.

ReverendHellh0und said:

Really? When was this?

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96-99, then I was stupid and updated my dream sheet during one of the "we may close, so choose now" times. Then got dumped back to AWACS, that is how I ended up 30,000 feet above an Iraqi desert the night the war started, listening in on all the com traffic.

So in your opinion, is it easier to enter those zones with a rifle in your hand or to be onboard a lumbering target with no defensive capabilities? Just curious.

Btw, in reference to you previous post. Where would the US have been had other nations felt the same way from 1776-1781?

ReverendHellh0und said:

too late to edit, but I can also tell you being in command and control whether airborne or elsewhere is not the same as volleying rounds in the sand.

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Never claimed it was. Even two people in the same specialty but at different locations will have different experiences. Hell, there were different experiences from one mission to the other.

DVSentinel said:

96-99, then I was stupid and updated my dream sheet during one of the "we may close, so choose now" times. Then got dumped back to AWACS, that is how I ended up 30,000 feet above an Iraqi desert the night the war started, listening in on all the com traffic.

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were you ever in the balkans?

So in your opinion, is it easier to enter those zones with a rifle in your hand or to be onboard a lumbering target with no defensive capabilities? Just curious.

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I wasn't aware the plane ever flew in anything other than low air threat environments. But you are changing your argument here a little aren't you. you claimed ptsd was due to a lack of faith. are you now saying it has to do with perceived danger?

Btw, in reference to you previous post. Where would the US have been had other nations felt the same way from 1776-1781?

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Did you think any help we got was due to altruism?

ReverendHellh0und said:

were you ever in the balkans?





I wasn't aware the plane ever flew in anything other than low air threat environments. But you are changing your argument here a little aren't you. you claimed ptsd was due to a lack of faith. are you now saying it has to do with perceived danger?






Did you think any help we got was due to altruism?

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Was there someone in ABCCC during that time period who didn't go to the Balkens multiple times? That $90/day per-diem at Aviano paid for a lot of stuff. But I left just before "Operation Save Clinton from embarrassment because he had his dick out again" aka Kosovo.

Actually, they are generally kept in lower threat areas unless the mission dictates. For example, normal doctrine would not have had AWACS where we were, however, in the end, we went to where it was necessary regardless of the risk.

Of course the nature of my argument is changing. As far as I know, the argument has never been made before. Therefore it is necessary, if it is to be argued again, to collect data on what works and what doesn't in order to correct and refine it. Should I decide to reuse it in the future, your feedback has been very useful. Emperors and Kings used to execute Generals who lost battles, that is ignorant, they should only be executed if the lost and were to stupid to learn from it.

Does others lack of altruism and empathy dictate what we should do? Or should we act upon our own beliefs and desires?

You pointed out how poorly we did at occupation in Iraq. Exactly how many times have we actually invaded and occupied another country since WWII? How many people have we helped during that time? Some claim it was economic interests, oil primarily, but how much oil did we get from Iraq before and how much do we get now? If "cheap" Oil was our true motivation for invading, we would have invaded Venezuela or Mexico or Even Canada instead.

No, the logical reason for invading Iraq at the time that we did was the number of assets tied up there already. Due to distance, Northern Watch and Southern Watch used up separate Command, Control and Surveillance assets, CSAR assets, Air Defense Suppression assets, Ground Attack assets and Air Superiority assets. One squadron, at least, of each were locked into support of each operation, not one of each covering both operations. Even if you combine Air Defense Suppression and ground attack, how many squadrons did that tie up? How many did we have?

You may believe that we shouldn't have been there at all. Fine, however, isolationism has never worked and we benefit from trade and getting resources from elsewhere. We need them. Further, the planet, at present, is a closed environment. If we, the strong, don't stand up for the weaker and strengthen them, then in the end, how many of them can we stand off alone?

DVSentinel said:

Was there someone in ABCCC during that time period who didn't go to the Balkens multiple times? That $90/day per-diem at Aviano paid for a lot of stuff. But I left just before "Operation Save Clinton from embarrassment because he had his dick out again" aka Kosovo.

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We may have crossed paths.

Actually, they are generally kept in lower threat areas unless the mission dictates. For example, normal doctrine would not have had AWACS where we were, however, in the end, we went to where it was necessary regardless of the risk.

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How often were you put in such risk?

Of course the nature of my argument is changing. As far as I know, the argument has never been made before. Therefore it is necessary, if it is to be argued again, to collect data on what works and what doesn't in order to correct and refine it. Should I decide to reuse it in the future, your feedback has been very useful. Emperors and Kings used to execute Generals who lost battles, that is ignorant, they should only be executed if the lost and were to stupid to learn from it.

Does others lack of altruism and empathy dictate what we should do? Or should we act upon our own beliefs and desires?

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But how many American lives is it worth liberating people who don't care to protect themselves after we leave? How much of the maiming and blood do we have to shed for those who wont shed thier own?

On top of that, why put our troops into such a situation when 8 years later the other party gets in and simply withdraws, basically giving the islamic caliphate the win?

Was it worth it?

You pointed out how poorly we did at occupation in Iraq. Exactly how many times have we actually invaded and occupied another country since WWII? How many people have we helped during that time? Some claim it was economic interests, oil primarily, but how much oil did we get from Iraq before and how much do we get now? If "cheap" Oil was our true motivation for invading, we would have invaded Venezuela or Mexico or Even Canada instead.

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well, it wasn't oil itself but a mini "cold war" between the US and the criminals at the United nations who used the oil for food program to enrich themselves while blaming the US for the sanctions.


https://web.archive.org/web/20140209063656/http://acepilots.com/unscam/





No, the logical reason for invading Iraq at the time that we did was the number of assets tied up there already. Due to distance, Northern Watch and Southern Watch used up separate Command, Control and Surveillance assets, CSAR assets, Air Defense Suppression assets, Ground Attack assets and Air Superiority assets. One squadron, at least, of each were locked into support of each operation, not one of each covering both operations. Even if you combine Air Defense Suppression and ground attack, how many squadrons did that tie up? How many did we have?

You may believe that we shouldn't have been there at all. Fine, however, isolationism has never worked and we benefit from trade and getting resources from elsewhere. We need them. Further, the planet, at present, is a closed environment. If we, the strong, don't stand up for the weaker and strengthen them, then in the end, how many of them can we stand off alone?[/QUOTE]

ReverendHellh0und said:

We may have crossed paths.




How often were you put in such risk?





But how many American lives is it worth liberating people who don't care to protect themselves after we leave? How much of the maiming and blood do we have to shed for those who wont shed thier own?

On top of that, why put our troops into such a situation when 8 years later the other party gets in and simply withdraws, basically giving the islamic caliphate the win?

Was it worth it?





well, it wasn't oil itself but a mini "cold war" between the US and the criminals at the United nations who used the oil for food program to enrich themselves while blaming the US for the sanctions.


https://web.archive.org/web/20140209063656/http://acepilots.com/unscam/





No, the logical reason for invading Iraq at the time that we did was the number of assets tied up there already. Due to distance, Northern Watch and Southern Watch used up separate Command, Control and Surveillance assets, CSAR assets, Air Defense Suppression assets, Ground Attack assets and Air Superiority assets. One squadron, at least, of each were locked into support of each operation, not one of each covering both operations. Even if you combine Air Defense Suppression and ground attack, how many squadrons did that tie up? How many did we have?

You may believe that we shouldn't have been there at all. Fine, however, isolationism has never worked and we benefit from trade and getting resources from elsewhere. We need them. Further, the planet, at present, is a closed environment. If we, the strong, don't stand up for the weaker and strengthen them, then in the end, how many of them can we stand off alone?

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[/QUOTE]

Ah, you have discovered a fundamental flaw. We leave.