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Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them [W:182]

Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

The fact that the "majority" of humans (I love your Western centric attitude) think Nazis are inhumane doesn't make it truth. The fact that lots of people think something doesn't make it real. Of course, you can claim that it does and it would fit into your narrative very conveniently, but it doesn't make it true. You can stick with humans as much as you want, but all that does is prove that the basis of your morality is predicated on what everyone else things...That's pathetic.

Being a western civilized human, I would have western centric attitudes, but that doesn't necessarily mean I don't appreciate other views. The fact is that the vast majority of humans understand what constitutes inhuman behavior doesn't have anything to do with the fact that humans have defined the behavior of Nazi's as inhumane. First we define what constitutes "inhumane". Then we see that in general Nazi behavior has an astonishingly one to one correspondence with the definition of inhumane in many instances.



Yes, I've read it, it makes nothing you've said any clearer.

Can't help ya there.



Yes, choices are made based on what we believe is necessary and right in a given situation. Thank you for agreeing with me.

So the extermination of millions of Jews for relatively innocuous religious beliefs was right and necessary. You do realize you're swimming in a pool of ****, don't you?
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

Being a western civilized human, I would have western centric attitudes, but that doesn't necessarily mean I don't appreciate other views.

How very noble of you.

The fact is that the vast majority of humans understand what constitutes inhuman behavior doesn't have anything to do with the fact that humans have defined the behavior of Nazi's as inhumane.

They understand what constitutes inhuman based upon liberalised narratives constructed by those powers who won a war of attrition and required such narratives to undermine and denigrate those they defeated. Why wouldn't the "majority" of humans think that certain kinds of experiments were inhumane when that is what is taught to them in their schools. But this definition is a loaded, highly politicised and cultured definition, not based on anything other than the fact those guys won.

First we define what constitutes "inhumane". Then we see that in general Nazi behavior has an astonishingly one to one correspondence with the definition of inhumane in many instances.

Yes you have defined what constitutes inhumane. That is precisely my point. You have defined it.

Can't help ya there.

Well you could explain yourself more articulately for a start.

So the extermination of millions of Jews for relatively innocuous religious beliefs was right and necessary.

Aside from anything, what this sentence demonstrates is how little you know of the subject. To think that the policies against the Jews was because of "belief" is ridiculous. The policies against the Jews were racial acts of self-defence and were no less right or necessary than the American policies against the Natives Americans.

You do realize you're swimming in a pool of ****, don't you?

Every time I walk down a street.
 
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Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

How very noble of you.



They understand what constitutes inhuman based upon liberalised narratives constructed by those powers who won a war of attrition and required such narratives to undermine and denigrate those they defeated. Why wouldn't the "majority" of humans think that certain kinds of experiments were inhumane when that is what is taught to them in their schools. But this definition is a loaded, highly politicised and cultured definition, not based on anything other than the fact those guys won.

My remarks are not specifically directed toward WWII, but it is an event in history we can examine.



Yes you have defined what constitutes inhumane. That is precisely my point. You have defined it.

No, not true at all. Humans defined it, and it is generally accepted. Please provide another defining entity if you have one.



Well you could explain yourself more articulately for a start.

Then I'm guilty of being inarticulate. I'm humbled.



Aside from anything, what this sentence demonstrates is how little you know of the subject. To think that the policies against the Jews was being of "religious belief" is ridiculous. The policies against the Jews were acts of self-defence and were no more right or necessary that the American genocide against the Natives Americans.

You're reaching to defend the atrocity, and you know it. There is no excuse for the treatment of Native Americans. There is no excuse for the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany, either. The fact that the west is guilty of such things doesn't excuse others who do similar things. This also serves to demonstrate just how little you understand, as well.



Every time I walk down a street.

I don't think it's limited to just a street.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

So you don't believe in the first amendment and our form of government.........got it

No, where Nazis are concerned I'd make an exception. They are such low life pieces of scum I'd willingly hang every one of them if it was up to me.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

Do you like satellite tv? Winning the Cold War?

The implication is that we wouldn't have had satellite tv or won the cold war without the help of Nazi war criminals. I reject that premise.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

So nonchalant about it. :) In a way, you are correct. But there is a new book out that supposedly delves a little deeper into the investigations. I haven't read the book yet, only the article referenced above. But it's good to know it's not a big deal to some (many?) republicans. Thanks.

Unless you have a time machine handy, why would it be a big deal to anyone? You can't change it, why freak out about it?
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

Russia beat the Germans? Debatable.

Actually, yes. As much as it sticks in the craw of every right winger, the Russians bore the bulk of the fighting and the killing and the dying in the war with Germany. By the time we were able to intervene in any military way, the Germans had already lost the war in the East. It was just a matter of how long it was going to take the Russians to reach Berlin. The intervention by the US and the Brits in Western Europe shortened the time considerably, but not the outcome.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

Actually, yes. As much as it sticks in the craw of every right winger, the Russians bore the bulk of the fighting and the killing and the dying in the war with Germany. By the time we were able to intervene in any military way, the Germans had already lost the war in the East. It was just a matter of how long it was going to take the Russians to reach Berlin. The intervention by the US and the Brits in Western Europe shortened the time considerably, but not the outcome.

The Soviets hardly and wouldn't have defeated the Germans without Britain and The U.S.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

Yeah, we shoulda just let the Soviets have those people. That would have been a great idea! :roll:

No, we should have taken them and imprisoned them. You want to take von Braun's research, fine. You don't take a guy who made his bones on the bones of slave laborers and make him a national hero.

However, it does not surprise me that Nazi war criminals are on your list of good guys in this thread.
 
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Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

The Soviets hardly and wouldn't have defeated the Germans without Britain and The U.S.

Actually, they probably would have. But being a charter member of the Far Right wing of American politics, I know it is hard for you to give credit to the Soviets for anything. They destroyed the cream of the German army. That fact is undebatable.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

Actually, yes. As much as it sticks in the craw of every right winger, the Russians bore the bulk of the fighting and the killing and the dying in the war with Germany. By the time we were able to intervene in any military way, the Germans had already lost the war in the East. It was just a matter of how long it was going to take the Russians to reach Berlin. The intervention by the US and the Brits in Western Europe shortened the time considerably, but not the outcome.
I don't diminish Russia's effort in the war, but to think they would have taken Germany single handedly is preposterous. They held back Germany not because they were whipping Germany's ass, but that Germany was trying to fight a war on two fronts. Fronts so large they could be considered wars of their own.
Germany made huge gains prior to being stopped just as much by weather as resistance.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

The Soviets hardly and wouldn't have defeated the Germans without Britain and The U.S.
If Germany had never invaded the USSR, and the non aggression pact had held,
We would have had a much more difficult time extracting Europe from under Germany's thumb.
Barbarossa absorbed vast amount of German men and machines, who would have been waiting
at Normandy.
Germany might have still run out of fuel, it just would have taken longer.
 
Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In T...

The implication is that we wouldn't have had satellite tv or won the cold war without the help of Nazi war criminals. I reject that premise.

The Russians having ICBMs, satellites, and all of that because we were too moralistic to pick of the nazi scientists...yea...you can reject that premise...but I doubt the Russians would have been too forgiving.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

They actually weren't fighting a war on two fronts until 1944 - North Africa and Italy were just side shows. The Battle of Kursk, which took place in July of 1943, effectively ended German offensive war in Russia. From that day on they were on the defensive.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In T...

The Russians having ICBMs, satellites, and all of that because we were too moralistic to pick of the nazi scientists.

You give way too much credit to the Nazi war criminals and not nearly enough credit to the United States. I have to admit I remain puzzled by the widespread admiration and adulation for these despicable human beings that is displayed on this forum. Truly puzzled.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

No, not true at all. Humans defined it, and it is generally accepted. Please provide another defining entity if you have one.

Of course humans defined it. You are a human, are you not?

It was generally accepted in ancient Greece that adult men having sexualised relationships with young boys was perfectly acceptable. In fact, it was noble. It was generally accepted in the 19th century that masturbation would lead to blindness.

You're reaching to defend the atrocity, and you know it. There is no excuse for the treatment of Native Americans. There is no excuse for the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany, either. The fact that the west is guilty of such things doesn't excuse others who do similar things. This also serves to demonstrate just how little you understand, as well.

I'm not reaching, sir, I'm actively and openly defending it. Defensive measures against your enemies is always justified, as liberal democracies can attest.

I don't think it's limited to just a street.

In all streets in all parts of the world. The world is imploding and it is being helped along by capitalists, Jews and Muslims alike.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

If Germany had never invaded the USSR, and the non aggression pact had held,
We would have had a much more difficult time extracting Europe from under Germany's thumb.
Barbarossa absorbed vast amount of German men and machines, who would have been waiting
at Normandy.
Germany might have still run out of fuel, it just would have taken longer.

Had the Germans not been engaged in the East, there never would have been a Normandy.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

I wouldn't say they were 19 at the time of the war. The doctor at Dachau had to be in his late 20's, perhaps 30's. These were not "common German soldiers," but Nazi commanders in charge of slave labor and weapons manufacturing.

It may have been scientifically beneficial to the US, but the moral dilemma remains. We did the same with the Japanese doctors who were responsible for torturing thousands of innocent civilians during experiments on par with Joseph Mengele. It may have been economically/scientifically beneficial to the country, but it is morally wrong.

I find myself agreeing being a WWII baby. However, it didn't just benefit the US, but the entire world. And you know about the Faber process which has been responsible for an abundance of food in the post WWII world? Google Faber.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In T...

You give way too much credit to the Nazi war criminals and not nearly enough credit to the United States. I have to admit I remain puzzled by the widespread admiration and adulation for these despicable human beings that is displayed on this forum. Truly puzzled.

Admiration? No. You clearly don't understand espionage though. You steal as much information from your enemy as you can. You don't get it do you? In 1944-45 we weren't fighting the Nazis anymore. We were fighting the Russians. And taking nazi scientists meant taking their information base.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In T...

Admiration? No. You clearly don't understand espionage though. You steal as much information from your enemy as you can. You don't get it do you? In 1944-45 we weren't fighting the Nazis anymore. We were fighting the Russians. And taking nazi scientists meant taking their information base.

I was never opposed to taking them to keep them out of Russian hands. What bothers me is how they became laudable heroes of the cold war. Wehrner Von Braun became an American Icon = a man who was responsible for the horrible deaths of thousands of slave laborers and who never, to my knowledge, even apologized for his Nazi past. Again, you guys want to give credit to these monsters for everything good that has happened since the end of World War II. Do you also include the former concentration camp guards in this admiration, or is it only related to rocket scientists?

http://dora.uah.edu/engineers.html

And please don't attempt to portray me as ignorant of the Second World war. I'm willing to discuss that with you any time you choose.
 
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Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In The U

Had the Germans not been engaged in the East, there never would have been a Normandy.
You may be correct, but then Berlin may have received our atomic attention before Japan,
we did have a Europe first policy.
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In T...

Admiration? No. You clearly don't understand espionage though. You steal as much information from your enemy as you can. You don't get it do you? In 1944-45 we weren't fighting the Nazis anymore. We were fighting the Russians. And taking nazi scientists meant taking their information base.

What does this have to do with the moon?
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In T...

What does this have to do with the moon?

Why did we make the sprint to get to the moon? Remember Sputnik?
 
Re: Nazis Helped Get Us To The Moon. The Reagan White House Helped Keep Them In T...

Why did we make the sprint to get to the moon? Remember Sputnik?
Yea, and live right here on the Space Coast. But I don't see what the Holocaust has to do with it?
Very good possibility that German rocket scientists had no idea of the Holocaust.
 
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