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Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

My comment was exactly what it was - it did not need deep misinterpretation on your part. To make it simple for you, just because a thief didn't rob the bank this time, doesn't mean the thief doesn't rob banks on a regular basis.

The assumption that the person is a thief in the first place is where your analogy fails.

If you KNOW he's a thief, you can prevent it. But if he LOOKS like he might be thief (or might not be), then what?
 
Sigh.

First, Islam is a religion, an ideology. Not a race. Sadly, though, it WILL increase racial tension, because, well....people are stupid.

Second, I confess to being a tad...split on this. I can't say that I overly disagree with most of the messages here.

I don't know the answer. But I can say...a big part of me wants to just say "**** 'em" and kill every last Islamist, muslim, etc. And then move on to the Christians, and finally, the Jews.

Learn to ****ing get along, or appreciate the reality that will be living with more and more people like me.

We're sick of hearing about it. We're sick of fighting because of it. We're sick of legislation concerning it.

Learn to get along.

Or else.

Where can I sign? :)
 
I believe these ads are dangerous in that they could incite violence against anyone who is outwardly Islamic and clearly many Muslims wear their religion quite clearly in their everyday lives.

Do you have white Canadians that have been influenced to Islam religion and all of a sudden they let their beard's grow, and wear Arabian clothes?
 
Here in Toronto, on our buses and subways, religious ads are always controversial. However, if they simply espouse the "benefits" of one religion without disparaging any other religion they have been accepted in limited ways. The ones I've seen have simply been informational such as "get more information here", etc.

Personally, regardless of your views on the topics expressed in the three ads posted in the OP, I believe these ads are dangerous in that they could incite violence against anyone who is outwardly Islamic and clearly many Muslims wear their religion quite clearly in their everyday lives. On that basis, I would oppose them just as strenuously as I would oppose some Palestinian support group who wanted to post ads condemning Israel for Palestinian "apartheid".

Now that we're back on track (and I missed this comment the first time), this is exactly my reservation about these ads. I've been to NYC many times, and there are many obvious Muslims who are most definitely not terrorists.

All it's going to do is stir up hate and fear. Ahmed sitting next to you on the bus or the subway is not going to cut your head off.
 
Here in Toronto, on our buses and subways, religious ads are always controversial. However, if they simply espouse the "benefits" of one religion without disparaging any other religion they have been accepted in limited ways. The ones I've seen have simply been informational such as "get more information here", etc.

Personally, regardless of your views on the topics expressed in the three ads posted in the OP, I believe these ads are dangerous in that they could incite violence against anyone who is outwardly Islamic and clearly many Muslims wear their religion quite clearly in their everyday lives. On that basis, I would oppose them just as strenuously as I would oppose some Palestinian support group who wanted to post ads condemning Israel for Palestinian "apartheid".

To summarize my take on yours ... I hold the First Amendment sacrosanct, but just because you can does not mean you should.
 
Sigh.

First, Islam is a religion, an ideology. Not a race. Sadly, though, it WILL increase racial tension, because, well....people are stupid.

Second, I confess to being a tad...split on this. I can't say that I overly disagree with most of the messages here.


I don't know the answer. But I can say...a big part of me wants to just say "**** 'em" and kill every last Islamist, muslim, etc. And then move on to the Christians, and finally, the Jews.

Learn to ****ing get along, or appreciate the reality that will be living with more and more people like me.

We're sick of hearing about it. We're sick of fighting because of it. We're sick of legislation concerning it.

Learn to get along.



Or else.

I overly disagree with the first one in the OP. Using an isolated incident to paint the portrait that every Muslim is a decapitator waiting to happen is inflammatory as hell, and not remotely close to being true.

I also don't think advocating killing those who disagree with you makes you any better than them.
 
That's fair - I only took issue with it because of its close relationship to religion. I'm all for public transit using their space to generate revenue to keep taxpayer costs low and rider fees low as well. You didn't hear any complaints from me about the other stuff primarily because I never saw anything posted about it - but it wouldn't have been a first amendment discussion in any of those alternate cases you mentioned either.
I understand your concerns, but I do not see where these ads violate the "religious clauses" in the First Amendment. Not the establishment clause nor the free exercise clause. But to deny the ads would indeed violate the free speech clause which is also found in the First Amendment. :)
 
The assumption that the person is a thief in the first place is where your analogy fails.

If you KNOW he's a thief, you can prevent it. But if he LOOKS like he might be thief (or might not be), then what?

I guess my analogy fails because you didn't understand it. The "thief" in my analogy was not Ray, pictured in the ad - the "thief" is/was the advertising companies who, on behalf of their clients, frequently place subliminal, suggestive, messages within otherwise harmless ads. Therefore, the analogy was "just because this ad didn't have a subliminal message, doesn't mean that ads don't often have subliminal messages.
 
Do you have white Canadians that have been influenced to Islam religion and all of a sudden they let their beard's grow, and wear Arabian clothes?

Yes, we have - particularly young people, both male and female.
 
I guess my analogy fails because you didn't understand it. The "thief" in my analogy was not Ray, pictured in the ad - the "thief" is/was the advertising companies who, on behalf of their clients, frequently place subliminal, suggestive, messages within otherwise harmless ads. Therefore, the analogy was "just because this ad didn't have a subliminal message, doesn't mean that ads don't often have subliminal messages.

Fair enough ... I wasn't following your particular train of thought at the time.

The Jays gave it a good run. Gibbons is done after this season, methinks. AA gets a reprieve.
 
To summarize my take on yours ... I hold the First Amendment sacrosanct, but just because you can does not mean you should.

Yes, and there can be competing/conflicting first amendment rights related to speech versus religion.
 
I understand your concerns, but I do not see where these ads violate the "religious clauses" in the First Amendment. Not the establishment clause nor the free exercise clause. But to deny the ads would indeed violate the free speech clause which is also found in the First Amendment. :)

Good morning Vesper,

The ad I had particular concern with, displayed in a public institution which I consider public transit to be, is the one that says "it's not Islamophobia, it's Islamorealism", below the image of the young Brit believed to be the executioner of James Foley as well as the image taken shortly before James Foley is murdered. To me, that equates directly murder with Islam - calling it "realism". One could argue it would be no different than saying "it's not Brit-phobia, it's Brit-realism", implying that all Brits are murderers. The first amendment difference is that religion has some protections whereas Brits do not.

I don't think you or I would disagree that the purpose of these ads is to stir up resentment at a minimum and active resentment either political or, more troubling resentment leading to physical violence. These aren't ads designed in the public service announcement category, at least from my view. They're dangerous, in my view, because they are so blatant in their message, and that makes them unsuitable in a public institution.
 
That's been happening since before 9/11. Apparently we can't tell people with turbans apart here.

This may sound idiotic, but I can't tell any of them apart and I can't tell nationalities apart - show me a Central American or a South East Asian and ask me which country and I'm totally lost whereas some people can pick everyone out and tag them accurately. For me, I just see a man or woman or child and that's all that matters - the detail doesn't mean a thing to me because it's not important to me.
 
Fair enough ... I wasn't following your particular train of thought at the time.

The Jays gave it a good run. Gibbons is done after this season, methinks. AA gets a reprieve.

Jays? You mean the cute birds who frequently visit my yard? That team is still on the death watch for me and until both Gibbons and AA are gone, preferably Beeston too, they don't exist in my world. I'd love to see them finish under .500 and Tampa catch them.
 
Yes, we have - particularly young people, both male and female.

We do too. It is a clear cut sign that Arabs have been more influential than one's own government and culture! I feel disappointed when I see them! Albanians thinking that they are freaking Arabs man!

Luckily they are the minority. But when the population is homogenous and we are not as much in the world anyway, the influence seems to do more damage I believe? How does that makes you feel?
 
Quit with the victim card. It's not a personal attack. You seem to think anything that remotely connects to you is a "personal attack." If you feel it's a personal attack, push the report post button and stop talking about it in-thread.

Conservatives have talked about all sorts of things like banning the construction of mosques and preventing Muslims from immigrating to this country. Even to the point of ludicrous things like freaking out when high schools offered classes in Farsi.

Here in Tennessee there was a minor freakout over a mop sink installed after some renovations to the Capitol. Some republican lawmakers were afraid it was a place where Muslims could wash their feet prior to prayers....
 
We do too. It is a clear cut sign that Arabs have been more influential than one's own government and culture! I feel disappointed when I see them! Albanians thinking that they are freaking Arabs man!

Luckily they are the minority. But when the population is homogenous and we are not as much in the world anyway, the influence seems to do more damage I believe? How does that makes you feel?

It doesn't bother me. I don't understand the draw of religions - perhaps a childhood steeped in religion jaded me. I do think it's a sign that there's something missing in our society when young people look to other cultures/religions for meaning in their lives and acceptance. Perhaps it's a sign that these young people aren't as materialistic as we and most of our children are. That's not a bad thing, but perhaps we're not giving these young people the opportunities to express themselves in a spiritual way and they somehow find it there.

I live in Toronto, one of the most culturally and racially diverse cities in the world, so seeing people who look different from me is a way of life here - in large parts of the city, an old white man like me is the oddity to some extent.
 
Good morning Vesper,

The ad I had particular concern with, displayed in a public institution which I consider public transit to be, is the one that says "it's not Islamophobia, it's Islamorealism", below the image of the young Brit believed to be the executioner of James Foley as well as the image taken shortly before James Foley is murdered. To me, that equates directly murder with Islam - calling it "realism". One could argue it would be no different than saying "it's not Brit-phobia, it's Brit-realism", implying that all Brits are murderers. The first amendment difference is that religion has some protections whereas Brits do not.

I don't think you or I would disagree that the purpose of these ads is to stir up resentment at a minimum and active resentment either political or, more troubling resentment leading to physical violence. These aren't ads designed in the public service announcement category, at least from my view. They're dangerous, in my view, because they are so blatant in their message, and that makes them unsuitable in a public institution.
What the ad seeks to do, and I read some Geller for this, is to fight back in like manner against what is happening to the Jews in the Middle East as well as in both Europe and a growing number in North America as well. And that there is a double standard, or quadruple standards, at play here is undeniable.

Why should anyone not be able to speak out against Islam, or Muslims? Why do we need couch are words in any way? Islam is a belief system and nothing more. It seems clear then that if we disagree with these beliefs, or find them rather foolish we should say so, or at least not be prevented from saying so. That they are beliefs, and nothing more, is why many try to use the term "racist" to thwart any criticism of Islam.

The Blasphemy Police :: SteynOnline

Killed for ‘blasphemy’: Police to interrogate murdered KU dean’s colleagues – The Express Tribune

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/w...asphemy-after-protesting-the-police.html?_r=0

Bob Dylan falls foul of Europe
 
It doesn't bother me. I don't understand the draw of religions - perhaps a childhood steeped in religion jaded me. I do think it's a sign that there's something missing in our society when young people look to other cultures/religions for meaning in their lives and acceptance. Perhaps it's a sign that these young people aren't as materialistic as we and most of our children are. That's not a bad thing, but perhaps we're not giving these young people the opportunities to express themselves in a spiritual way and they somehow find it there.

I live in Toronto, one of the most culturally and racially diverse cities in the world, so seeing people who look different from me is a way of life here - in large parts of the city, an old white man like me is the oddity to some extent.

Yes, I guess the Arab influence hits damages places differently. The bigger the place the less noticeable the damage perhaps. But when you are in smaller numbers even 10-20 lost "non-materialistic" members of the society seem too high!
 
What the ad seeks to do, and I read some Geller for this, is to fight back in like manner against what is happening to the Jews in the Middle East as well as in both Europe and a growing number in North America as well. And that there is a double standard, or quadruple standards, at play here is undeniable.

Why should anyone not be able to speak out against Islam, or Muslims? Why do we need couch are words in any way? Islam is a belief system and nothing more. It seems clear then that if we disagree with these beliefs, or find them rather foolish we should say so, or at least not be prevented from saying so. That they are beliefs, and nothing more, is why many try to use the term "racist" to thwart any criticism of Islam.

The Blasphemy Police :: SteynOnline

Killed for ‘blasphemy’: Police to interrogate murdered KU dean’s colleagues – The Express Tribune

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/w...asphemy-after-protesting-the-police.html?_r=0

Bob Dylan falls foul of Europe

I don't disagree - my concern is with the venue and the potential for inciting violence. Plaster Time Square with these ads but not on public transit which may be a person's only source of getting around. It's not right, in my view, that a Muslim has to pay to ride a subway train and be targeted at the same time.
 
I don't disagree - my concern is with the venue and the potential for inciting violence. Plaster Time Square with these ads but not on public transit which may be a person's only source of getting around. It's not right, in my view, that a Muslim has to pay to ride a subway train and be targeted at the same time.
I can understand their discomfort but others are having to deal with this reality and seeing some possible discomfort within the Muslim community may not be such a bad thing. Perhaps this will encourage others into taking some direct action against those who preach hate and intolerance in their community.

I can see where it makes people uncomfortable, including me. But potential violence against whom? It seems that it's the Jews who are suffering genuine violence, and some outrageous criticisms, and Muslims should finally be put on the defensive rather than just falling back on the 'Not all Muslims..." cliche. Geller may be a pain in the ass but I think her voice is needed to really attract people's attention to the double standards at play in much of the media.
 
I can understand their discomfort but others are having to deal with this reality and seeing some possible discomfort within the Muslim community may not be such a bad thing. Perhaps this will encourage others into taking some direct action against those who preach hate and intolerance in their community.

I can see where it makes people uncomfortable, including me. But potential violence against whom? It seems that it's the Jews who are suffering genuine violence, and some outrageous criticisms, and Muslims should finally be put on the defensive rather than just falling back on the 'Not all Muslims..." cliche. Geller may be a pain in the ass but I think her voice is needed to really attract people's attention to the double standards at play in much of the media.

You make a fair point in your first paragraph and I can't disagree that public disgust is a contributing factor in getting any person or group of people to change their attitude/actions - you just have to look at what's going on in the NFL now to know the power of public disdain.

I just fear that there seems to be an abundance of unstable and easily impressionable people out there who don't need much to trigger violent behavior in a mistaken belief they're doing good. But I guess we'll see - hopefully, I'm wrong.
 
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