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McDonnells convicted of corruption

Jack Hays said:
Their blind spot came from the fact that none of this was against Virginia law. The prosecution was federal.
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Taking bribes is legal under Virginia law? Then it must be Christmas everyday for Virginian politicians.
 
Crosscheck said:
Taking bribes is legal under Virginia law? Then it must be Christmas everyday for Virginian politicians.
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Rules on gifts and reporting thereof are extremely lax, and a bribe must be tied directly to a specific act done in return. This was a federal prosecution because none of it was illegal under Virginia law.
 
Jack Hays said:
They were offered a generous pretrial plea bargain but declined. In retrospect that was another bonehead move. I don't have a problem with the guilty verdict but I also don't have a problem with the defense strategy. Who knows? Maybe it was true.
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If they believed they were innocent, they should not have taken the pre-trial deal, no matter how generous. I don't have a problem with the defense strategy from the standpoint of a defense lawyer, but McConnell selling out his wife to save his own skin is unconscionable for someone the purports to put family first.... obviously, he isn't about family values (even if it is true, as it means he neglected his wife, which is not a family value). He was pretty much admitting he was a liar no matter what he did here.
 
And don't forget that, for every McDonnell, there is a Blagojevich. They are all, Democrats and Republicans alike, crooked as the day is long.
 
Jack Hays said:
Their blind spot came from the fact that none of this was against Virginia law. The prosecution was federal.
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That's the somewhat confusing part to me. What they did was well within the Virginia laws, but not the federal laws. Don't get me wrong, they both deserve to be punished, but I am confused why this became a federal issue. And what they did was pretty rotten, I'm not sure I support the idea of them spending decades in a federal prison. They didn't cause any kind of massive widespread corruption and this seemed more a quid pro quo than anything else, mostly benefitting his wife (who I'm pretty sure had a major crush on that guy).

That said, I hope this is a lesson to all other politicians, but I won't hold my breath on that.
 
upsideguy said:
<snip>

That all said, I may take the minority position here to think the McDonnell convictions are really justice running amuck. They seem more guilty of stupidity than anything else. There doesn't seem to be any real corruption here (no benefit to the corrupter), just stupidity in taking things that should not be benefits of the job. Stupidity is not a crime, though is should disqualify you for public office (hear that Michelle Bachman?). It seems the prosecution overplayed their hand here.

On the hand, we did expose yet another hypocrite: the family value guy was more than happy to throw his wife under the bus to save is his own skin. How is that for family values? Move over David Vetter, the Cons have a new Hypocrite of the Year.
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I agree with your first statement. Not 100% sure about your second. Family values as I understand those who promote them don't have anything to do with sacrificing yourself to save your wife whose behavior wasn't really what it should have been.
 
upsideguy said:
False equivalence. The poster to whom you responded referred to a felon. Spitizer may have been caught red-handed with his .... in his hands, but is not a felon. We have moral infidelity compared to criminal infidelity. They are different things.
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First, I'm not comparing Spitzer to McDonnell with regards to their convictions - your accusation of false equivalence is therefore incorrect. You apparently missed the entire point.

upsideguy said:
That all said, I may take the minority position here to think the McDonnell convictions are really justice running amuck. They seem more guilty of stupidity than anything else. There doesn't seem to be any real corruption here (no benefit to the corrupter), just stupidity in taking things that should not be benefits of the job. Stupidity is not a crime, though is should disqualify you for public office (hear that Michelle Bachman?). It seems the prosecution overplayed their hand here.

On the hand, we did expose yet another hypocrite: the family value guy was more than happy to throw his wife under the bus to save is his own skin. How is that for family values? Move over David Vetter, the Cons have a new Hypocrite of the Year.
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McDonnell knew the limits, he knew what the law stated and he took the money, gifts, etc... anyway. :shrug: Just another corrupt politician who deserves jail.
 
upsideguy said:
If they believed they were innocent, they should not have taken the pre-trial deal, no matter how generous. I don't have a problem with the defense strategy from the standpoint of a defense lawyer, but McConnell selling out his wife to save his own skin is unconscionable for someone the purports to put family first.... obviously, he isn't about family values (even if it is true, as it means he neglected his wife, which is not a family value). He was pretty much admitting he was a liar no matter what he did here.
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To be fair his wife did have the hots for that vitamin dude.
 
Crosscheck said:
It does amaze you that him and his wife were so stupid to think taking all these free expensive gifts wouldn't raise an eyebrow.
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apparently they lived way larger than their paycheck, and by the time he got elected, were desperately in debt. From the testimony it seems the wife was driving the process, but McDonnel still deserves to have the book thrown at him - wives are assumed to be trusted agents of their husbands.

People do stupid, stupid things when they hope it is a Way Out of previous Stupidity.
 
tres borrachos said:
I agree with your first statement. Not 100% sure about your second. Family values as I understand those who promote them don't have anything to do with sacrificing yourself to save your wife whose behavior wasn't really what it should have been.
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interesting how chauvinism is suddenly "pro-family", eh?
 
tres borrachos said:
That's the somewhat confusing part to me. What they did was well within the Virginia laws, but not the federal laws. Don't get me wrong, they both deserve to be punished, but I am confused why this became a federal issue. And what they did was pretty rotten, I'm not sure I support the idea of them spending decades in a federal prison. They didn't cause any kind of massive widespread corruption and this seemed more a quid pro quo than anything else, mostly benefitting his wife (who I'm pretty sure had a major crush on that guy).

That said, I hope this is a lesson to all other politicians, but I won't hold my breath on that.
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the lesson to be learned is to be covert, not overt in the acceptance of gifts
as long as giving one's money to politicians is seen as 'free speech' we will continue to have the best government money can buy
 
cpwill said:
apparently they lived way larger than their paycheck, and by the time he got elected, were desperately in debt.
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It wasn't all desperately in debt but mostly greed for things that shine and sparkle. As the article stated
including a Rolex watch, luxurious vacations, a Ferrari ride and a $20,000 New York City shopping spree
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Paying the rent is one thing, getting a Rolex, vacations and shopping sprees is something else. To me they aren't any different than the looters in Ferguson. Just grab and shove your pockets full with whatever you can grab. Sure its wrong but the opportunity presented itself to you.

It is just our culture. If your wallet fell out of your pocket while walking down a sidewalk, I have always felt it would be a 50/50 chance the person behind you would tell you or keep it themselves.
 
I love how Charlie Rangel was committed the following:

soliciting donations from people with business before his committee to fund a center named in his honor at City College of New York, not paying taxes on a Caribbean home, improperly using a rent-stabilized apartment in New York as a campaign office, and not properly disclosing more than $600,000 in income and assets.


Democrat Rangel charged with 13 ethics violations

And yet he not only won't spend a minute in a Federal prison - he's still a sitting Congressman.
 
Crosscheck said:
It wasn't all desperately in debt but mostly greed for things that shine and sparkle. As the article stated Paying the rent is one thing, getting a Rolex, vacations and shopping sprees is something else. To me they aren't any different than the looters in Ferguson. Just grab and shove your pockets full with whatever you can grab. Sure its wrong but the opportunity presented itself to you.

It is just our culture. If your wallet fell out of your pocket while walking down a sidewalk, I have always felt it would be a 50/50 chance the person behind you would tell you or keep it themselves.
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Many seem to think that people are inherently good. They are not. While some like to focus on the politicians and their "shortcomings" what about the "shortcomings" of the dear citizens in this country who elect them? I doubt you would even have a 50/50 chance of having your wallet returned to you these days. How many among us get paid under the table and never claim their income? How many among us cheat on their tax returns? How many among us lie to obtain benefits from the government they do not deserve? How many people want something for nothing and the sad part think they are deserving of it? Yeah, you are correct, it is the culture of our times.
 
FaceofBachmann said:
I'm so glad you set the facts straight. It's not like Gingrich was ever an analyst on Fox or anything.

newt-gingrich-FNC.png
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Ouch! Looks like Ockham stepped in it.
 
Texmex said:
Ouch! Looks like Ockham stepped in it.
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I'll bet he was on CBS, NBC and ABC too. Why isn't he on Fox now, and furthermore what does it matter. I guess you and Face think alike, and can't see the ridiculousness and low clever level of his snarky partisan comments.
 
American said:
I'll bet he was on CBS, NBC and ABC too. Why isn't he on Fox now, and furthermore what does it matter. I guess you and Face think alike, and can't see the ridiculousness and low clever level of his snarky partisan comments.
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let's look at what was presented:
Ockham said:
Quite right - another mistake by McDonnell.



He knew what was going on and that it was illegal. I'm hoping they give him the maximum.



Uhh... Gingrich is on CNN, not Fox. Just a tip for you: When making snarky partisan remarks at least get the analogous information right otherwise your statement becomes an embarrassment like yours just did.
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[emphasis added by bubba to make the point]

the presentation was made that gingrich was NOT on the faux news channel
as has been demonstrated, he was
but i did laugh at the self-ownage regarding snarkiness and being embarrassed when found wrong
 
justabubba said:
let's look at what was presented:
[emphasis added by bubba to make the point]

the presentation was made that gingrich was NOT on the faux news channel
as has been demonstrated, he was
but i did laugh at the self-ownage regarding snarkiness and being embarrassed when found wrong
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His statement is accurate, he IS on CNN because that's where he IS now. Which proves he's not just some Foxbot who was never on another network, which to me was the implication about getting on some network.
He was commenting on Fact's total hackjob comment about corruption being the way to glory in the GOP and Fox. Where were you on that?
 
American said:
His statement is accurate, he IS on CNN because that's where he IS now. Which proves he's not just some Foxbot who was never on another network, which to me was the implication about getting on some network.
He was commenting on Fact's total hackjob comment about corruption being the way to glory in the GOP and Fox. Where were you on that?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Y69p1Lx48
 
justabubba said:
let's look at what was presented:
[emphasis added by bubba to make the point]

the presentation was made that gingrich was NOT on the faux news channel
as has been demonstrated, he was
but i did laugh at the self-ownage regarding snarkiness and being embarrassed when found wrong
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Presentation was made that Gingrich is NOW not of Fox - notice I did not say he never was on Fox.
Note my next post...

Ockham said:
It's not like Gingrich has his own SHOW on CNN or anything... live in the here and now.
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(My emphasis for morons who cannot read or comprehend properly)

See how that works? But I do agree... your self ownage is quite amusing. Care to continue it? :popcorn2:
 
This thread is turning extremely partisan. Corruption is a bi partisan endeavor. Democrats, republicans, and independents have their corrupt politicians. No one is immune from corruption.
 
Hicup said:
Corrupt republicans go to jail, corrupt democrats get speaking engagements.

Tim-
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ollie north says you are wrong
 
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