Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

The teen is going to lose this one and he should lose it hard. The state has every right to dictate how and what procedures are required to be followed to get the privilege of driving.

reinoe said:

The teen is going to lose this one and he should lose it hard. The state has every right to dictate how and what procedures are required to be followed to get the privilege of driving.

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No. It is highly likely that he won't lose since this is gender discrimination. He is not wearing anything that a girl/woman is not allowed to wear and the makeup alone does not reasonably change his appearance enough to reasonably consider it a "disguise".

Driving is a privilege, but equal protection of the laws is a right.

roguenuke said:

No. It is highly likely that he won't lose since this is gender discrimination. He is not wearing anything that a girl/woman is not allowed to wear and the makeup alone does not reasonably change his appearance enough to reasonably consider it a "disguise".

Driving is a privilege, but equal protection of the laws is a right.

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And the right to drive is something as dictated by the state. It's the same reason why women can't wear burqas and Jewish men can't wear that head thing.

reinoe said:

And the right to drive is something as dictated by the state. It's the same reason why women can't wear burqas and Jewish men can't wear that head thing.

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The state still has to abide by equal protection laws and cannot discriminate.

For instance, the state cannot require women to take more testing than they do men, that is gender discrimination. The DMV cannot require Asians to get a higher score on the driving test than those of other races/nationalities. The DMV cannot require white people to wear a suit and tie or dress for their photo and allow other races to wear whatever they wish. This is what makes it gender discrimination. They are allowing women to wear something that they aren't allowing men to wear, and they are not going to be able to show an important state interest is furthered by doing this.

roguenuke said:

Because that clown is in a profession, not living as a clown, even if the clown is in that makeup a lot.

Here's an easy way to determine if it should be alright or not, would he be allowed to get on a plane dressed as he is without getting further screening? The answer is almost certainly "yes", so then the DMV has no place to tell him he needed to remove his makeup. This is gender discrimination.

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It's not gender discrimination - that's nonsense. Was he told he can't get a license because he's male? female? - NO - he was told he can't get his license because his appearance was disguised by too much make-up, period.

CanadaJohn said:

It's not gender discrimination - that's nonsense. Was he told he can't get a license because he's male? female? - NO - he was told he can't get his license because his appearance was disguised by too much make-up, period.

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It is gender discrimination. He was being treated differently because of his gender alone. That is gender discrimination.

His appearance is not a disguise. That is why he is being treated differently in fact. It is only assumed his appearance is a disguise because of his gender. The same thing on a female would not have given that assumption. Can a DMV agent tell a white girl that she cannot wear cornrows in her hair because she is white? That she has to remove the cornrows because they are a "disguise" designed to make her look black? What if the girl has a deep tan or darker skin tone and the cornrows but the only thing the DMV agent can do something about is the hair? Should she be made to remove the cornrows while they are allowed for a black girl?

roguenuke said:

It is gender discrimination. He was being treated differently because of his gender alone. That is gender discrimination.

His appearance is not a disguise. That is why he is being treated differently in fact. It is only assumed his appearance is a disguise because of his gender. The same thing on a female would not have given that assumption. Can a DMV agent tell a white girl that she cannot wear cornrows in her hair because she is white? That she has to remove the cornrows because they are a "disguise" designed to make her look black? What if the girl has a deep tan or darker skin tone and the cornrows but the only thing the DMV agent can do something about is the hair? Should she be made to remove the cornrows while they are allowed for a black girl?

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Firstly, it is a disguise - the whole purpose of makeup is to "make up" an appearance that is different from the one you were born with. It is a disguise, because the young man in this situation wants to appear to be a girl, which he is not. Calling this gender discrimination is nonsense because the DMV clerk didn't tell him he had to have a sex change in order to be eligible for a license - she told him he had to present himself in a more natural way as to not appear to be someone he is naturally not.

Secondly, a white woman with cornrows would have not problem, unless the cornrows obstructed a clear view of her face at which point she'd be asked to position her hair to give a clear view - likewise, if a male or female has abnormally long bangs that obscure the face they would also be asked to position the hair so a clear view of their face is available.

CanadaJohn said:

Firstly, it is a disguise - the whole purpose of makeup is to "make up" an appearance that is different from the one you were born with. It is a disguise, because the young man in this situation wants to appear to be a girl, which he is not. Calling this gender discrimination is nonsense because the DMV clerk didn't tell him he had to have a sex change in order to be eligible for a license - she told him he had to present himself in a more natural way as to not appear to be someone he is naturally not.

Secondly, a white woman with cornrows would have not problem, unless the cornrows obstructed a clear view of her face at which point she'd be asked to position her hair to give a clear view - likewise, if a male or female has abnormally long bangs that obscure the face they would also be asked to position the hair so a clear view of their face is available.

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Then all makeup, even that worn by women would be a disguise as well, and they would have to be made to remove makeup at the DMV also.

There you go again. You are attributing the wearing of makeup to being a girl. That is the problem. While it may be the norm that women wear makeup and men don't, it is not a law for either. It is nothing but a social norm.

This is gender discrimination. He is being made to do something based solely on his gender. If he was a she, he would not have had to remove his makeup.

You are assuming that a white woman with cornrows would not have a problem. That is an assumption you are trying to use to change the scenario I am giving you. The entire point is that it was said that it wasn't discrimination because the DMV can make people do things to get their license so long as they are still allowed to get it when they do the request. That simply isn't true. It is still discrimination to ask someone who is of a certain race, religion, sex, whatever to do something that you would not ask someone of a different religion, race, sex, whatever to do. It might be justified discrimination, but that must be determined by what the purpose of the request is and whether it furthers an important or higher state interest in doing it. This doesn't.

So long as they are asking everyone to do it, then it isn't discrimination. But in this case, with this boy, they do not ask girls/women to remove their makeup, so that is what makes it discrimination.

roguenuke said:

Wearing clothes that are normally worn by the other sex or wearing makeup when it is normally worn now by the other sex is not "a mental disorder", at all. No one is allowed to dress up like Spiderman. And this boy is not professing to be a girl. He is merely wearing attire that is normally worn by women. And yes, the DMV should have to acquiesce because there is no law that says men cannot wear makeup or women's clothing.

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Nope, sorry, he's a mental case, clear cut.


Tim-

roguenuke said:

So long as they are asking everyone to do it, then it isn't discrimination. But in this case, with this boy, they do not ask girls/women to remove their makeup, so that is what makes it discrimination.

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This is going nowhere, so one last time and then I'm done.

The DMV would ask a girl/woman to remove their makeup should that makeup be used to disguise who they naturally are. If a woman or man is listed as Caucasian/white on their data and they present wearing blackface makeup they will be asked to remove the makeup before their picture is taken no matter how much they may bitch and moan about walking around in blackface all day every day - it's that simple.

DMV clerks aren't known for being the sharpest knives in the drawer so to expect them to intuitively know that in everyday life someone wears sufficient makeup to hide who they are is not going to happen - they simply look at a person as they present themselves and make a judgement. 999 times out of 1000 I'm betting they don't have an issue - one time, like this, they might. If 999 people out of 1000 can follow the common sense procedures and not be so self-obsessed and in need of unreasonable attention, that last person can do the same - or, they can take the bus.

CanadaJohn said:

This is going nowhere, so one last time and then I'm done.

The DMV would ask a girl/woman to remove their makeup should that makeup be used to disguise who they naturally are. If a woman or man is listed as Caucasian/white on their data and they present wearing blackface makeup they will be asked to remove the makeup before their picture is taken no matter how much they may bitch and moan about walking around in blackface all day every day - it's that simple.

DMV clerks aren't known for being the sharpest knives in the drawer so to expect them to intuitively know that in everyday life someone wears sufficient makeup to hide who they are is not going to happen - they simply look at a person as they present themselves and make a judgement. 999 times out of 1000 I'm betting they don't have an issue - one time, like this, they might. If 999 people out of 1000 can follow the common sense procedures and not be so self-obsessed and in need of unreasonable attention, that last person can do the same - or, they can take the bus.

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You just said that all makeup disguises who a person naturally is. There is no evidence that any girl has been asked to remove their makeup for this DMV. I'm willing to bet there have been hundreds more girls/women going through this particular DMV in a month with more makeup than this boy has on.

Race is not on most (if any) driver's licenses. What if one of these girls listed "black" or "white" on some official document/ID that did have their race on it? Would they be wrong?



Those little girls are both mixed babies yet only one could claim she was black on an official ID (if they actually mentioned the race on there).

Makeup is not something that is gender mandated to either have or not have. There are no laws that say a man/boy/male cannot wear makeup.

I asked before, but here's an even easier one. If this boy walked into a bank with that makeup on, would he be asked to leave for "wearing a disguise"? I'm willing to bet no bank would be willing to ask him to leave.

It doesn't matter how bright they are or not. They should know better and that proves the state has a lack of training in this area. More likely is that many in the state agree that men shouldn't wear makeup despite the fact that this is an issue of discrimination.

In all likelihood, this kid will win his case in court eventually. It may not be the first court, but by the end, he should prevail because this is blatant gender discrimination.

WCH said:

What good is a photo ID if one is in disguise?

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If he were out somewhere in makeup and presented his photo ID where he wasn't wearing makeup what good would it be?

roughdraft274 said:

If he were out somewhere in makeup and presented his photo ID where he wasn't wearing makeup what good would it be?

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That's his problem The state wants to see what you actually look like before issuing a license.

WCH said:

That's his problem The state wants to see what you actually look like before issuing a license.

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No. That is not the case here at all. Otherwise, they would make girls/women remove their makeup too before they could take a driver's license photo. Since they don't, that means this is gender discrimination.

Gringo allstar said:

The purpose of ID is???? Identification!! He can play dress up after he gets his photo taken. Find another cause to get behind because this isn't it, you just look irrational and quite frankly stupid.

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But if he wears the makeup while driving....then it would make better Identification if it's in his photo also.

WCH said:

That's his problem The state wants to see what you actually look like before issuing a license.

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Ah, but if he's using it as ID and then needs ID it doesn't look like him. Then it's not a very good ID is it?

rocket88 said:

Ah, but if he's using it as ID and then needs ID it doesn't look like him. Then it's not a very good ID is it?

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The person who is looking at his ID must decide if it's him or not.

One of my customers hired this kid who painted himself gold everyday until one day it was something different. IMO the law shouldn't need to accommodated weirdness.

rocket88 said:

But if he wears the makeup while driving....then it would make better Identification if it's in his photo also.

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We used to call this impersonating a female. Until he gets his wee wee loped off gets fake tits and takes hormones HE needs to be IDed for what he is.. A male.
I'm sure he would also want to shower with the girls after gym class also so I guess we should allow that to?? Because we sure don't want his feelings hurt or for him to be offended, screw how others feel about it? I'm sure he will sue Hooters in the future because he has every right to be a Hooters girl also.

roguenuke said:

No. That is not the case here at all. Otherwise, they would make girls/women remove their makeup too before they could take a driver's license photo. Since they don't, that means this is gender discrimination.

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So then I should be able to shower with women at the gym, or else it's gender discrimination? ?

roguenuke said:

You just said that all makeup disguises who a person naturally is. There is no evidence that any girl has been asked to remove their makeup for this DMV. I'm willing to bet there have been hundreds more girls/women going through this particular DMV in a month with more makeup than this boy has on.

Race is not on most (if any) driver's licenses. What if one of these girls listed "black" or "white" on some official document/ID that did have their race on it? Would they be wrong?

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Those little girls are both mixed babies yet only one could claim she was black on an official ID (if they actually mentioned the race on there).

Makeup is not something that is gender mandated to either have or not have. There are no laws that say a man/boy/male cannot wear makeup.

I asked before, but here's an even easier one. If this boy walked into a bank with that makeup on, would he be asked to leave for "wearing a disguise"? I'm willing to bet no bank would be willing to ask him to leave.

It doesn't matter how bright they are or not. They should know better and that proves the state has a lack of training in this area. More likely is that many in the state agree that men shouldn't wear makeup despite the fact that this is an issue of discrimination.

In all likelihood, this kid will win his case in court eventually. It may not be the first court, but by the end, he should prevail because this is blatant gender discrimination.

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The reason there is no laws on the books for this it's because it wasn't need. People used to have common sense! But the education system as beat that out of them, so now we have nonsense such as this.

This how it should be... Girls come in for a license, have on a little make up, no issue. Too much make up, get cleaned up or no photo. Men with no make up, no problem, men with light make up, maybe a strange look, but okay. Men made up like a girl, get lost until you clean up.

And the most important part, show up in court with a complaint because you showed up for a photo ID with too much make up, get thrown out of there too.

WCH said:

That's his problem The state wants to see what you actually look like before issuing a license.

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That is what he looks like FFS. He made his lips slightly more red and put some color on his cheeks. You could still very easily tell who the kid is. He wasn't disguised in any manner.

My guess is that you hate transgender people more than government, is that it? Because in any other thread you'd be bitching about the government telling people what to do. But not in this one case. Conservative my happy ass.

roughdraft274 said:

That is what he looks like FFS. He made his lips slightly more red and put some color on his cheeks. You could still very easily tell who the kid is. He wasn't disguised in any manner.

My guess is that you hate transgender people more than government, is that it? Because in any other thread you'd be bitching about the government telling people what to do. But not in this one case. Conservative my happy ass.

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I think people should have proper IDs for security and voting purposes, regardless of how happy your ass is.

WCH said:

I think people should have proper IDs for security and voting purposes, regardless of how happy your ass is.

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In what way is his ID not proper because his lips are slightly more red and his skin is smoother?

Is a womans ID not proper if she is wearing a wig or extensions in her photo ID? or how about if you have a spray tan?

roughdraft274 said:

In what way is his ID not proper because his lips are slightly more red and his skin is smoother?

Is a womans ID not proper if she is wearing a wig or extensions in her photo ID? or how about if you have a spray tan?

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IMO he's hiding his true gender. Will it say 'male' on his ID?

If so he needs to present himself as a male for the picture. If he want's to be a woman, go through the change and go to court to get your name changed.

Again,I have no sympathy for weirdness.