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"I'm Not Your Brother," Officer tazes Man in Front of His Children.

In order for people to have authority over me in a 'free' society I must agree to it. It's works on the same principle as a guard you hire for your business just on a bigger scale. Again, just because you can issue aggression towards someone doesn't mean they agreed to anything.
Sorry pal but you are really struggling with reality.

Let me ask you this. If a man commits an act of murder, does law enforcement have the 'authority' to arrest him?
 
This is only perpetuating more distrust between you and the cops, to have this attitude.
No it doesn't. Cops have proven time after time that they are unworthy of trust an d that they are willing to lie to get away with murder.
 
Sorry pal but you are really struggling with reality.

Let me ask you this. If a man commits an act of murder, does law enforcement have the 'authority' to arrest him?

If they can prove he consented to their authority. They can't do this with me though. I never voted for the sheriff and haven't voted for more than a decade. I no longer consent to governance of any kind.
 
"Your papers, please." Used to be a slur against totalitarian regimes.

Now it's us too.

The people having things like a government issued ID is a problem and always has been.
 
That's just silly. Law enforcement isn't walking up randomly to citizens and questioning them. By his own admission, He is guilty of what he was being accused of and refused to cooperate with the police. It's akin to a cop pulling you over for going 5 mph over the speed limit and you refusing to give your license and registration.

I have a problem with that too. Why should I be required to have a license and registration to drive a car that is mine on a road that apparently I own? What is that about?

Hell, if I own the road then what exactly is the deal with speed limit laws? Why can't I drive however fast I damn well please?
 
If they can prove he consented to their authority. They can't do this with me though. I never voted for the sheriff and haven't voted for more than a decade. I no longer consent to governance of any kind.
Gotcha. You literally believe that even murderers should not be approached by law enforcement officers and arrested because they dont give their 'consent'.

OK...thats a wrap....
 
If they can prove he consented to their authority. They can't do this with me though. I never voted for the sheriff and haven't voted for more than a decade. I no longer consent to governance of any kind.

Heh, I've heard that before, typically from teens. I'd say you need to move far away from any other people to a country that has no law, but that just doesn't exist anymore. I'm sorry, you lose, you're just not going to have your way here.
 
Heh, I've heard that before, typically from teens. I'd say you need to move far away from any other people to a country that has no law, but that just doesn't exist anymore. I'm sorry, you lose, you're just not going to have your way here.

So what you're saying is that your consent to someones authority over you doesn't matter. Maybe the teens you're making fun of were right and you're wrong. Ever think of that?
 
If they can prove he consented to their authority. They can't do this with me though. I never voted for the sheriff and haven't voted for more than a decade. I no longer consent to governance of any kind.

Do you consider yourself a "Sovereign Citizen"?
 
Do you consider yourself a "Sovereign Citizen"?

If I did I wouldn't say it online since the government considers them terrorists.
 
If I did I wouldn't say it online since the government considers them terrorists.

I asked because a former friend of mine from years ago now pastors (if you want to call it that) a church that is eat up with this BS.
 
So what you're saying is that your consent to someones authority over you doesn't matter. Maybe the teens you're making fun of were right and you're wrong. Ever think of that?

That first is precisely what I'm saying. In the context of this discussion, that's the absolute reality of your situation. And it doesn't matter if they think they're right, or if you do, the outcome in reality will be the same. Like it or not you're part of a group, a society, whether you thought you joined or quit, just doesn't matter. The group you are part of, perhaps even in your case involuntarily, calls the shots. The only power or rights you have in that is to participate in the group's decisions.
 
That first is precisely what I'm saying. In the context of this discussion, that's the absolute reality of your situation. And it doesn't matter if they think they're right, or if you do, the outcome in reality will be the same. Like it or not you're part of a group, a society, whether you thought you joined or quit, just doesn't matter. The group you are part of, perhaps even in your case involuntarily, calls the shots. The only power or rights you have in that is to participate in the group's decisions.

I purposely don't particiate because I don't consent to their organization and I don't desire to be a member of it. I can't revoke my membership, WHICH I NEVER ASKED FOR without joining another association I don't want to be a member of. I'm effectively a slave.

The least the organization can do is give me an out without requiring me to join another organization.
 
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I purposely don't particiate because I don't consent to their organization. I have no desire to be a member of it, but I can't revoke it without joining another association I don't want to be a member of. I'm effectively a slave.

From your chosen perspective, yes, then you are. Tough cookies that's the life you were born into and it's not going to change. What can change is your perspective. Usually happens to those teens I mentioned as they grow up. But not always apparently.
 
From your chosen perspective, yes, then you are. Tough cookies that's the life you were born into and it's not going to change. What can change is your perspective. Usually happens to those teens I mentioned as they grow up. But not always apparently.

Reverse for me. When I was younger I was very much into governance, but after years of getting to know the nature of governance I came to realize I don't want to be a part of it. That governing a man requires consent and without that consent governance is nothing but evil. Hell, even with that consent it's pretty evil.
 
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No it doesn't. Cops have proven time after time that they are unworthy of trust an d that they are willing to lie to get away with murder.

No, they haven't. Most police officers do their job and do it because they care about people and justice and maintaining some peace. The vast majority of police are completely worthy of our trust. Unfortunately, people don't trust them because they judge police officers on the actions of a small few. Which is ironic since it is one the most common things that police officers are accused of doing that people say is the reason why they don't trust police officers.
 
I agree rogue. However add in the element of folks who don't like police because they are engaged in criminal activity and just don't think they ought to be stopped. Then there's the hypocritical asshats who think everyone else should be policed but they themselves should be exempt.
 
No, they haven't. Most police officers do their job and do it because they care about people and justice and maintaining some peace. The vast majority of police are completely worthy of our trust. Unfortunately, people don't trust them because they judge police officers on the actions of a small few. Which is ironic since it is one the most common things that police officers are accused of doing that people say is the reason why they don't trust police officers.

Before I transferred to get my masters I went to community college to save some money. They had some criminal justice courses there and guess who I saw enrolled? The dude that I sent to the hospital for giving me **** in high school. lol. That's pretty ****ing funny. He probably didn't know much else except bullying other people around though.
 
Before I transferred to get my masters I went to community college to save some money. They had some criminal justice courses there and guess who I saw enrolled? The dude that I sent to the hospital for giving me **** in high school. lol. That's pretty ****ing funny. He probably didn't know much else except bullying other people around though.

There are plenty of morons in criminal justice programs. That doesn't mean most of them go on to be in law enforcement. I had lots of idiots and jerks in my criminal justice classes too. Most of them didn't make it through the program. There were also a number of people who were there for those reasons I mentioned, because they legitimately wanted to help people.
 
It is about the reasoning. Bully's use violence or force to intimidate people for their personal gain. That is not what police officers do. They are enforcing the laws and trying to maintain public peace.

The police officers in this situation could not simply allow a person to walk away when they need information from that person. They had a report of someone trespassing. It is their job to find out the information of the case. Why the guy was there when he was told not to be by a representative of the owner of the property (the security guard) and who he is was relevant to the situation. He refused to give that information. This is hindering a police investigation. Then he tried multiple times to simply leave when he was being detained by the police, further hindering the investigation of the complaint. It doesn't matter if his children or any children were there at the time. That is irrelevant to the situation.

What is the definition of being detained by a police officer



This is what happened. He was being detained by the police because they had a "reasonable suspicion" that a crime had occurred because they had gotten called by the security officer. This means that they had a right to investigate that "crime", including detaining the "suspect". He starting walking away and never asked if he could leave. He should not have felt free to leave since he was told not to several times by the police. Had he not continued to try to leave, then he wouldn't have been arrested. Had he then not resisted arrest, he would not have been tasered.

Bullies are bullies to boost their frail self confidence. Nothing more. They are pathetic. It is what police officers do, not all of them, not all the time, but they do. The badge gives them balls.

To the rest I can only reiterate what I had said to Jerry, and that is we have a philosophical difference in how much liberty we give our authority.
 
Except for the fact that the security had also asked someone else to move as well, a woman, even after the security had asked the man to move at least once. She moved, he still didn't. But it still comes down to the fact that he was wrong. He should have left when asked by the security guard, and if that was wrong, report him. Then he should have cooperated with the police, and if they were wrong, file a complaint or even a suit. Instead, he was uncooperative the entire ordeal with the police, then acted the whole time as if they did something to him. He was trying to get "hassled".

Otherwise, why would he tell the cop he had to pick up his kids at 1000, then say they were already in that building, and then turn around and tell the cop that the kids weren't there yet when the police officer asked if he needed them to call someone to pick up his children? This is the part I don't understand. I don't get the discrepancy with the children. If you had to be there to pick up your children, or across the street, since that is where the preschool was, then why would you not need someone to pick them up a little later if you are being taken to jail? Why would he assume that someone else would take care of them if they had just seen him arrested?

Somehow, I doubt it was a smoke area, considering Minnesota has laws against smoking indoors, for most places at least (willing to bet the First National Bank Building is smoke free). Just because he ignored the security guard or more likely accused him of being racist, doesn't mean he didn't know that the area or at least those chairs were meant for employees.

In a lot of these videos you don't get the full story. You just see the confrontation. You don't know the individuals criminal history or a lot of times, the situation there in in the video either. All you see is the police at the height of the confrontation taking down the person. The large swath of police haters out there eat this up like candy. They are more then happy to jump to conclusions with little to no evidence. I personally think we should just simply vote to disarm and disband the police as much as people hate them. As much as people want to hinder them in doing their job. It's going to, at some point, get so bad that cops won't be able to do anything. It will be similar to what happens when someone passes out on the street and everyone walks around them because they are afraid of getting sued.
 
I never consented to the police authority over my person. Anything they do towards my person is therefore a BIG deal. My choices are either be aggressed upon by others, or ummm..

I don't know, do you know my other choices? Do I have any way to not be aggressed upon by police officers?

Well... I feel aggressed upon by red lights, stop signs and speed limits... but you don't see me going 150mph thru an intersection in a school zone. If you have a problem with the law, you have the right to have your voice heard, you have the right to vote people in that will change it, and you have the right to lobby congress. You also have the right to break the law, but the consequences are that you will be punished for it.

Again, the adult way to handle an officer that you believe is doing something wrong to you, is to file a complaint. If you decide to attack the officer, or become aggressive, that officer has every right to defend himself against you. He may ultimately be found guilty of a crime against you, but you might be dead. I don't know about you, but I would rather endure a few hours or days of unjustice then be laying in a wooden box in the ground. Hell, you might even get a big payday from it if you play your cards right. Best way to change the way police officers do business is to start suing the city. When they don't have money to do things they want to do, they will make sure that change happens.
 
Bullies are bullies to boost their frail self confidence. Nothing more. They are pathetic. It is what police officers do, not all of them, not all the time, but they do. The badge gives them balls.

To the rest I can only reiterate what I had said to Jerry, and that is we have a philosophical difference in how much liberty we give our authority.

Chez...I don't think you know what your talking about. Until you put on a uniform with a badge (or a target) on it, you have no idea. Cops HAVE TO have that authorative personality. They have firearms on them and to ensure the safety of the people they encounter, they have to be stern and clear with their orders so they can maintain control of the situation. When they are good at doing that, everyone survives the situation just fine.
 
Everyone involved acted inappropriately. There was no reason for the first officer to saunter up and demand ID of a citizen who was not breaking any laws, who was merely sitting in a public place waiting to pick up his kids.

That said, there was no reason for him to refuse to provide ID when asked, unless he'd just walked over to get his kids and didn't bother to grab his wallet. There's no law against being in public without ID, by the way.
People who show cops an ID just because they order them to are douchebags IMO. They give cops a sense that they are entitled to it.

If so many douchebags didn't just show the pigs their ID then they wouldn't get in a tissy-fit when people refuse to comply with their unlawful orders.
 
People who show cops an ID just because they order them to are douchebags IMO. They give cops a sense that they are entitled to it.

If so many douchebags didn't just show the pigs their ID then they wouldn't get in a tissy-fit when people refuse to comply with their unlawful orders.

Its not illegal for them to ASK you for your ID, but it is illegal for them to demand you show ID. There is a difference.
 
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