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Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

Yeeeeah. If a guy comes running toward my home with a cloth over his head and face showing only his eyes yoodling " ahhhhlalalalahhhhh" I'm popping the ****er in the head. Just sayin.
 
If I had to count on one or the other to know things about international affairs, I'd go with the DoD over Perry.
If I had to count on one or the other to not blow hype, I'd go with the DoD over Perry.

Sure the DoD makes mistakes.
But the DoD admits mistakes, holds people accountable for mistakes, and actively attempts to prevent the same mistakes from being made again.
I can't think of any politician who does the same.

We here in Texas (under the direction of Perry) are spending cash and actually helping to protect the US southern border, while the DoD is giving us 2 or more different stories about ISIS and not protecting the homeland against their threat.

Of course Obama has emasculated the DoD.
 
Why in the hell would ISIS members need to pose as Hispanic, payoff Mexican criminal organizations, and sneak across hundreds of miles of desert wasteland to get here via our southern border when easily hundreds of them hold British Passports and could fly here first class if they wanted??

Maybe because their passports would most likely be red-flagged?
 
Maybe because their passports would most likely be red-flagged?

Not necessarily. These people are not idiots. If they want to hit us, they are not going to take a British citizen and repatriate him to ISIS controlled areas prior to sending them here. They would just send those friendly to their cause directly from Britain to here. Or for that matter, being they have able to successfully recruit some Americans, why even send someone over. The point being is that given all the options available to ISIS, the notion that they would pose a bunch of middle easterners as Mexicans, pay off Mexican criminal organizations, and march across the desert to get here is absurd.
 
Not necessarily. These people are not idiots. If they want to hit us, they are not going to take a British citizen and repatriate him to ISIS controlled areas prior to sending them here. They would just send those friendly to their cause directly from Britain to here. Or for that matter, being they have able to successfully recruit some Americans, why even send someone over. The point being is that given all the options available to ISIS, the notion that they would pose a bunch of middle easterners as Mexicans, pay off Mexican criminal organizations, and march across the desert to get here is absurd.

"Absurd", is a big over-statement. A Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was believed to be absurd, as well. Never under-estimate your enemy.
 
How many Pentagon personel are actually on the ground, at the border?
Any proof that there are any ISIS people here via the Mexican border? Again, no.
 
How many Pentagon personel are actually on the ground, at the border?

Greetings, apdst. :2wave:

:agree: Perry said "might have" which never means absolute! I agree with Perry - I think people might be making a mistake by thinking that terrorists would use the same methods they used before - flying on an international airline, They are not stupid - they know that would be the first area we would check. They operate by stealth and surprise, and with the amount of illegals that have been entering in the past several months, I think it's very possible they might already be here - via our open Southern border!
 
Perry is just jerking peoples' chains with hollow rhetoric to rile them up.

I think it's very possible they might already be here - via our open Southern border!
Possible don't mean squat.
A zillion and one things are possible.

We cannot effectively plan for all possibilities--it'd be a stupid waste.
Given that resources in the real world are limited, we have to plan for what is probable.
 
How many Pentagon personel are actually on the ground, at the border?

Pentagon personnel tend to be civilians and their bosses are Obama's political appointments.

Now the uniform part of the military have been on the border and they see things differently than the Obama administration.

Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now ‘Existential’ Threat to U.S.

>" A top United States general in charge of protecting the southern border says he’s been unable to combat the steady flow of illegal drugs, weapons and people from Central America, and is looking to Congress for urgent help.

Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, commander of U.S. Southern Command, has asked Congress this year for more money, drones and ships for his mission – a request unlikely to be met. Since October, an influx of nearly 100,000 migrants has made the dangerous journey north from Latin America to the United States border. Most are children, and three-quarters of the unaccompanied minors have traveled thousands of miles from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

“In comparison to other global threats, the near collapse of societies in the hemisphere with the associated drug and [undocumented immigrant] flow are frequently viewed to be of low importance,” Kelly told Defense One. “Many argue these threats are not existential and do not challenge our national security. I disagree.”

In spring hearings before the Senate and House Armed Services Committees, Kelly said that budgets cuts are “severely degrading” the military’s ability to defend southern approaches to the U.S border. Last year, he said, his task force was unable to act on nearly 75 percent of illicit trafficking events. “I simply sit and watch it go by,” he said. But the potential threats are even greater. Kelly warned that neglect has created vulnerabilities that can be exploited by terrorist groups, describing a “crime-terror convergence” already seen in Lebanese Hezbollah’s involvement in the region..."<

Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now
 
TheDemSocialist said:
The Defense Department on Friday pushed back against Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s (R) claim that fighters from the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) might have entered the United States across its southern border.Perry, who is weighing another run for the president in 2016, made the assertion Thursday during a speech at the conservative Heritage Foundation.

"There's the obvious great concern that, because of the condition of the border from the standpoint of it not being secure, and us not knowing who is penetrating across, that individuals from ISIS or other terrorist states could be [crossing]," he said. "There's a very real possibility that they may have already used that [strategy]."
But the Pentagon’s top spokesman, Rear Adm. John Kirby, shot down that allegation.

“I've seen no indication that they are coming across the border with Mexico. We have no information that leads us to believe that,” he said on CNN’s "New Day."
Kirby said Pentagon leaders know the terrorist group does have “aspirations to hit western targets” and that the threat is something “we’ve got to take seriously, and we have to be ready for it.”

Rick Perry recently stated that ISIS might have entered the US through the Mexican border.... Well... It seems to just be more bull**** out of Perry's mouth

Leaked CBP Report Shows Entire World Exploiting Open US Border

People from 75 different countries have been captured at the border. ISIS has members from all over the world.

Since they don't catch but a small percentage, who knows who's here.

When people with partisan views want to :spin: a yarn to support a specific narrative, they really go all out! A closer look at the leaked CBP report puts things a little more in focus:

The report reveals the apprehension numbers ranging from 2010 through July 2014. It shows that most of the human smuggling from Syria and Albania into the U.S. comes through Central America. The report also indicates the routes individuals from North Africa and the Middle East take into the European Union, either to illegally migrate there or as a possible stop in their journey to the United States. The data are broken down further into the specific U.S. border sectors where the apprehensions and contact occurred.

In other words, there's NO concrete evidence to support Gov. Perry's accusation that members from the Syrian/Iraqi/Iranian terrorist group ISIS/ISIL are entering the U.S. via the U.S./Mexico border.
 
Re: Perry is just jerking peoples' chains with hollow rhetoric to rile them up.

Possible don't mean squat.
A zillion and one things are possible.

We cannot effectively plan for all possibilities--it'd be a stupid waste.
Given that resources in the real world are limited, we have to plan for what is probable.

I also used the word "might." If they are already here, this thread is a waste of our time, isn't it?

Greetings, Simon W. Moon. :2wave:
 
When people with partisan views want to :spin: a yarn to support a specific narrative, they really go all out! A closer look at the leaked CBP report puts things a little more in focus:



In other words, there's NO concrete evidence to support Gov. Perry's accusation that members from the Syrian/Iraqi/Iranian terrorist group ISIS/ISIL are entering the U.S. via the U.S./Mexico border.

So still no evidence. Just stating: "well most people that come here from Syria and Albania come from Central America".
 
Perry never said they already crossed, he said they could easily cross and be operating here. Now that is a possibility and considering the length of time the CBP has been preoccupied babysitting, its certainly easier. Its a valid concern. Do you believe that ISIS doesn't have the funding, planning or ambition to make the attempt?

That's the classic slippery slope argument, i.e., "if you don't do this, that is likely to happen". The crazy thing is folks really do believe the hype! Gov. Perry's clearly playing the illegal immigration card to wiggle his way back into the GOP presidential hopeful limelight and folks are buying it hook, line and sinker. He plays on the border security angle first using illegal alien crossings, then with terrorist. And as usually, people buy into the fear factor.

I won't discount there isn't reason to be concerned about terrorist coming into our country and forming sleeper cells in the process. After all, that's exactly what happened in 1993 and in 2001 (WTC bombing and 9/11, respectively) and if our intelligence and law enforcement agencies (local, state and federal) don't remain vigilant I won't deny that something like that couldn't happen again, but folks have to see Gov. Perry's words for what they are: insighting fear for political gain. It's nothing more than a ploy to play on your emotions without a shred of truth to his claim.

Be concerned, certainly, but DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
 
We know this, because Pentagon personel are patrolling the border?

Still watiting for your evidence or are you gonna settle on an ad hominiem?
 
Any proof that they are ISIS members? As the Pentagon said: "“I've seen no indication that they are coming across the border with Mexico. We have no information that leads us to believe that." Or are we just going to go with the argument that "well ISIS has members all over the world, so they could be". That augment is not evidence.

While I agree the second sentiment is hogwash, I find the first sentiment interesting. Two words in particular come to mind -- plausible deniability... IMHO, it looks like a carefully-worded statement that is designed to appease and soothe the general public, while at the same time saying, "We don't really have a freaking clue what's going on."

Why in the hell would ISIS members need to pose as Hispanic, payoff Mexican criminal organizations, and sneak across hundreds of miles of desert wasteland to get here via our southern border when easily hundreds of them hold British Passports and could fly here first class if they wanted?

They wouldn't, necessarily. But those are the "higher ups" in leadership positions, usually. The guy with the ability to travel first class isn't likely to be the one carrying out the actual act of terror. I'm pretty sure those positions are for the lowly grunts we see on the monkey bars in the desert. While it's pure speculation on my part, I would think exploiting the weakness of our southern border could be a pretty effective method for getting a fairly large group of those people into the US in one fell swoop.



Bottom line here is I find it interesting that Pentagon released this as the official statement when the comments from Secretary Hagel and General Dempsey have talked up the threat level of this group as well as their motivations and sophistication. Again, goes back to simply asking how can the Pentagon definitively know that? Are they tracking every person crossing the border? Does the intelligence account for every member of ISIS?

How can the Pentagon know that they have no evidence of ISIS crossing into the US?
They would ask their personnel tasked with following ISIS I suppose.
How would you set about ascertaining the knowledge that your organization has?

IIRC, I read that as of now our "intelligence" capability (as in the real world, live, first-person kind) is seriously lacking in that part of the world. It was one of the reasons they underestimated ISIS in the first place.



My office has politics, but we're not politicians.
The DoD is not a politician. [What a wierd-ass thing to have to say]

No, simply pointing out that he is a press secretary. He's handed the talking points by Pentagon leadership. This set of talking points was likely directed to questions that would likely to arise from Perry's statement. You don't think the Pentagon is politics free....do you?

I would argue those at the top of the DoD food-chain are, in fact, politicians.
politician: definition of politician in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

Particularly in an organization structured like this :
US Deparment of Defense Organization Charts




Not necessarily. These people are not idiots. If they want to hit us, they are not going to take a British citizen and repatriate him to ISIS controlled areas prior to sending them here. They would just send those friendly to their cause directly from Britain to here.

There are millions of people that hold dual passports, not to mention three or more, legitimately... It's not uncommon to travel on them all, depending on the destination.


How many Pentagon personel are actually on the ground, at the border?

Very few, I'd imagine. Even then, I highly doubt the Pentagon personnel are the ones standing in the desert heat, checking credentials on a regular basis...
 
We know this, because Pentagon personel are patrolling the border?

Not they're job. However, in a broader scope as part of defensive strategy, DoD is kept abreast of threats to the U.S. both foreign and domestic via our intelligence agencies, i.e., FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS which CBP is under. (See CBP's Organization chart; and for those who doubt the connection between CBP, DHS and DoD, see DHS' Organization chart.)
 
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Pentagon personnel tend to be civilians and their bosses are Obama's political appointments.

Now the uniform part of the military have been on the border and they see things differently than the Obama administration.

Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now ‘Existential’ Threat to U.S.

>" A top United States general in charge of protecting the southern border says he’s been unable to combat the steady flow of illegal drugs, weapons and people from Central America, and is looking to Congress for urgent help.

Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, commander of U.S. Southern Command, has asked Congress this year for more money, drones and ships for his mission – a request unlikely to be met. Since October, an influx of nearly 100,000 migrants has made the dangerous journey north from Latin America to the United States border. Most are children, and three-quarters of the unaccompanied minors have traveled thousands of miles from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

“In comparison to other global threats, the near collapse of societies in the hemisphere with the associated drug and [undocumented immigrant] flow are frequently viewed to be of low importance,” Kelly told Defense One. “Many argue these threats are not existential and do not challenge our national security. I disagree.”

In spring hearings before the Senate and House Armed Services Committees, Kelly said that budgets cuts are “severely degrading” the military’s ability to defend southern approaches to the U.S border. Last year, he said, his task force was unable to act on nearly 75 percent of illicit trafficking events. “I simply sit and watch it go by,” he said. But the potential threats are even greater. Kelly warned that neglect has created vulnerabilities that can be exploited by terrorist groups, describing a “crime-terror convergence” already seen in Lebanese Hezbollah’s involvement in the region..."<

Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now

This can be expected when the people actually doing the work are ignored by those who think they know everything better! That type of thinking is quickly rooted out in the business world, since they have to be profitable or go bankrupt, but in government - meh - not so much. :thumbdown:
 
I would argue those at the top of the DoD food-chain are, in fact, politicians.
politician: definition of politician in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

Particularly in an organization structured like this :
US Deparment of Defense Organization Charts
You are welcome to argue that. But it's still equivocation.

As I noted before one could make the case in much the same way as you have above that al Qaeda is a tea drinking social club
But calling aQ a tea society is stupid, useless, and wrong.
It's also equivocation.

Equivocation is an effective seducer of netizens who are motivated to believe.

As an fyi for everyone
Pretty much any time you have to resort to citing a dictionary to show that two different things are actually the same, you're using equivocation.
 
But the Pentagon’s top spokesman, Rear Adm. John Kirby, shot down that allegation.

“I've seen no indication that they are coming across the border with Mexico. We have no information that leads us to believe that,” he said on CNN’s "New Day."

Not sure of the value of Kirby's statement, in an August 26, 2014 interview, he was also unaware of Qatar's support for terrorist groups and the the State Department's Country Reports on Terrorism 2013 which rated Qatar as "a significant terrorist financing risk".

Q: Are you concerned that Qatar had supported terrorist groups?

ADM. KIRBY: I've seen those reports. And if the reports are true, absolutely, it's concerning.
http://www.defense.gov/Transcripts/Transcript.aspx?TranscriptID=5495

However, Qatar’s monitoring of private individuals’ and charitable associations’ contributions to foreign entities remained inconsistent. Qatari-based terrorist fundraisers, whether acting as individuals or as representatives of other groups, were a significant terrorist financing risk and may have supported terrorist groups in countries such as Syria. The ascension of the new Emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani did not result in any political changes that would affect the Government of Qatar’s ability to counter terrorism.
Country Reports on Terrorism 2013 Middle East and North Africa Overview
 
I wasn't aware that anyone from the DoD was actually guarding the border. Does the DoD have any evidence of corn prices going up or even unemployment going down? I'd like to hear the DoD's observations on all aspects of government action/inaction to see what they do and do not have evidence.
 
I wasn't aware that anyone from the DoD was actually guarding the border. Does the DoD have any evidence of corn prices going up or even unemployment going down? I'd like to hear the DoD's observations on all aspects of government action/inaction to see what they do and do not have evidence.

That was my first thought too. The DOD has nobody on the border, WTF do they know?

But the border is only one concern given the ability of ISIS to recruit fighters who live here. We now have reports of two Americans who died in recent days fighting for ISIS in Syria. How did they hookup with ISIS? How did they get to Syria?

I would very much like to see an effort to keep the US from turning into the UK where ISIS openly recruits in London and 1500 citizens have joined ISIS in Syria.
 
Read more: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border | TheHill

Rick Perry recently stated that ISIS might have entered the US through the Mexican border.... Well... It seems to just be more bull**** out of Perry's mouth [/FONT][/COLOR]

While Rick Perry is full of **** most of the time, THIS time he makes a valid point (Valid in that ISIS COULD or maybe even has entered the country). How do we know there hasn't been? I mean if we can't stop THOUSANDS from entereing the U.S. illegally how do we know NONE of them are ISIS or for that matter any other terrorist, cartel, drug runner group?
 
I wasn't aware that anyone from the DoD was actually guarding the border. Does the DoD have any evidence of corn prices going up or even unemployment going down? I'd like to hear the DoD's observations on all aspects of government action/inaction to see what they do and do not have evidence.

It's a catch 22 here IMO. If the DoD can monitor people to KNOW they are not from ISIS, then they are intentially letting illegals into this country which should be a felony. If they can't monitor illegals coming into the country, then they cannot confirm that ISIS or any other terrorist, cartel, drug runner, etc. has entered the country which would make Perry's comments valid. Well valid in the sense we don't know if ISIS has entered or not.
 
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