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Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

maquiscat said:
Failed word twisting has failed. Deuce and RN are not saying that the institution of marriage itself has always been f'd up, but that a marriage that ends in divorce is f'd up, in one manner or another. Some of it stems from individuals just jumping into marriage without really getting to know their potential spouse at all really. If you meet, propose and marry someone within a single calender year, you might as well start planning the divorce settlement (statistically speaking). Then there are those where one partner is abusive but had hidden it for years or escalated it beyond the other's endurance. These marriages are indeed f'd up. That doesn't lead to an automatic conclusion of the institution being f'd up. Divorce is not the cause of anything regarding the institution of marriage. It is the symptom, the end result. You are putting the cart before the horse.
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If half of all marriages FAIL, the institution is a fail.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Deuce said:
Yes, forced. Until relatively recently, divorce was difficult to obtain. You basically had to prove adultery or abuse. Not easy.

Divorce is a result of a broken family. Not a cause.
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Divorce is FAILED marriage, and presumably, you're suggesting that the divorce rate would always have been 50%, and I maintain that anything that fails half of the time is UNSUCCESSFUL. So perhaps humans should try something other. IOW there is no sanctity to something with a 50% fail rate.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

CaptainCourtesy said:
NP, you think anyone who disagrees with you is a lefty. I've seen you call some OBVIOUS right wingers, lefties, just because they disagreed with you.
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On one thing no less!
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

roguenuke said:
It has always had its flaws, but those are outweighed easily by its advantages, especially now.
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50% failure rate would be at odds with that.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Ceist said:
Apparently you believe in a flat disc earth with a dome over it and underneath was Sheol. That's what the writers of the OT described.

View attachment 67172161
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True enough, and Yahweh inspired Job with a description of the earth as flat, with CORNERS!! Funny enough, Sheol (hell) in your image looks like oil reserves.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

roguenuke said:
I believe our relationships have changed. For instance, we marry today much more commonly for love or attraction than for family honor or status or benefit.

But the more relevant change, in my opinion, in how it is advantageous to marry has come to our laws. We have divorce court which actually concerns itself with dividing property between both partners in a marriage. We actually consider (or at least are supposed to) which situation is best for children when it comes to a divorce, living with each parent half the time or living mainly with one parent, and the other providing monetary support and visiting the child or the other parent having no contact. There are also protections of the spouses from other family members, particularly upon a death, and these are legal protections for both spouses. There are also protections of the spouse from the other for abusive situations.
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IOW, in our modern disposable society, we have made termination of marriage infinitely easier. Seems that vows are not honoured half the time. That if there was any "sanctity" to marriage, its stepped on half the time, and that its a rather anaemic institution, and not likely to be harmed by same sex marriages.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Montecresto said:
50% failure rate would be at odds with that.
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No it wouldn't. You can't prove that it wouldn't have been that level in the past had the rules been more laxed.

Making mistakes is part of life. Hopefully people are allowed to learn from those mistakes. You can't learn from mistakes that you aren't legally allowed to correct. If people aren't happy in a relationship with each other and can't make it work, then the mistake was probably getting together in the first place, and they can't correct that mistake if they are not allowed to legally separate from each other, legally divorce.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Logicman said:
It's quite apparent you've never really researched the issues. You guys just make the same, sophomoric arguments ad nauseum.

Does the Bible Teach a Flat Earth
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This is the terminology used to build things with straight lines, and corners, and not spheres! The authors of the OT, believing at the time that the earth was flat (remember, its only in the last 600 years or so that that was recognised to be wrong) would naturally be describing it as such.


4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,


Job 38:4-6;
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

roguenuke said:
No it wouldn't. You can't prove that it wouldn't have been that level in the past had the rules been more laxed.

Making mistakes is part of life. Hopefully people are allowed to learn from those mistakes. You can't learn from mistakes that you aren't legally allowed to correct. If people aren't happy in a relationship with each other and can't make it work, then the mistake was probably getting together in the first place, and they can't correct that mistake if they are not allowed to legally separate from each other, legally divorce.
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Neither of us can prove it either way, but if it would have been as high, that would support the notion that its always been a failed institution. What else in life is considered successful with a 50% failure rate?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Montecresto said:
Neither of us can prove it either way, but if it would have been as high, that would support the notion that its always been a failed institution. What else in life is considered successful with a 50% failure rate?
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Baseball
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Montecresto said:
IOW, in our modern disposable society, we have made termination of marriage infinitely easier. Seems that vows are not honoured half the time. That if there was any "sanctity" to marriage, its stepped on half the time, and that its a rather anaemic institution, and not likely to be harmed by same sex marriages.
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People change. That is part of life. People make mistakes, which is also part of being human. There is no "sanctity" to marriage, and there really wasn't much in the past. People used marriage even in the past for less than honorable reasons. These were simply not recognized back then, and many want to romanticize marriage in the past.

I have noticed that you have failed to acknowledge that women could be involuntarily committed by their husbands in the past for offenses as benign as talking back to or disobeying their husbands, refusing to do housework, or even just thinking for herself, wanting to make her own decisions. You have also failed to acknowledge the fact that women didn't have many choices in the past, even the recent past, particularly if they weren't married, especially if they were divorced, a fact that kept women in marriages that were bad. Heck, my grandparents didn't love each other, at least not most of their marriage. My entire childhood they had separate rooms, separate lives, went to separate churches, rarely rode in the same car together, never showed affection to one another. Yet they were married all that time. I was a child and noticed there was a problem there. My other grandparents who actually were divorced were more civil to each other, showed more affection toward each other than my married grandparents.

It is a good thing that termination of marriage is easier. It means that people can leave their situation and work to be happier. Does this sometimes work out bad for one of the two? Yes, but staying in an unloving marriage is most likely worse for that other person who feels the marriage is broken and can't get it fixed. Plus, the fact that divorce is easier also means that people have more incentive to actually work on their relationships if both of them want to really be in that relationship.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

CaptainCourtesy said:
Townhall.com is a conservative website... meaning that conservatives frequent it... meaning that any results will be biased and irrelevant.
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All opinions are biased. But definitely not irrelevant. It would be a logical fallacy to call results irrelevant simply because the sample skewed biased in some direction. It is relevant within that context.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Montecresto said:
Neither of us can prove it either way, but if it would have been as high, that would support the notion that its always been a failed institution. What else in life is considered successful with a 50% failure rate?
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Relationships end. That is a part of life. You deem it failure. I see it as an experience. I've had several relationships end. They never reached the point where I wanted to marry those guys, but they were still relationships. That doesn't mean that my failure rate is 90+% in relationships. It simply means that I've had several relationship experiences. I learned from most of them. I learn things all the time in my own marriage. It could end. I think my husband and I have a good chance of making it last because we actually talk to each other and we want our relationship to work. We have similar feelings about how to make our relationship work and what we want in the relationship, about the important things, and the things that we disagree on are unimportant enough that we can let it go to "agree to disagree".

Having a child can have a 30% failure rate (going off of the rate of miscarriages). The failure rate for the driving test is over 50%, yet we still let people drive and even retake the test many times after they fail.

Driving test repeat candidates more likely to fail - Telegraph

46% of people taking their first driving test pass, which means 54% fail.

And this is wonderful. So many great people failed at so many things. So what?

http://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/OnFailingG.html
 
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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

CaptainCourtesy said:
The resurrection has been debunked. Your lack of faith and dishonesty will undoubtedly cause you great pain in the afterlife. Repent now.
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The whole bloody religion has been debunked, that doesn't stop the delusional wankers who still cling to it.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

So now we have pivoted quite nicely on to the real issue why SSM is so toxic to so many...Religion the real debate begins.

If homosexuality and the subsequent issue of SSM is abhorrent is a sin, and hence should be illegal, what about divorce? Sex of any form, gay or straight outside of wedlock seems to ignite the torch of Hellfire & Damnation.

Trouble is, once you go down that road, 80% of the country is at any given time committing some immoral act. What was the phrase used in an earlier post 'depraved debauchery', great phrase, so where do we begin?

A laundry list of depraved debauch acts to immediately be outlawed, based on 'their' version of religion? I think a lot of the posters here who have an extremely narrow view might do quite nicely in a country where Sharia law is practiced. No chance of these homo's hooking up there...or the women showing their faces, sex out of wedlock, women being alone with a non family male.

Sounds idyllic
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

roguenuke said:
I believe our relationships have changed. For instance, we marry today much more commonly for love or attraction than for family honor or status or benefit.

But the more relevant change, in my opinion, in how it is advantageous to marry has come to our laws. We have divorce court which actually concerns itself with dividing property between both partners in a marriage. We actually consider (or at least are supposed to) which situation is best for children when it comes to a divorce, living with each parent half the time or living mainly with one parent, and the other providing monetary support and visiting the child or the other parent having no contact. There are also protections of the spouses from other family members, particularly upon a death, and these are legal protections for both spouses. There are also protections of the spouse from the other for abusive situations.
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You have a point, relationships have changed. I couldn't but be reminded of Pride & Prejudice, where the sole effort to marry of the daughters was simply one of financial security.

I have been married twice, last one 20 years, but people change and thankfully we both recognized that and moved on pretty amicably. Both my two sets of Grandparents lived into reasonably old age. One pair loathed the sight of each other, the other pair simply led separate lives. But they were traditional Catholics and the very thought of divorce was impossible.

Me, me ex-wife and our kids, without the baggage of religious dogma have a far better life
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Navy Pride said:
I only calls em as I sees em...........Why are you so ashamed of being a left winger. Your posts give you away.
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I'm not a left winger and I support same sex marriage as long as nobody is forced to officiate at them.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Scrabaholic said:
I'm not a left winger and I support same sex marriage as long as nobody is forced to officiate at them.
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That is and oxymoron my left wing friend..
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Montecresto said:
Neither of us can prove it either way, but if it would have been as high, that would support the notion that its always been a failed institution. What else in life is considered successful with a 50% failure rate?
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Batting average? Sorry I couldn't help myself.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Logicman said:
It's quite apparent you've never really researched the issues. You guys just make the same, sophomoric arguments ad nauseum.

Does the Bible Teach a Flat Earth
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I've researched it. It's quite apparent that you haven't. The author of the opinion piece you linked just changes the meaning of Hebrew words to suit his beliefs, ignores historical evidence, and argues against a strawman. It's off topic, so if you want to 'discuss' this further, start a new thread and I'll happily take apart his claims.
 
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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I don't if gay marriage is legalized or not because I'm not gay.
 
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