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Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I wouldn't mind seeing a law against adultery.

Perhaps a scarlet letter? Shall we burn adulterers at the stake? You do realize 1/2 of your fellow Christians would immediately be criminals?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Yup, that sort of thing can happen if you own your own business and publicly voice your disapproval of an entire group of people. The customers were no more obliged to stay quiet about it any more than the baker was obliged to open his mouth.

Doesn't seem right that they couldn't respect his beliefs. That's the problem with the Homosexual lobby and the Left in general...they don't respect anyone's beliefs but their own.

FWIW I don't think being a homosexual or SSM is a belief. More like a condition.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Perhaps a scarlet letter? Shall we burn adulterers at the stake? You do realize 1/2 of your fellow Christians would immediately be criminals?

So be it. From what I hear monogamy it's that popular in SSM either.

We took our vows before God and breaking those is one of the more hurtful things in one's life.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Doesn't seem right that they couldn't respect his beliefs.

Doesn't seem right he couldn't respect their beliefs. And it cost him his bakery. Smart move on his part.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

So be it.

WTF?


From what I hear monogamy it's that popular in SSM either..

I have seen reports that suggest the divorce rate among SSM is 1/2 that of Christians. Frankly I believe it.

.
We took our vows before God and breaking those is one of the more hurtful things in one's life.

So do many gay people. So what.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I am a denier of what? Are seriously going to quote a right wing whack job site like American Stinker? Hilarious.

You quote American Stinker as a credible source? Seriously?

Let's try something unbiased instead.

Little-Known U.S. Document Proclaims America's Government is Secular - The Early America Review, Summer 1997
Oh yeah, that's seems official.

Freemasonry is an organization that doesn't give up it's secrets. My maternal grandfather was a 32 degree Mason and wouldn't tell me squat. He also went to church.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

SSM was against his Biblical beliefs, that should have been reason enough to say no. The homosexual couple(s) should have respected that and gone elsewhere but, they refused and made a fuss.

And if was an interracial couple would you be OK with that?
What about if it was a bar mitzvah?
Wiccan celebration?
Muslim wedding?
Midget wedding?

If you are ok with all that then you have no problem with segregationist policies.
Perhaps we should have no-homosexual restaurants, busses, airplanes, ferries.
Do you think someone should be able to refuse to hire someone because they are black or hispanic or homosexual or bisexual? What if the person in question is white, heterosexual but a Mormon or atheist? How would you even know? Could you fire them if you only found out later on?

What if you agree to provide a service such as a wedding cake and sign a contract, then 2 days before the wedding find out it is for a SS couple, can you void the contract based on your religious apprehensions?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

The SCOTUS shouldn't be ruling on law based on a "moral conscience". They should be ruling on the law BASED ON THE LAW.

I agree. That's the main problem with the idea of "substantive due process." It involves judges in overturning laws that majorities--sometimes very large ones--saw fit to make, just because those judges happened to believe that what a law did was wrong. That necessarily places any substantive due process decision on shaky ground, because it elevates the moral views of a handful of judges over the moral views of millions of voters. Some people think that is deeply undemocratic and makes these decisions nothing but arbitrary fiat--" because we say so."

Roe v. Wade was a substantive due process decision. The Supreme Court, keenly aware of that, has tried very hard to avoid that phrase in its "gay" decisions. If it ever gins up a constitutional right to same-sex marriage, as it did with abortion, it will use a somewhat different rationale.

Most likely, this rationale would be that a state marriage law which excluded same-sex partners was motivated by what the Court calls "animus." That means the only reason for passing it was bare hostility toward homosexuals as a group. But disadvantaging a particular group of people out of nothing more than a desire to harm them can never be a legitimate interest of government. And any law that is not at least rationally related to achieving a legitimate government interest violates due process, equal protection, or both.

The 14th, created via a constitutional process, established equal protection under the law.

And yet laws often subject similarly situated people to wildly disparate treatment without violating the Equal Protection Clause. When it comes to state economic regulations, that is more the rule than the exception. How the guarantee of equal protection applies, how it applies to various groups, and in what context, is a complex area of constitutional law.

Currently, I believe there to be a clear unequal application of what can be done under the law as it pertains to gender. Thus far I've never had anyone give me an answer that sufficiently convinces me this unequal application substantially relates to serving an important state interest. As such, in my opinion, our current laws are unconstitutional.

From your use of the language of the "intermediate" standard of review the Court has used in sex discrimination cases, it sounds like you would apply that standard to marriage laws that exclude same-sex couples. The main problem I see with that approach is that these laws don't discriminate against anyone on the basis of sex. They no more allow two men to marry each other than they allow two women to marry each other.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Oh yeah, that's seems official.

I agree.

Bibliography.

Borden, Morton, "Jews, Turks, and Infidels," The University of North Carolina Press, 1984

Boston, Robert, "Why the Religious Right is Wrong About Separation of Church & State, "Prometheus Books, 1993

Boston, F. Andrews, et al, "The Writings of George Washington," (12 Vols.), Charleston, S.C., 1833-37

Fitzpatrick, John C., ed., "The Diaries of George Washington, 1748-1799," Houghton Mifflin Company: Published for the Mount Vernon Ladies Association of the Union, 1925

Gay, Kathlyn, "Church and State,"The Millbrook Press," 1992

Handy, Robert, T., "A History of the Churches in U.S. and Canada," New York: Oxford University Press, 1977

Hayes, Judith, "All those Christian Presidents," [The American Rationalist, March/April 1997]

Kock, Adrienne, ed., "The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society," New York: George Braziller, 1965

Mapp, Jr, Alf J., "Thomas Jefferson," Madison Books, 1987

Middlekauff, Robert, "The Glorious Cause," Oxford University Press, 1982

Miller, Hunter, ed., "Treaties and other International Acts of the United States of America," Vol. 2, Documents 1-40: 1776-1818, United States Government Printing Office, Washington: 1931

Peterson, Merrill D., "Thomas Jefferson Writings," The Library of America, 1984

Remsburg, John E., "Six Historic Americans," The Truth Seeker Company, New York

Robinson, John J., "Born in Blood," M. Evans & Company, New York, 1989

Roche, O.I.A., ed, "The Jefferson Bible: with the Annotated Commentaries on Religion of Thomas Jefferson," Clarkson N. Potter, Inc., 1964

Seldes, George, ed., "The Great Quotations," Pocket Books, New York, 1967

Sweet, William W., "Revivalism in America, its origin, growth and decline," C. Scribner's Sons, New York, 1944

Woodress, James, "A Yankee's Odyssey, the Life of Joel Barlow," J. P. Lippincott Co., 1958

Encyclopedia sources:

Common law: Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 6, "William Benton, Publisher, 1969

Declaration of Independence: MicroSoft Encarta 1996 Encyclopedia, MicroSoft Corp., Funk & Wagnalls Corporation.

In God We Trust: MicroSoft Encarta 1996 Encyclopedia, MicroSoft Corp., Funk & Wagnalls Corporation.

Pledge of Allegiance: Academic American Encyclopedia, Vol. 15, Grolier Incorporated, Danbury, Conn., 1988

Special thanks to Ed Buckner, Robert Boston, Selena Brewington and Lion G. Miles, for help in providing me with source materials.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Doesn't seem right that they couldn't respect his beliefs. That's the problem with the Homosexual lobby and the Left in general...they don't respect anyone's beliefs but their own.

Do you respect my atheist beliefs, and my right to be an atheist and not follow Christian law? If your answer to that is yes, do you see how pushing for a greater theocratic rule based on Christian dogma would infringe on my beliefs?

FWIW I don't think being a homosexual or SSM is a belief. More like a condition.

Well, technically gay people might actually agree with that...kind of.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I wouldn't mind seeing a law against adultery.

Adultery. Okay. Anything else?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

SSM was against his Biblical beliefs, that should have been reason enough to say no. The homosexual couple(s) should have respected that and gone elsewhere but, they refused and made a fuss.


Didn't you recently say you were going to give up on this topic and just let "god sort it all out"?

Are you a liar as well as a sinner?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Adultery. Okay. Anything else?
Which do you think are not already covered?
Murder.... Check

Stealing...Check

lying.... check (sometimes)

misleading testimony...check

Kidnapping... check

Rape...check
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

He's ok with burning adulterers at the stake as well apparently.

I never said that.

Lying to the court or the FBI will get you a few years...that seems fair.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Didn't you recently say you were going to give up on this topic and just let "god sort it all out"?

Are you a liar as well as a sinner?

You must have sucked me back in.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Which do you think are not already covered?
Murder.... Check

Stealing...Check

lying.... check (sometimes)

misleading testimony...check

Kidnapping... check

Rape...check

Okay, so just adultery then? The others you mentioned are illegal pretty much everywhere I'm sure (bearing false witness is illegal in court of law, can nullify legal contracts and will get you fired from most jobs. Lying can also damage friendships and trust in general, so it's a crime that pretty much carries its own punishment). In fact, those laws have probably all been in place for the better part of civilized human history.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

What do you care? It's none of your business. You just want it to be.

When there are so many dragging the boat to the bottom, it's everyone's business.

And if that's the case, why are you still here? Is it your business?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Which do you think are not already covered?
Murder.... Check

Stealing...Check

lying.... check (sometimes)

misleading testimony...check

Kidnapping... check

Rape...check

As a reasonable person, I think the Supreme Court should immediately hold all state laws criminalizing those acts unconstitutional. Equal protection means just that, and all this discrimination against rapists and thieves has been going on way too long. What about their rights? Besides, basing all these laws on xtian dogma is just more creeping theocracy. When the Flounders said strict separation of church and state in the constitutional declaration, that's just what they meant!!!
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Okay, so just adultery then? The others you mentioned are illegal pretty much everywhere I'm sure (bearing false witness is illegal in court of law, and will get you fired from most jobs. Lying can also damage friendships and trust in general, so it's a crime that pretty much carries its own punishment). In fact, those laws have probably all been in place for the better part of civilized human history.

They've been against God's law for a lot longer.

BTW: what are Atheist beliefs?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I never said that.

Well, here's what you did say...

Originally Posted by Top Cat
Perhaps a scarlet letter? Shall we burn adulterers at the stake? You do realize 1/2 of your fellow Christians would immediately be criminals?

Originally Posted by WCH
So be it. From what I hear monogamy it's that popular in SSM either.

Sure looks like it to me.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

As a reasonable person, I think the Supreme Court should immediately hold all state laws criminalizing those acts unconstitutional. Equal protection means just that, and all this discrimination against rapists and thieves has been going on way too long. What about their rights? Besides, basing all these laws on xtian dogma is just more creeping theocracy. When the Flounders said strict separation of church and state in the constitutional declaration, that's just what they meant!!!

There would be some purging going on immediately afterwards. :)
 
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