Lawyer: Police Haven't Talked To Michael Brown Shooting Witness

JasperL said:

Well, what you did is call him a thug, then accused him of telling a story that someone coached him to say. That's also known as lying. If his story is the truth as he recalls it, and you believe it, then why would you assume that a story truthfully told has been coached? Few of us faced with a camera are eloquent, but you've taken someone who can't tell a story on camera as smoothly as a news anchor and assumed because he can't that he's lying or repeating a coached account. It's funny in a sad/pathetic way.

And now you're telling me based on nothing more concrete than his language that he's 'no angel.' How many ways can you negatively stereotype Johnson? Are you shooting for a record of baseless allegations of character flaws in one thread?



You're really making no sense. The kid is a thug whose story has been coached, but you believe him? OK, I do too. But because I do, I must assume his story is his and an accurate account of what happened (as best he can recall) and not the story concocted by a slick lawyer for some nefarious purpose.

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You make so many assumptions in that post that it's hard to detail one by one. YOUR assumptions are all on you. He was so obviously couched. He presents his account like a professional talking head. I did not assume that his account was made up, but I do think details have been smoothed over to make himself and Brown to sound totally innocent in the matter. For instance, I don't think they accidentally kicked the cruiser door closed.

What makes no sense to you is that Brown and perhaps Johnson probably weren't as angelic as you're making them out to be in this situation. That doesn't make Brown any less a victim of murder. However wrong the officer was, and he was very wrong to kill Brown, Brown, and maybe Johnson, played a part here.

Fenton said:

LOL !

You can't be this naive.

Yea sure, those were "residents " rioting and burning down other people's property. ...

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What do you want me to call them but 'residents?' And some were rioting and burning property - the vast majority were not. But I see you're into stereotyping them all like clownboy.

Those "residents " are making the assumption that this Cops guilty and you seem to agree.

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That's fair enough, because the cops have given us no reason to think the shooter isn't guilty. It's certainly suspect that they apparently believe a guy standing two feet away when the first shot was fired has nothing to add to the 'investigation' don't you think?

But the reverse is also true - you're assuming the cop is innocent, which is why you labeled a trial that hasn't happened after charges that haven't been filed will be a show trial with a guilty verdict regardless of the facts of the case. I'm not making any assumption except that at this point the shooting looks terrible, and every hour there is no more information released to the public about it, the dirtier this incident looks.

What they EXPECT is a GUILTY verdict which pretty much backs my assertion that the coming trial will be just a technicality to a eventual guilty verdict

If one is not delivered, these " residents " will have another reason to destroyx rob and loot.

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Perhaps, but you're doing a nice job of baseless expectations of the worst from the community (or should I say gang of thugs? better?).

JasperL said:

I 'admit' he was a witness? No, it's just a fact that I accept.

And Johnson didn't admit the two black men accidentally kicked the door closed, he says the officer tried to open it, and the door bounced off of Johnson. And you blame Brown for running after the cop shoots him? Why? What would you do? Stand around and hope the cop who shot you (for no reason if you believe Brown) doesn't shoot you again?

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So, the door bouncing off Johnson wasn't an accident? Wow. And yes I blame Brown for running and failing to comply, you conveniently leave out the struggle in the police car. Not sure if you're operating from a mental block or just trying to repair your argument.

JasperL said:

And is it OK to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back? That's a justified use of deadly force, on an unarmed suspect?

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And where did I say that?

JasperL said:

What do you want me to call them but 'residents?' And some were rioting and burning property - the vast majority were not. But I see you're into stereotyping them all like clownboy.



That's fair enough, because the cops have given us no reason to think the shooter isn't guilty. It's certainly suspect that they apparently believe a guy standing two feet away when the first shot was fired has nothing to add to the 'investigation' don't you think?

But the reverse is also true - you're assuming the cop is innocent, which is why you labeled a trial that hasn't happened after charges that haven't been filed will be a show trial with a guilty verdict regardless of the facts of the case. I'm not making any assumption except that at this point the shooting looks terrible, and every hour there is no more information released to the public about it, the dirtier this incident looks.



Perhaps, but you're doing a nice job of baseless expectations of the worst from the community (or should I say gang of thugs? better?).

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Baseless assumptions ?

Pot meet kettle.

Everyone of your post in this thread is loaded with baseless and subjective assumptions.

Let me give you an example of objectivity.

Niether side of the story can be corroborated 100 percent at this point.

The only thing that can be confirmed is a cop killed a black teenager and "residents " responded with protest and riots.

clownboy said:

You make so many assumptions in that post that it's hard to detail one by one. YOUR assumptions are all on you. He was so obviously couched. He presents his account like a professional talking head. I did not assume that his account was made up, but I do think details have been smoothed over to make himself and Brown to sound totally innocent in the matter. For instance, I don't think they accidentally kicked the cruiser door closed.

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On what basis is his story "so obviously couched." (as an aside, you mean coached I think - how does one "couch" another person. Is there a Head Couch in that black community? Is this where they sleep or where they sit and watch TV?

What makes no sense to you is that Brown and perhaps Johnson probably weren't as angelic as you're making them out to be in this situation. That doesn't make Brown any less a victim of murder. However wrong the officer was, and he was very wrong to kill Brown, Brown, and maybe Johnson, played a part here.

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I've never asserted those two were 'angels' - whatever that means to you. But what you haven't said with any detail is what 'part' they played? Unless Brown grabbed the cop, or lunged at him, the cop had no business grabbing his neck or his shirt or escalating something as trivial as not walking on the sidewalk into a violent encounter.

clownboy said:

So, the door bouncing off Johnson wasn't an accident? Wow. And yes I blame Brown for running and failing to comply, you conveniently leave out the struggle in the police car. Not sure if you're operating from a mental block or just trying to repair your argument.

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He'd just been SHOT in the CHEST. It's hard to be rational at that point. And it's the alleged struggle in the police car. If you believe Johnson, you're blaming Brown for struggling after the cop grabs him by the neck then shirt and tries to drag him toward the window of the car.

And where did I say that?

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You said, "I blame the officer for coming up on a surrendered Brown and murdering him." What you didn't say was you blamed the officer for shooting him in the back as he ran away, which is why I asked the question whether that shooting was justified (if the facts show it happened, as has been alleged).

JasperL said:

On what basis is his story "so obviously couched." (as an aside, you mean coached I think - how does one "couch" another person. Is there a Head Couch in that black community? Is this where they sleep or where they sit and watch TV?

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You finally find a point, but you won't be able to repair your argument on the back of a single misspelling. I did in fact intend to type "coach". And seriously? You don't know how folks are sometimes coached before they meet the press? C'mon, even the simpleminded won't buy that.

JasperL said:

I've never asserted those two were 'angels' - whatever that means to you. But what you haven't said with any detail is what 'part' they played? Unless Brown grabbed the cop, or lunged at him, the cop had no business grabbing his neck or his shirt or escalating something as trivial as not walking on the sidewalk into a violent encounter.

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I did indeed state I don't believe Johnson's assertion that the kicking of the door closed was an accident. And yes, that is technically a justification for the officer grabbing Brown. I've been clear about what I blame Brown for and what I blame the officer for. You however have not been reading my posts, but rather what you assume I'm saying. You've made that clear.

As for your latest rant of assumption, I did indeed say I blamed Brown for running, and I also blamed the officer for overreacting in shooting him as he was running. However, I blame Brown more for that part of it. Even Johnson admits the officer was yelling, "Stop or I'll shoot". I really don't know the legality of shooting a fleeing suspect these days. That used to be okay in my youth.

clownboy said:

You finally find a point, but you won't be able to repair your argument on the back of a single misspelling. I did in fact intend to type "coach". And seriously? You don't know how folks are sometimes coached before they meet the press? C'mon, even the simpleminded won't buy that.

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For the record, I'm not normally the spelling police, but that was the third time in three different posts you'd used 'couched' instead of coached.

Of course people are coached before they appear on TV. But you've asserted with no evidence that Johnson is 1) a "THUG" and 2) the "coached" story told by this thug who is no angel is only partially true or perhaps entirely untrue for all I know, but what we do know is you're engaged in a form of character assassination in your descriptions of Johnson and his telling of the incident.

I did indeed state I don't believe Johnson's assertion that the kicking of the door close was an accident. And yes, that is technically a justification for the officer grabbing Brown. I've been clear about what I blame Brown for and what I blame the officer for. You however have not been reading my posts, but rather what you assume I'm saying. You've made that clear.

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Johnson didn't say they accidentally KICKED the door closed, he said the police pulled up right next to them, tried to open the door and it bounced off Brown. If that's true, then it's obviously NOT a justification for the dumbass officer to grab the guy who he'd just bounced a car door off of.

JasperL said:

Of course people are coached before they appear on TV. But you've asserted with no evidence that Johnson is 1) a "THUG" and 2) the "coached" story told by this thug who is no angel is only partially true or perhaps entirely untrue for all I know, but what we do know is you're engaged in a form of character assassination in your descriptions of Johnson and his telling of the incident.

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YOUR assumption is that I said he was coached to assassinate his character. False assumption. You asserted he was not coached, but now your story has changed.

JasperL said:

Johnson didn't say they accidentally KICKED the door closed, he said the police pulled up right next to them, tried to open the door and it bounced off Brown. If that's true, then it's obviously NOT a justification for the dumbass officer to grab the guy who he'd just bounced a car door off of.

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Nice try, I don't believe that part of the story. I thought I made that clear. But you apparently want to assume I'm saying something else.

JasperL said:

The stories are "all over the place" but you've already decided the guy is a lying thug. Got it. I can't imagine how you've come to that conclusion....

BTW, what does it mean to be "couched" by the best? And he wouldn't have had a chance to be coached "by the best" if the incompetent cops had interviewed him shortly after the incident, and now that they have NOT, it's a good excuse for you to assume the guy is a liar. Neat trick you got going there. Using the incompetence of the police to impeach the story of a witness, or according to you, fellow perpetrator!

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He thinks as the government tells him to think, no questions asked.

I sure would hate to have him on a jury.....:roll:

clownboy said:

As for your latest rant of assumption, I did indeed say I blamed Brown for running, and I also blamed the officer for overreacting in shooting him as he was running. However, I blame Brown more for that part of it. Even Johnson admits the officer was yelling, "Stop or I'll shoot". I really don't know the legality of shooting a fleeing suspect these days. That used to be okay in my youth.

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I guess I missed that part.... It's alleged he shot an unarmed man in chest during a struggle, in the the back as he was running away, then again after he stopped turned around and had his hands up.

And as far as I know it's legal to shoot a fleeing suspect if the officer believes that suspect to be a danger to others. So if Brown had a gun, which he didn't, and had shot at the cop, which he hadn't, then shooting him in the back as he ran away would probably be OK. As is, I guess he has to argue he THOUGHT the guy was armed and dangerous, or something. But he can't (AFAIK) just go and kill a guy running away for no reason other than he's running away.

And I know you blame the guy who'd just been shot in the chest for running, but it makes no sense to me. I'm sure I'd be in a panic at that point - unarmed, walking down the street, doing nothing wrong, and in 10 seconds, shot in the chest for no apparent reason but an out of control cop. It's not the time or place for sober reflection about the pros and cons of various options.

There is a war going on between normal people and a cast/police society with greater rights than normal people. I assume most cops dont even know its a secret war because for the most part its a leadership problem that occasionally gets together with a secluded instance. The average human would sweep a life changing (for the bad) event under the rug if they could. They dont want their whole life, as they know it, to end. Which is why all cops need helmet cams and if they dont record the event properly (aiming the cam away on purpose) then they should be automatically assumed guilty, as cops really do have extra rights above the average. I guess these specific cops even have on duty personal cop cams but arent using them?

Cops really annoy the **** out of me. Just last week I had a nazi cop-pig interupt me and my little brothers kung fu training in the front yard (peaceful, no hurting, learning to defend against bullies). He said "If he sees it again he is going to arrest us for fighting in public and disturbing the peace." Ive had a cop point a gun at my head even though I had done nothing wrong, was just hanging out with a black guy. Ive had cops make me do the DUI test over and over and over and over and over as his buddies laughed at me until I finally got fed up and sat on the curb, so he hit me with a resisting arrest. For the most parts cops = jocks that couldnt make it in a sport after high school.

I really dont get why there isnt stricter laws for cops, the guys who go around with holstered death on their hip. It seems backwards. Cops get the lax treatment and have insurance for wrong doing. If the average person gets 3 strikes then a cop should only get 1. There is no reform. They are a bad person. They dont get extra privledges and the leadership of these people should view bad cops as scum that need to be paraded in front of society and scorned.

Hear about the married cop couple that shot their daughters boyfriend in cold blood? Imagine how much crap like that gets swept under the rug because a cop pointed his dashcam away from the event and decided there was no witnesses. We need protections against this. If a cop didnt document it then they are guilty of whatever they are accused of. Its harsh but it seems to be the only protection. You want rights above the average? Then take the extra responsibility repercussions along with it.

Why wouldnt every cop and cop leader want everything the cop sees being recorded???? Because they only want the good news to get out and never the bad. Its fake. They are protecting paychecks and employee rosters and funding. Not people.

clownboy said:

YOUR assumption is that I said he was coached to assassinate his character. False assumption. You asserted he was not coached, but now your story has changed.

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Right, you have a lot of respect for the guy, who you called a "thug" in post one of this thread. And you said this on page one, "He sounds couched by the best, is Sharpton there yet?" Gosh, I can't imagine why I assumed you were engaged in character assassination....

Nice try, I don't believe that part of the story. I thought I made that clear. But you apparently want to assume I'm saying something else.

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But that's not what you said - you said Johnson 'admitted' to accidentally kicking the door closed. He didn't admit to anything like that. He said the officer bounced the door off Brown.

JasperL said:

I guess I missed that part.... It's alleged he shot an unarmed man in chest during a struggle, in the the back as he was running away, then again after he stopped turned around and had his hands up.

And as far as I know it's legal to shoot a fleeing suspect if the officer believes that suspect to be a danger to others. So if Brown had a gun, which he didn't, and had shot at the cop, which he hadn't, then shooting him in the back as he ran away would probably be OK. As is, I guess he has to argue he THOUGHT the guy was armed and dangerous, or something. But he can't (AFAIK) just go and kill a guy running away for no reason other than he's running away.

And I know you blame the guy who'd just been shot in the chest for running, but it makes no sense to me. I'm sure I'd be in a panic at that point - unarmed, walking down the street, doing nothing wrong, and in 10 seconds, shot in the chest for no apparent reason but an out of control cop. It's not the time or place for sober reflection about the pros and cons of various options.

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Just to put a fine point on it, can't really shoot a guy in the chest when their back is to you running away. Unless you're using those fancy new guided rounds. :mrgreen:

Again, to be clear, and really I think once you disregard your assumptions, we mostly agree, here is what I think from what we know so far. The officer overreacted to two young kneepants wearers who were failing to comply with a simple order to leave the middle of the street. When he pulled over to give them a talking to his door was kicked or bumped shut on him. He overreacted and grabbed one of the kids to keep him from running off. The guy fought with the officer. The struggle made it into the police vehicle where the guy was shot the first time. The guy extricated himself and began running from the scene where the officer after verbally warning shot the guy again in the back. The guy stopped at that point and surrendered. The cop came forward and shot the guy several more time after he had surrendered.

TheDemSocialist said:

Read more @: Lawyer: Police Haven't Talked To Michael Brown Shooting Witness

The police havent even interviewed one of the key witnesses. Many witnesses back up Johnson's claims as well. I think its pretty that the police know they did something incredibly wrong and are trying their best to disclose as least amount of information possible. [/FONT][/COLOR]

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Am I missing something here? How do we know they don't plan to interview him?

I'm no expert on these things, but when a cop shoots a civilian, it gets special handling and a lot of people involved. I'm sure they will interview this guy.

JasperL said:

Right, you have a lot of respect for the guy, who you called a "thug" in post one of this thread. And you said this on page one, "He sounds couched by the best, is Sharpton there yet?" Gosh, I can't imagine why I assumed you were engaged in character assassination....

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Respect? No, not for many reasons. First of which is leaving his buddy and not trying to defuse the situation. Do I also think he's a thug, yes, yes I do. And, I could be wrong here, but I doubt highly his language sounds every day like he does in front of the cameras today. His story has been smoothed over for the cameras.

Do I think any of that justifies his friend's murder by the officer in any way, no I do not.

JasperL said:

But that's not what you said - you said Johnson 'admitted' to accidentally kicking the door closed. He didn't admit to anything like that. He said the officer bounced the door off Brown.

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Semantics and avoidance of responsibility. This is precisely why I don't believe that part of the story.

clownboy said:

Just to put a fine point on it, can't really shoot a guy in the chest when their back is to you running away. Unless you're using those fancy new guided rounds. :mrgreen:

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Those acts were separated by a comma.... "in chest during a struggle, in the the back as he was running away, then again...."

Again, to be clear, and really I think once you disregard your assumptions, we mostly agree, here is what I think from what we know so far. The officer overreacted to two young kneepants wearers who were failing to comply with a simple order to leave the middle of the street. When he pulled over to give them a talking to his door was kicked or bumped shut on him. He overreacted and grabbed one of the kids to keep him from running off. The guy fought with the officer. The struggle made it into the police vehicle where the guy was shot the first time. The guy extricated himself and began running from the scene where the officer after verbally warning shot the guy again in the back. The guy stopped at that point and surrendered. The cop came forward and shot the guy several more time after he had surrendered.

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You just can't leave it alone, can you. Got to get a dig in on the black guys. Kneepants wearing thugs, one of them 'couched' by Al Sharpton......

But yes, we mostly agree on the timeline and sequence of events, based on what we know so far. And, yes, the gratuitous insults of the character of the black guys involved sort of obscure the rest of your points, especially as they've evolved in this discussion.

Well, cops have been killing blacks for as long as I can remember.

I call it the "pit bull" syndrome. Not all pit bulls are dangerous but there are enough of them mauling small children that most anyone knows to be on guard around them.

Cops are forever dealing with black thugs that are disproportionate, in number, compared to thugs of other races. I understand their reasoning and distrust when dealing with blacks but it still don't make it right.

Add to the fire the all too common police psyche, that is common among the alpha male. "King of the Hill/Say Uncle," mentality types and now we have added nitro to the glycerin.

I would hate to live in a society without law enforcement. But this jackboot mentality prevalent in modern policing will surely only lead to rebellion. Eventually, the police need to understand that they may be the meanest, baddest, strongest person on the street with the biggest gun and badge but they are by far outnumbered by the citizenry and that citizenry is also well armed. It would not surprise me to read more and more about law enforcement being "bushwhacked," as time goes on, if the police of our nation don't cool their jets and get some logical counseling about their defective personality traits that drives them to always be the "alpha dog." People hate bullies. Eventually, the badge won't stop the people from taking action of their own against these jackboots.

All that being said, for every asshole cop there is, there are a dozen good ones. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. But it does need to get fixed. Sooner than later. I'm starting to get a bit PO'd at them myself and I am traditionally a supporter of our law enforcement officers. They really need to get their ego in check.

TheDemSocialist said:

Read more @: Lawyer: Police Haven't Talked To Michael Brown Shooting Witness

The police havent even interviewed one of the key witnesses. Many witnesses back up Johnson's claims as well. I think its pretty that the police know they did something incredibly wrong and are trying their best to disclose as least amount of information possible. [/FONT][/COLOR]

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It doesn't matter. The Feds are going to send this dude to jail one way, or another.

JasperL said:

Those acts were separated by a comma.... "in chest during a struggle, in the the back as he was running away, then again...."

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Nice try, forgotten what you posted and I quoted?

Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
And I know you blame the guy who'd just been shot in the chest for running, but it makes no sense to me.

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JasperL said:

You just can't leave it alone, can you. Got to get a dig in on the black guys. Kneepants wearing thugs, one of them 'couched' by Al Sharpton......

But yes, we mostly agree on the timeline and sequence of events, based on what we know so far. And, yes, the gratuitous insults of the character of the black guys involved sort of obscure the rest of your points, especially as they've evolved in this discussion.

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You just can't stop assuming and getting it wrong can you? You're so guilty about race (see, that's how that assuming thing works) you think that's why I believe he's a thug or why he's been coached. I invoked Sharpton because he's a clear example of the coaching that happens in these situations.

Captain America said:

Well, cops have been killing blacks for as long as I can remember.

I call it the "pit bull" syndrome. Not all pit bulls are dangerous but there are enough of them mauling small children that most anyone knows to be on guard around them.

Cops are forever dealing with black thugs that are disproportionate, in number, compared to thugs of other races. I understand their reasoning and distrust when dealing with blacks but it still don't make it right.

Add to the fire the all too common police psyche, that is common among the alpha male. "King of the Hill/Say Uncle," mentality types and now we have added nitro to the glycerin.

I would hate to live in a society without law enforcement. But this jackboot mentality prevalent in modern policing will surely only lead to rebellion. Eventually, the police need to understand that they may be the meanest, baddest, strongest person on the street with the biggest gun and badge but they are by far outnumbered by the citizenry and that citizenry is also well armed. It would not surprise me to read more and more about law enforcement being "bushwhacked," as time goes on, if the police of our nation don't cool their jets and get some logical counseling about their defective personality traits that drives them to always be the "alpha dog." People hate bullies. Eventually, the badge won't stop the people from taking action of their own against these jackboots.

All that being said, for every asshole cop there is, there are a dozen good ones. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. But it does need to get fixed. Sooner than later. I'm starting to get a bit PO'd at them myself and I am traditionally a supporter of our law enforcement officers. They really need to get their ego in check.

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Don't be a thug...problem solved.

clownboy said:

Respect? No, not for many reasons. First of which is leaving his buddy and not trying to defuse the situation. Do I also think he's a thug, yes, yes I do. And, I could be wrong here, but I doubt highly his language sounds every day like he does in front of the cameras today. His story has been smoothed over for the cameras.

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I'm going to quit discussing the whole "thug" thing - you've made your point. Young black guys who don't talk correctly = thugs. Got it.

But do you really expect a person to stay around and try to 'defuse the situation' after a cop has shot your friend in the chest? How does that work? "Excuse me Mr. Policeman, but I would sure rather you quit shooting my friend in the chest. We wish you no harm, sir, and my friend might expire should you persist in your shooting of him.

Please note my raised arms, and if you would kindly stop shooting, we will be on our way to the Emergency Room. We would be ever so grateful if you would ring 911 and request the good folks there to dispatch an ambulance to this scene, post haste! Have a good day, old chap!"

Semantics and avoidance of responsibility. This is precisely why I don't believe that part of the story.

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Or it could be the truth.

apdst said:

Don't be a thug...problem solved.

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Don't be a black kid walking down the street when a cop is driving by looking for trouble.

apdst said:

Don't be a thug...problem solved.

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Well, the guy shot graduated from HS, was on his way to college, and by all accounts (so far) was a good kid, who had no criminal record. So he wasn't a thug, and got killed. That's the reason for the protests.

Captain America said:

Well, cops have been killing blacks for as long as I can remember.

I call it the "pit bull" syndrome. Not all pit bulls are dangerous but there are enough of them mauling small children that most anyone knows to be on guard around them.

Cops are forever dealing with black thugs that are disproportionate, in number, compared to thugs of other races. I understand their reasoning and distrust when dealing with blacks but it still don't make it right.

Add to the fire the all too common police psyche, that is common among the alpha male. "King of the Hill/Say Uncle," mentality types and now we have added nitro to the glycerin.

I would hate to live in a society without law enforcement. But this jackboot mentality prevalent in modern policing will surely only lead to rebellion. Eventually, the police need to understand that they may be the meanest, baddest, strongest person on the street with the biggest gun and badge but they are by far outnumbered by the citizenry and that citizenry is also well armed. It would not surprise me to read more and more about law enforcement being "bushwhacked," as time goes on, if the police of our nation don't cool their jets and get some logical counseling about their defective personality traits that drives them to always be the "alpha dog." People hate bullies. Eventually, the badge won't stop the people from taking action of their own against these jackboots.

All that being said, for every asshole cop there is, there are a dozen good ones. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. But it does need to get fixed. Sooner than later. I'm starting to get a bit PO'd at them myself and I am traditionally a supporter of our law enforcement officers. They really need to get their ego in check.

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I'd agree with you but for the fact that they generally keep this sort of behavior to areas that are in less than stellar conditions. Some of that is because they are used to confronting gangs in those neighborhoods and get nowhere with subdued egos. Some just a human reaction to the environment .