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80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
i can appreciate that you are opposed to those who make rational, factual, persuasive arguments, because that would be very foreign to the interests of your established political ideology, which compels you to believe what you are told, without self examination of what has been presented
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What rational, factual, percussive arguments? A gun control argument must rely on the premise that it is a rational choice for the people to give up their liberty to the government in return for safety. It is hardly rational, but the same old nonsense that has been going on throughout the ages by those that support force.

Btw, telling me of all people that I do what I'm told is complete nonsense. On a side note, I'm not a minarchist anymore. I really have to leave that group.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Morality Games said:
Enough, maybe, to stall.
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According to the polls young voters want less gun control. I don't see much difference in those younger than eighteen either.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Henrin said:
According to the polls young voters want less gun control. I don't see much difference in those younger than eighteen either.
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the trend is towards fewer households owning arms, with nothing to indicate that trend is changing

but at the same time, those arms owning households are acquiring a greater quantity of arms per household

net result: fewer people are owning more arms
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
the trend is towards fewer households owning arms, with nothing to indicate that trend is changing

but at the same time, those arms owning households are acquiring a greater quantity of arms per household

net result: fewer people are owning more arms
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I wonder if there is some sort of correlation between support of gun control decreasing and few people having guns. Guns and ammo are more expensive than ever and a large part of that is because of gun control after all.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Henrin said:
You're surprised easily then. Personally, I see nothing surprising about people that believe that the born and the unborn have human rights approving of the mans actions.
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Seems to me that you do not hold a hardlined stance on abortion. If you truly believe your quote, then you'd be okay with a woman aborting her pregnancy because she was raped.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Cryptic said:
I am pro life and I would convict the shooter of Manslaughter.

In addition, if his apparent lack of remorse and suggestions that the killing was an execution are accurate, I would advocate that he receive the maximum allowable sentence for manslaughter.

In the end, howwever, the victim was not innocent and the circumstances do not support a charge of Second Degree Murder.
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I appreciate your candor and your point-of-view.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Middleground said:
Seems to me that you do not hold a hardlined stance on abortion. If you truly believe your quote, then you'd be okay with a woman aborting her pregnancy because she was raped.
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Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh..

Why is that again? If a pregnancy results from a rape in what way does aborting the pregnancy justified? The woman would not be defending herself from the rapist nor is the unborn guilty of anything. I don't get it.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Henrin said:
Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh..

Why is that again? If a pregnancy results from a rape in what way does aborting the pregnancy justified? The woman would not be defending herself from the rapist nor is the unborn guilty of anything. I don't get it.
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But the baby was the product "immoral actions." A bad man did a very bad thing... like you pointed out. You never said anything about imminent danger. You keep moving the goalposts.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Middleground said:
But the baby was the product "immoral actions." A bad man did a very bad thing... like you pointed out. You never said anything about imminent danger. You keep moving the goalposts.
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I also didn't say anything about imminent danger in the post you just responded to. Go figure.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Summerwind said:
Attack being the key word. You're not legally allowed to attack anyone. You can defend yourself, others, and in some states your property, you never have the right to attack.
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Wrong. There is no law that says you cannot attack during self defense.
 
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Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Muhammed said:
Wrong. There is no law that says you cannot attack during self defense.
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True. But chasing them down an alley is not self defense any longer. They may have deserved it but under the law you cannot shoot them.
 
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Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Henrin said:
I also didn't say anything about imminent danger in the post you just responded to. Go figure.
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You certainly alluded to it:

The woman would not be defending herself from the rapist
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And for the life of me, I cannot comprehend how you cannot see the unborn's innocence even if it's mother is a criminal. You see the innocence from the product of a rape. Why is that???

nor is the unborn guilty of anything.
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^^^ product of a rape
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Muhammed said:
Wrong. There is no law that says you cannot attack during self defense.
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we reviewed that in the zimmerman trial
that is not an issue of dispute

in this instance, when the perps were no longer being aggressive but were retreating, the shots were fired
one does not twice shoot a woman in the back and successfully claim 'self defense'
especially when the shooter explains how she was pleading with him, giving him reason not to shoot, and then characterizes his shooting of her as a message sent
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Superfly said:
Of course it is. What you consider "understandable," others do not.
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Again; Not in regards to the replies made.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Crosscheck said:
True. But chasing them down an alley is not self defense any longer.
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I disagree. When your attacker(s) seek to reposition, that does not necessarily mean the attack is no longer an imminent threat. Or that the battle, or threat, is even even close to being finished.

To think otherwise is incredibly naive.
 
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Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
giving him reason not to shoot,
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You must mean lied to him instead, as it surely was not a reason for him not to shoot.
Just saying. :shrug:
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Excon said:
You must mean lied to him instead, as it surely was not a reason for him not to shoot.
Just saying. :shrug:
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it was a lie
but it was also pleading, begging by the woman not to be shot
which then tells us, she was not - at that time - inflicting hostility upon him, thereby not necessitating the firing of his weapon in self defense
twice
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
it was a lie
but it was also pleading, begging by the woman not to be shot
which then tells us, she was not - at that time - inflicting hostility upon him, thereby not necessitating the firing of his weapon in self defense
twice
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Yes we know what it was.
But as pointed out, it was not a reason for him not to shoot.

I do wonder where she found time to do this pleading all the while running down an ally with her back to him?
Apparently there is information we do not have.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Lutherf said:
Read about this earlier and I'm pretty sure this guy is going to pay a hefty price.

The guy shot the chick as she and her boyfriend were running away....outside the house....down the alley.

Deadly force is fine when an imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm exists. That sure doesn't seem to be the case here.
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The second post pretty much answered this somehow 25 page long thread.

Had he shot her when they jumped on him inside the house and tackled him it would've been "Clean" so to speak.

Instead he shot the woman as they were fleeing from his house, with ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no signs of being able to harm him physically in any way whatsoever.

As for the lady being pregnant that means nothing, her being dead is what matters, the pregnancy in this case to me seems to be just a tool to get people even more riled up on how wrong with was.

OFF-TOPIC SIDENOTE

That baby would have been raised terribly... Your mother and (presumably that guy was...) father being criminals, that outta get the good values instilled into you...
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Muhammed said:
I disagree. When your attacker(s) seek to reposition, that does not necessarily mean the attack is no longer an imminent threat. Or that the battle, or threat, is even even close to being finished.

To think otherwise is incredibly naive.
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In this case we'll never know, but the male seemed to have run off completely without looking back. However, one could also argue that it was because the female was shot that he decided to never return, but as I said, we just will never know, we can only assume.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Excon said:
Yes we know what it was.
But as pointed out, it was not a reason for him not to shoot.
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certainly it was a reason for him not to shoot
her begging him, her pleading with him not to shoot her was an unmistakable indicator that he was no longer being threatened by her during her retreat

I do wonder where she found time to do this pleading all the while running down an ally with her back to him?
Apparently there is information we do not have.
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yes. what caused him to believe it was the same couple who had ransacked his place thrice before. why did they both leave him unattended in his own home, giving him an opportunity to access his hand gun
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

This thread is starting out like the Zimmerman thread. Kinda civil at the beginning but by page thirty it got where it took on a life of its own. That being said; this senile ole coot should not see the light of day for the few remaining days of his miserable existence.

Sadly Calyfornia will be picking up the tab for his keep BUT maybe they can get his Social security and Medicare to pick up some of the tab. Give him a stipend of maybe $15 dollars a week, maybe that will keep the gangbangers off his rotting corps for a few minutes.:screwy
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Muhammed said:
I disagree. When your attacker(s) seek to reposition, that does not necessarily mean the attack is no longer an imminent threat. Or that the battle, or threat, is even even close to being finished.

To think otherwise is incredibly naive.
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Oh , they were running down the alley while he called 911 and then they were going to reposition themselves. How many blocks were they going to run before they repositioned themselves?

These cases always bring out the Perry Mason viewers.

We can wait for the trial and hear it out. As of now , none of us really don't know anything other that the unreliable media has given us.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
certainly it was a reason for him not to shoot
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You seem to be misunderstanding what is being said.

No, it was not a reason for him not to shoot.


It may have been a reason for you not to shoot, but not for him. Do you now understand what was said?
Which is kind of obvious. Had it been a reason for him not to shoot, he wouldn't have shot.



justabubba said:
her begging him, her pleading with him not to shoot her was an unmistakable indicator that he was no longer being threatened by her during her retreat
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You do not know how that occurred.



justabubba said:
yes. what caused him to believe it was the same couple who had ransacked his place thrice before. why did they both leave him unattended in his own home, giving him an opportunity to access his hand gun
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Maybe what happened hasn't been accurately relayed.
As for what you mention here? That is nothing more than stupid criminals being stupid.
 
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