• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

Buck Ewer said:
I don't care if you notched your gun belt or not ... or how much sleep you get ... how many did you have to kill?
Surely with your level of expertise you must have had to defend your home against ruckus causers. That 12 gauge slug through the door or wall thing does work ...right?
Don't try to tell us it's all talk and bluster ... come on, there had to be a few...
Click to expand...
Slugs can go through doors. Are you doubting this? Obvious it depends on the door, distance to door, distance from door to target...
 
molten_dragon said:
I had forgotten that. If that turns out to be true then you're right, it's manslaughter and not murder.
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely. Mechanical faults with weapons are very rare. If that shotgun was from a "name brand" manufacturer and is un modified by an "arm chair gunsmith", I would say it is almost impossible that a mechanical fault caused the weapon to fire.

rhinefire said:
He may do time but hopefully not much because if she had not been a loser he would not be in this predicament.
Click to expand...

The thought process of

"He deserves less punishment because I deem the victim to be worthless"

is a slippery slope. As a side note, this type of reasoning was applied to criminal cases by both the Nazis and the Communists.

I am not saying that the concept is totally with out merit, but it must be used very sparingly. Perhaps if the victim was known to get drunk and harass people, and had been warned that this was risky and that she should stop.
 
Last edited:
X Factor said:
Actually this cannot both be an accident and self defense. Self defense is, "yes I did it intentionally but here's why it's justified". The defense trying to claim both makes me believe it was neither.
Click to expand...
He is already on the record saying it was an accidental discharge. Which is manslaughter.
So it will depend on how things are argued in court.


Most likely it will be argued that she startled him in some fashion causing him to reflexively pull the trigger. Which is an accidental discharge.
I am thinking the argument will be something along the lines of this; If a reasonable person would have deliberately pulled the trigger under such circumstances, then an accidental pull should also be covered.
 
Cryptic said:
Highly unlikely. Mechanical faults with weapons are very rare. If that shotgun was from a "name brand" manufacturer and is un modified by an "arm chair gunsmith", I would say it is almost impossible that a mechanical fault caused the weapon to fire.
Click to expand...
Accidental discharge can happen absent mechanical failure.
 
MaggieD said:
People who think as you do shouldn't own guns. You're a menace.
Click to expand...
Lets address this typical nonsense from you to start.
This always seems to happen when what you have said is shown to be wrong.
And instead of realizing it isn't personal, and admitting what you said was wrong, you take it personal, and then in turn make it personal and try demeaning me by making some of the most profoundly absurd remarks.
No MaggieD, I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor will I ever be, a menace with any of my firearms.


MaggieD said:
I was staying in a drive-up motel with my 74-year-old mom (at the time). The manager didn't stay on property overnight. They didn't have phones in the rooms. My cell couldn't get a signal in the mountains. This was in a little coal town called Manchester, KY. Population? One McDonald's. I was awakened at 2 AM in the morning to some jamoke banging on the door yelling, "Open this ****ing door!!!" Bang-bang-bang-bang-bang!!!! "****ing hell. Open the God-damned door, bitch!!!!" More banging. I had a loaded .38 on the nightstand.

So I opened the door and shot him in the head. I was scared.. Oh, wait, or was it I opened the door and damn! My gun accidentally shot her in the head. Yeah, that's it. My gun did it.

Not.

Hell, I could even imagine the conversation with the sheriff when he finally came: "Sheriff!! I was scared to death!!! So I threw open the door and shot him. Anybody would have done it. Are you nutz??

What did I do? I shook off the cobwebs, figured he was drunk, turned on the light, picked UP my gun and yelled, "YOU'VE GOT THE WRONG ****IN' ROOM. GET THE **** OUT OF HERE."

My reasoning? Even scared and half asleep? I've got all the power in my hand here. There's one of you, drunk. And one of me, armed. Come thru that door and you're dead. Open the door to him? Really???? Not on his life.
Click to expand...
And?
Telling someone to open the door is not the same as trying to break in.


MaggieD said:
Please to tell me how a gun accidentally discharges unless there's a struggle for it.
Click to expand...
Really MaggieD?
You need it explained how a person can be startled, causing an involuntary pull of the trigger?
Wow! Simply wow!


MaggieD said:
I think that tactic is a mistake. He'll still go to jail. We don't get to kill someone and say "Oops." So, was he afraid and shot her in self-defense? Or did the gun go off by itself? Or is he throwing **** against the wall to see what sticks?
Click to expand...
:doh Tactic?
It is what he said from the beginning.
It will get him found guilty of manslaughter.



MaggieD said:
No, by the accounting we had thus far, this lady would want to find him guilty of something. He hadn't called the cops; he opened the door to what he perceived as a threat; he shot her in the head. He's going to jail. I hope.
Click to expand...
He isn't required to call the cops.
And you can not hold a person responsible for that which they are not required to do. Which makes your position on such irrational.
And there was no purposeful shooting of her in the head.


MaggieD said:
How many people reading this have accidentally discharged their gun? And then add, "and killed someone in the process?" That'd be an interesting statistic.
Click to expand...
It happens.
Or have you not heard about the accidental discharges, while cleaning, killing someone?
 
Excon said:
Accidental discharge can happen absent mechanical failure.
Click to expand...
True, but I think: "I accidently pulled the trigger" type claims have historically not been given alot of weight by juries.
 
Cryptic said:
True, but I think: "I accidently pulled the trigger" type claims have historically not been given alot of weight by juries.
Click to expand...
I do not know that to be true.
And under the current situation, he very well may have been startled by a person who is already a known threat because she had been trying to break in.
And yes, supposedly the defense has evidence to present besides his thinking she was trying to.
So ... :shrug:
 
LowDown said:
Good luck convincing people that a person who is defending himself from a violent attack is acting irrationally.
Click to expand...

No one is saying any such thing.
 
nota bene said:
Now you just hold on there a minute. You have absolutely no idea what my view of SYG is because I've never posted about it. And I haven't posted about it on this thread either.

You clearly haven't read what I sourced from the NY Time's article I linked. Eyewitnesses say that McBride was out of the car and that they asked if she needed help. To repeat[bolding mine]: "Neighbors along the street testified that they had offered assistance to the young woman, who appeared to be injured and seemed disoriented, but that Ms. McBride had refused help and wandered away. Several hours later, and six blocks from the crash site, Ms. McBride appeared on Mr. Wafer’s front porch."
Click to expand...
Where does it mention her drug dealers house?
Or is that just you making **** up?
 
Buck Ewer said:
How could an accidental discharge possibly be proved?
His defense is grasping at straws.
Click to expand...
BS! It was what he stated before he had a defense lawyer.
Nor does he have to prove it was an accidental discharge.

The burden of "proof" is always on the Prosecutor. Even in an affirmative defense case.
 
MrVicchio said:
Slugs can go through doors. Are you doubting this? Obvious it depends on the door, distance to door, distance from door to target...
Click to expand...

But how many have you killed?
You know so much about the dynamics of gun killing you must have experience. How many?
 
Excon said:
He is already on the record saying it was an accidental discharge. Which is manslaughter.
So it will depend on how things are argued in court.


Most likely it will be argued that she startled him in some fashion causing him to reflexively pull the trigger. Which is an accidental discharge.
.
Click to expand...
Wrong. That's reflexive murder.
Why do you want a murderer to go free?
 
Excon said:
And there was no purposeful shooting of her in the head.
Click to expand...
He turned off the TV and the lights ... loaded the shotgun...went to the door...shouldered the weapon ...aimed head high ... put his finger on the trigger and pulled the trigger...
...But it was an accident,
riiiiight...:roll:
 
Buck Ewer said:
He turned off the TV and the lights ... loaded the shotgun...went to the door...shouldered the weapon ...aimed head high ... put his finger on the trigger and pulled the trigger...
...But it was an accident,
riiiiight...:roll:
Click to expand...
As I have told you previously. You know not of what you speak.
In other words; That is not what happened.
 
MaggieD said:
I agree with you. It's time some of these broaded castle laws were clarified and narrowed. It should be illegal to shoot someone just for being in one's front yard; or stealing one's car; we should have (and do have) the absolute right to shoot someone if we are physically threatened, but shooting a person requires answering for shooting a person.

Just because you're standing on my porch yelling at me doesn't give you the right to shoot me dead because, "I was afraid she was going to force her way into my home." Shut and Lock The Damned Door.

Years ago, I asked a cop if I could shoot someone on my front porch if he scared me. The cop answered something like, "Well, yeah. But you'd better drag him part-way in the house."

Fingerprints on the door handle, broken glass, more than one person, all of that would enter in . . . but showing up at one's front door with a gun in one's hand shows a certain premeditation that makes me nervous. And if you had time to run and get it? You had time to Shut and Lock The Damned Door.
Click to expand...
Kicking a door in is no big sweat.
 
Excon said:
BS! It was what he stated before he had a defense lawyer.
Nor does he have to prove it was an accidental discharge.

The burden of "proof" is always on the Prosecutor. Even in an affirmative defense case.
Click to expand...
Nevertheless the jury would have to buy the "accidental discharge "story in order to acquit on the murder charge.
...ain't gonna happen.
 
Buck Ewer said:
Nevertheless the jury would have to buy the "accidental discharge "story in order to acquit on the murder charge.
...ain't gonna happen.
Click to expand...
iLOL There is no evidence of murder. It is an over charge.
But there is him admitting to an accidental discharge, which is manslaughter under Mich Law.
So we are right back to what he may argue at trial to claim his actions are covered by self defense.
 
Buck Ewer said:
What, someone else did all those things?
Click to expand...
What you said was not true.
So there is no "someone" else who did those things in this case, as they did not happen.
 
Excon said:
iLOL There is no evidence of murder. It is an over charge.
But there is him admitting to an accidental discharge, which is manslaughter under Mich Law.
So we are right back to what he may argue at trial to claim his actions are covered by self defense.
Click to expand...
Self defense or accident?
It can't be both.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom