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House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

Fenton said:
Well, maybe Obama should hsve thought of that before siccing the IRS on his Political counter parts.

He knew the GOP House held the purse strings so he must have known there would be repercussions.
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You're welcome to believe that if you wish, far be it from me or anyone else to try to change your thought process. I know great conspiracies when I see them, this ain't one, it's parroting what someone saw or heard.
 
Cephus said:
But that's only because there are more Americans today than ever before. That means there are more Americans requiring social services that require more money to fund. The percentage is more important than the actual numbers.
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Not when the comparison was to actual, real dollars in revenue being the highest ever. If you want to talk percentages, then the revenue number also has to be a percentage - a per eligible worker number - and not just a flat dollar figure.
 
Misterveritis said:
Each state can collect the taxes it owes to the feds. Then the states can attach strings to the money it allocates to the feds.
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You know, that makes sense! :thumbs:

Greetings, Misterveritis. :2wave:
 
Cephus said:
Which doesn't fix the problem, it just makes 50 little IRS clones. I'll never understand people who think the states are any more honest than the feds.
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Something that the great men who founded this nation clearly understood, but which too many today to not, is that smaller, more localized government is generally easier to keep accountable to the governed. It's why they wrote the Constitution to only delegate specific, limited powers to the federal government, with the Tenth Amendment to reserve any further powers to the states or the people.

I like Misterveritis' idea, but would take it further. Let's put tax collection in the hands of city, town, and county-level governments. These governments are the most local, and most accountable to the people that they serve. This is where the decisions should be made as to what services government needs to provide to the people, which of these can best be handled by this most local level of government, how much needs to be collected in taxes to fund these services, and which services should be delegated to higher levels of government, and how much shall be collected in taxes and passed up to that higher level in order to fund it. City/town/county governments could then delegate tasks up to the state level, and pass up to the state the taxpayer funds deemed appropriate to fund these tasks. State governments could similarly delegate tasks up to the federal government, and pass along the amount of taxpayer funds that the state deems appropriate.

This way, control over government, spending, and taxes, would begin at the most localized level, and be delegated upward as necessary, rather than beginning at the federal level. Such a system would clearly be much more accountable to those subject to such governing and taxation, and would be much more in line with the clear intent of the great men who founded this nation.
 
Fenton said:
Well, maybe Obama should hsve thought of that before siccing the IRS on his Political counter parts.

He knew the GOP House held the purse strings so he must have known there would be repercussions.
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Obama is from Chicago—a place that is famous for political corruption. He surely is used to seeing politicians engage in blatant corruption, and getting away with it. I think he truly believed that he could get away with the same kind of corruption as President that he saw happening in Chicago.
 
Cephus said:
It would, at the very least, force them to operate more efficiently, which every government agency out there needs to do. Maybe we ought to gut the entire operating budget of the U.S. government by 15% and see how much money we save.
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Yeah let's cut air traffic control again that ****ing worked out great.
 
upsideguy said:
You close deficits by the combination of raising revenue and lowering expenses. If your revenue shortfall is largely function of your inability to collect what is due you, you most certainly attack that first. Sorry, this is business finance 101.
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Restructuring human and other capital was addressed in one of my leadership courses in grad school. It's essential when addressing budget cuts.

Sometimes it involves issuing pink slips. ;)
 
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Unitedwestand13 said:
how does hurting the tax collecters harm corruption?
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it doesnt, it covertly feeds it. All that means is that they passed a bucket of presumptions to fast track collections and a cheaper workaround for the present system. your rights not with or with very little standing.
 
Cephus said:
Which doesn't fix the problem, it just makes 50 little IRS clones. I'll never understand people who think the states are any more honest than the feds.
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great comment!
in fact they are far worse than the feds.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
i fail to see how gutting the budget of the governments tax collection agency is going to solve the countries money troubles
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At least the IRS-gestapo will have less money to waste on filming startrek spoofs.
 
This certainly is a step in the right direction. Many of us have been saying for years that we need to scrap the current tax code and go to a flat tax (or a similar simple system) that would make the IRS obsolete. One argument against it has been that eliminating the complex tax code would cause job loss because we would no longer pay billions of dollars a year in tax preparation. To me that seems like an argument for, not against.

But the current administration is either directly or indirently making it more plausible to end the IRS. cost saving aside, corruption has made the IRS ever more unlikable to the people. Due to the economic downfall, housing crash and artificially low interest rates, the most common deductible item (mortgage interest) is less common as home ownership rates are at their lowest in decades. Interest rates are held so low that fewer people are able to meet the $12,200 minimum level of deductions to be able to itemize, and that threshold continues to go up. In fact, those who CAN itemize are among top earners. The liberals should be pushing for a flat tax and dissolution of the IRS simply to uphold their hatred of the "rich". Reduced funding may be a political stunt, but what needs to happen is complete elimination of the department. There is simply no reason to try to repair a corrupt office that has ceased to be useful anyway.
 
Cephus said:
Which doesn't fix the problem, it just makes 50 little IRS clones. I'll never understand people who think the states are any more honest than the feds.
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I will never understand why people become collectivists. In my state if I don't like what is going on I can go visit the SOB causing the problems. Power must be as close to the people as possible so the people can correct the problems.

It fixes the biggest danger we have to our liberties, the federal government. Let's get back to states rights, Republicanism, and Federalism. It is time to kill the Leviathan.
 
Cephus said:
What makes you think that third parties are any less corrupt?
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Haven't give them a shot yet. Others would continue the Dem/Rep duopoly expected different results from the same thing over and over again. That is the true definition of insanity.
 
KokomoJojo said:
great comment!
in fact they are far worse than the feds.
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I don't think they are worse, they just aren't any inherently better. Instead of one set of rules, you have 50 sets of rules, often which are contradictory and do not conceivably work together. The idea that states are better than the fed is ridiculous, I agree, just looking at states now, there are states I'd never set foot in because I hate their laws so much.
 
TheNextEra said:
Haven't give them a shot yet. Others would continue the Dem/Rep duopoly expected different results from the same thing over and over again. That is the true definition of insanity.
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It's not the parties, it's the system. Even if a third party candidate did get elected, they'd have to play the political game, becoming inherently corrupt in the process, or they'd get nothing done and never get re-elected again. There's no way around it under our current system.
 
Misterveritis said:
I will never understand why people become collectivists. In my state if I don't like what is going on I can go visit the SOB causing the problems. Power must be as close to the people as possible so the people can correct the problems.

It fixes the biggest danger we have to our liberties, the federal government. Let's get back to states rights, Republicanism, and Federalism. It is time to kill the Leviathan.
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People can correct the problem now by voting for better candidates. Unfortunately there are no better candidates being put up by any party and it doesn't matter if it's local, state or federal elections, they all suck. People no longer run for office to make a difference, they run for office for power, control and money. The idea of public service doesn't exist in politics anymore, it's all about feathering your own nest and the nest of your party. Corruption exists everywhere. How many governors of Illinois are in prison right now? How many mayors of cities are in prison right now? These are all people who are voted into office by their constituents yet were crooks.

And the idea that you can go "influence" a politician is childish. Violence or threats are immature. These people are elected collectively, just because you don't like it, doesn't give you the right to take them out on your own.
 
Cephus said:
People can correct the problem now by voting for better candidates. Unfortunately there are no better candidates being put up by any party and it doesn't matter if it's local, state or federal elections, they all suck. People no longer run for office to make a difference, they run for office for power, control and money. The idea of public service doesn't exist in politics anymore, it's all about feathering your own nest and the nest of your party. Corruption exists everywhere. How many governors of Illinois are in prison right now? How many mayors of cities are in prison right now? These are all people who are voted into office by their constituents yet were crooks.

And the idea that you can go "influence" a politician is childish. Violence or threats are immature. These people are elected collectively, just because you don't like it, doesn't give you the right to take them out on your own.
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Congressional term limits would go a very long way towards fixing the legislative branch.
 
tech30528 said:
This certainly is a step in the right direction. Many of us have been saying for years that we need to scrap the current tax code and go to a flat tax (or a similar simple system) that would make the IRS obsolete. One argument against it has been that eliminating the complex tax code would cause job loss because we would no longer pay billions of dollars a year in tax preparation. To me that seems like an argument for, not against.
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If you think a flat tax would make IRS or tax professionals obsolete, you don't understand a whole lot about tax or IRS. The easiest step to reduce tax prep fees for 10s of millions of individuals is to direct IRS to prepare the returns and send them out to individuals to add a couple things - charity, mortgage interest, taxes - then sign and send in. Most working people don't itemize and wouldn't need to do even that - just look it over, sign and be done till next year. That makes sense, however, so won't happen.

Flat taxes are a way to hide tax cuts for the wealthy, and tax increases on the middle and upper middle class - itemizers, those with kids. It might do away with EITC and similar at the bottom. What they ALL do is shift taxes from the rich.... gosh, that's a shocker.

But the current administration is either directly or indirently making it more plausible to end the IRS. cost saving aside, corruption has made the IRS ever more unlikable to the people. Due to the economic downfall, housing crash and artificially low interest rates, the most common deductible item (mortgage interest) is less common as home ownership rates are at their lowest in decades. Interest rates are held so low that fewer people are able to meet the $12,200 minimum level of deductions to be able to itemize, and that threshold continues to go up. In fact, those who CAN itemize are among top earners. The liberals should be pushing for a flat tax and dissolution of the IRS simply to uphold their hatred of the "rich". Reduced funding may be a political stunt, but what needs to happen is complete elimination of the department. There is simply no reason to try to repair a corrupt office that has ceased to be useful anyway.
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We could dissolve the "IRS" and then remake a new agency called "Real American Fair Tax Collection." It would do the same thing, maybe some names would change, but we wouldn't dismantle 10s of billions invested in technology etc. to collect taxes.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Congressional term limits would go a very long way towards fixing the legislative branch.
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No, we'd just keep replacing them with more crooks who have no concern with doing a good job to get re-elected, they will just grab what they can grab right now and forget doing anything for the good of the people who put them in office. Then they'll be replaced by someone else who will do the same thing.
 
Cephus said:
No, we'd just keep replacing them with more crooks who have no concern with doing a good job to get re-elected, they will just grab what they can grab right now and forget doing anything for the good of the people who put them in office. Then they'll be replaced by someone else who will do the same thing.
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I disagree. One of the main reasons congress is so corrupt is that too many politicians make it a lifetime career. The longer they stay in office, the more entrenched their power becomes. If we had term limits, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for instance would be gone.
 
apdst said:
And the Leftists claim that the GOP doesn't do anything! They did something and I think it's great. I think this is what the folks who represent the people are supposed to do.
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Yeah, let's make it LOTS easier to break the law by cheating on one's taxes! That will do WONDERS for tax revenue, won't it? Just ask Kansas how well they're doing since Brownback slashed their taxes....

"Okay, people, this is what you're supposed to pay in taxes, but we're going to slash our ability to check up on you...so we're going to trust you to do what's right even though you know that you can more safely cheat on your taxes! Besides, since when do we need to pay for things like roads and bridges and military?"
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Yeah, let's make it LOTS easier to break the law by cheating on one's taxes! That will do WONDERS for tax revenue, won't it? Just ask Kansas how well they're doing since Brownback slashed their taxes....

"Okay, people, this is what you're supposed to pay in taxes, but we're going to slash our ability to check up on you...so we're going to trust you to do what's right even though you know that you can more safely cheat on your taxes! Besides, since when do we need to pay for things like roads and bridges and military?"
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The DOJ needs to launch a credible investigation and pinch the people responsible and this wouldn't be necessary. Afterall, this is a government of the people, for the people and by the people. IOW, the people don't exist for the government to **** over for the government's gain. That's why this country was formed...remember?
 
apdst said:
The DOJ needs to launch a credible investigation and pinch the people responsible and this wouldn't be necessary. Afterall, this is a government of the people, for the people and by the people. IOW, the people don't exist for the government to **** over for the government's gain. That's why this country was formed...remember?
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And why did our Founding Fathers choose a strong central government after having tried a loose confederation? Think about that for a while.

And just like when it comes to education, you don't make a government agency work better by slashing its budget.
 
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