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TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘promiscu

Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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There are more than a few issues here; 1) The persistent rape culture amongst some men and the 2) proliferation of privileged and coddled life of star athletes in college who assume rape is a benefit. However, what I find offensive is the assumption that supposed promiscuity and drinking makes rape justifiable.
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I think the judge should be able to reject the filing by this lawyer, and tell him he will accept the filing when all interviews about the gal being promiscuous are removed. Such "facts" should be considered automatically irrelevant.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

Exactly. I think the defense is laughable and the idea behind it dispicable...but ultimately that is the justice system we have created in this country and how defense lawyers make their money and how people who pretty much are likely guilty but are seeking to beat the system are going to act. It's similar to the notion of having to deal with the Westboro jackasses as it relates to the first amendment. Is it annoying? Yes. Are they themselves worthy of condemnation? Yes. Is it right to attack SOCIETY as a whole because of it? No.



You did the moment you blamed this on the "rape culture" of "some men"...YOU interjected the notion of an "us vs them" gender war thing. There is no more reason to believe that this defense is being put forth because "some men" are into "rape culture" than it is because there are so few arguments available to them for his defense that they had to grasp one as poor as this.



Yes, you're allowed to post your opinion. I'm allowed to express why I disagree with your opinion. That's how this works.

i am still waiting for her to prove this rape culture thing. sounds like another feminist myth.

wasn't there this thing that the leader of the feminist movement was saying that even sleeping with your wife was rape or something. it was a long time ago, but something i remotely remember.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

I think the judge should be able to reject the filing by this lawyer, and tell him he will accept the filing when all interviews about the gal being promiscuous are removed. Such "facts" should be considered automatically irrelevant.

he can't reject the filling but he can reject the motion of dismissal. which is more than likely what he will do.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

he can't reject the filling but he can reject the motion of dismissal. which is more than likely what he will do.

That's why I said "I think the judge should be able to ..."

Hopefully the motion's rejection/acceptance will be based on whatever else is in the filing, completely ignoring the parts about her supposed promiscuity.

I just think the judge should be able to reject things like this and require a refiling so that they don't have to wade through stupidity.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

Exactly. I think the defense is laughable and the idea behind it dispicable...but ultimately that is the justice system we have created in this country and how defense lawyers make their money and how people who pretty much are likely guilty but are seeking to beat the system are going to act. It's similar to the notion of having to deal with the Westboro jackasses as it relates to the first amendment. Is it annoying? Yes. Are they themselves worthy of condemnation? Yes. Is it right to attack SOCIETY as a whole because of it? No.
2) You did the moment you blamed this on the "rape culture" of "some men"...YOU interjected the notion of an "us vs them" gender war thing. There is no more reason to believe that this defense is being put forth because "some men" are into "rape culture" than it is because there are so few arguments available to them for his defense that they had to grasp one as poor as this.
3) Yes, you're allowed to post your opinion. I'm allowed to express why I disagree with your opinion. That's how this works.
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1) Agreed.

2) That would be your interpretation of my opinion, which again as I have stated, I do not agree with. Colloquially speaking, the phrase rape culture already implies "male", so if anything, me stating "male rape culture" is redundant. Sorry about that.

3) Agreed.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

i am still waiting for her to prove this rape culture thing. sounds like another feminist myth.

wasn't there this thing that the leader of the feminist movement was saying that even sleeping with your wife was rape or something. it was a long time ago, but something i remotely remember.

Not sure if you're talking about her, but that feminist freak Andrea Dworkin famously said/wrote "intercourse is a means of physiologically making a woman inferior".
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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There are more than a few issues here; 1) The persistent rape culture amongst some men and the 2) proliferation of privileged and coddled life of star athletes in college who assume rape is a benefit. However, what I find offensive is the assumption that supposed promiscuity and drinking makes rape justifiable.
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A couple of points:

1) Why do you focus on the issue of a supposed "rape culture?" It seems like alcohol/drug culture would fit just as well. Wouldn't it better to advise young people to not drink so much that they lose control of themselves (passing out or losing the ability to inhibit primitive urges). It seems like every time one of these stories pops up alcohol/drug use is a common theme. You can rail all you want about how men should control themselves, but if you have a culture that promotes situations where both people greatly diminish their ability to inhibit the undesired behavior you are setting yourself up for failure.

2) I'm pretty sure the only thing that is proliferating is the media reports of such behaviors. These behaviors have been going on for a long time for a variety of reasons.

3) I don't think the defense attorney is actually making the assumption that this alleged rape was justified. I think they are presenting the only credible reasoning for the behavior: the logic of a horny, drunk adolescent.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

2) That would be your interpretation of my opinion, which again as I have stated, I do not agree with. Colloquially speaking, the phrase rape culture already implies "male", so if anything, me stating "male rape culture" is redundant. Sorry about that.

In which case, you were not just pushing the gender war notion in your OP, but you were redundantly pushing it ;)
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

Not sure if you're talking about her, but that feminist freak Andrea Dworkin famously said/wrote "intercourse is a means of physiologically making a woman inferior".

Either way they are both ignorant comments to make. they are of the same genre of stupidity thinking.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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1) Agreed.

2) That would be your interpretation of my opinion, which again as I have stated, I do not agree with. Colloquially speaking, the phrase rape culture already implies "male", so if anything, me stating "male rape culture" is redundant. Sorry about that.

3) Agreed.

prove there is a rape culture amongst men first off. feminist myths and opinions are not facts.
quite frankly i find this offensive.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

Actually, that defense could fly. The jury could well nullify a case like this if they believe the evidence yet say they don't care and walk the guy. Still find nullification to be a good thing? :mrgreen:

Despite trying to emotionalize it in this context, in general nullification is necessary.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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There are more than a few issues here; 1) The persistent rape culture amongst some men and the 2) proliferation of privileged and coddled life of star athletes in college who assume rape is a benefit. However, what I find offensive is the assumption that supposed promiscuity and drinking makes rape justifiable.
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Well, he may want that, but TN has a rape shield law that, with one narrow exception, prevents the victims sexual history from being brought up in court as a defense.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

1-If the victim was unconscious, there is no excuse regardless of the victims history.
2-There IS A general attitude of sex and violence against women in every aspect of our society from advertising to television to video games.
3-This isnt about sports or athletes. If you dont think this happens in college dorms or house parties across the country on a regular basis, you arent looking.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

1-If the victim was unconscious, there is no excuse regardless of the victims history.
2-There IS A general attitude of sex and violence against women in every aspect of our society from advertising to television to video games.
3-This isnt about sports or athletes. If you dont think this happens in college dorms or house parties across the country on a regular basis, you arent looking.

Yes, this is a cultural issue first and foremost, and the celebrity factor does nothing to mitigate it.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

Despite trying to emotionalize it in this context, in general nullification is necessary.

Actually, I'm not trying to "emotionalize" (is that a real word?) anything. I just don't think everyone understands what it is and think it's just someone not being convicted because the proof was lacking. That's not nullification, that's what juries are supposed to do.

Nullification means that, despite taking an oath to render a verdict based on the law and the evidence, jurors will still walk a guy despite the case being proven beyond a reasonable doubt based on their own personal agenda. I don't care if you support it, but if you do, you have to support the jury's decision to do so, even if you disagree with the agenda. It's that that I keep testing.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

A couple of points:

1) Why do you focus on the issue of a supposed "rape culture?" It seems like alcohol/drug culture would fit just as well. Wouldn't it better to advise young people to not drink so much that they lose control of themselves (passing out or losing the ability to inhibit primitive urges). It seems like every time one of these stories pops up alcohol/drug use is a common theme. You can rail all you want about how men should control themselves, but if you have a culture that promotes situations where both people greatly diminish their ability to inhibit the undesired behavior you are setting yourself up for failure.

2) I'm pretty sure the only thing that is proliferating is the media reports of such behaviors. These behaviors have been going on for a long time for a variety of reasons.

3) I don't think the defense attorney is actually making the assumption that this alleged rape was justified. I think they are presenting the only credible reasoning for the behavior: the logic of a horny, drunk adolescent.
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1) I don't focus on it but it sure does seem to bother you. At any rate, it's my opinion and not part of the article.

2) I'm glad the media is reporting such things. There used to be a time and a place such things were totally ignored by the media.

3) Your opinion...which may or may not be true. What is a fact is that is that they are using that defense and that the woman was also "unconscious".

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Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

Actually, I'm not trying to "emotionalize" (is that a real word?) anything. I just don't think everyone understands what it is and think it's just someone not being convicted because the proof was lacking. That's not nullification, that's what juries are supposed to do.

Nullification means that, despite taking an oath to render a verdict based on the law and the evidence, jurors will still walk a guy despite the case being proven beyond a reasonable doubt based on their own personal agenda. I don't care if you support it, but if you do, you have to support the jury's decision to do so, even if you disagree with the agenda. It's that that I keep testing.

Yes, I understand what nullification is.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

In which case, you were not just pushing the gender war notion in your OP, but you were redundantly pushing it ;)
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Again, not a fact....your opinion.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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1) I don't focus on it but it sure does seem to bother you. At any rate, it's my opinion and not part of the article.

2) I'm glad the media is reporting such things. There used to be a time and a place such things were totally ignored by the media.

3) Your opinion...which may or may not be true. What is a fact is that is that they are using that defense and that the woman was also "unconscious".

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Awesome, no need for a trial then, since you know the facts without one. :roll:
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

prove there is a rape culture amongst men first off. feminist myths and opinions are not facts.quite frankly i find this offensive.
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Deal with it.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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Again, not a fact....your opinion.

Well, considering you blamed this in part on "rape culture"....and you just acknowledged that "rape culture" inherently is a "Male" problem...I'm going to say it's an opinion rather well supported with evidence.
 
Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

Well, considering you blamed this in part on "rape culture"....and you just acknowledged that "rape culture" inherently is a "Male" problem...I'm going to say it's an opinion rather well supported with evidence.
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You can say all you want, opinions are one thing...reality, another, for example;

Why we need to keep talking about ‘rape culture’

Rape Culture Is Real

The Rape Culture on College Campuses Must End
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Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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Deal with it.

prove it i don't have to deal with things that are balantly false.
your so called opinion is nothing more than a lie.

as i said you can't back it up.

there is no such thing as rape culture.

your first article is an opinion piece so it is irrelevant.
your second is written by a feminist which makes it irrelevent.
the last one is right up there with the daily kos as far as reliability.

so you still haven't proven anything just feninist bs.
 
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Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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There are more than a few issues here; 1) The persistent rape culture amongst some men and the 2) proliferation of privileged and coddled life of star athletes in college who assume rape is a benefit. However, what I find offensive is the assumption that supposed promiscuity and drinking makes rape justifiable.
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So the defense lawyers are basically blaming the female, again. :roll:

How many more times do people need to hear this kind of crap before they stop blaming the victim?

RAPE CULTURE
Rape culture is a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society,[1] and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.[2]
Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of certain forms of sexual violence that do not conform to certain stereotypes of stranger or violent rape. Rape culture has been used to model behavior within social groups, including prison rape and conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire countries have also been alleged to be rape cultures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture
 
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Re: TN football player wants rape case dismissed because unconscious victim was ‘prom

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You can say all you want, opinions are one thing...reality, another, for example;

Why we need to keep talking about ‘rape culture’

Rape Culture Is Real

The Rape Culture on College Campuses Must End
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Your links are all well and good...if I was suggesting somehow that "rape culture" doesn't exist. I haven't indicated my thoughts either way on this.

My comments, and your responses, has been regarding my claims of your attempt to drag this into a "gender war" issue when the far simpler answer is that this isn't motivated by some notion of "rape culture" or anything of the sorts....it's motivated by wanting to try and put forward a defense becuase the person doens't want to plead guilty, and they have little better options than to pull this tired old card.

Posting links trying to back up the notion that there is "rape cultuer" doesn't counter my suggestion that you're needlessly and pointlessly interjecting your hyper partisan desire to turn this issue into a gendar war one when the issue could just as realistically be a justice system one.
 
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