• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Hussein’s chemical weapons facility

re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

MaggieD said:
It wasn't just talk:



U.S. removes 'yellowcake' from Iraq - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq | NBC News
Click to expand...

Hell yeah they found yellow cake and progressives say "well it wasn't enriched" really? then what the hell do you need yellow cake for? *crickets* on their part.

Saddam was planning to make nuclear weapons or dirty bombs and probably give them to terrorists to use against the US, use them himself or use them as a bargaining chip to get something....

Not only that but I will bet anything in 20 years some dude on a camel will just be hopping along and fall into a military stockpile of WMD's and be like "WTF."

Hell, they're still finding crazy weapons and artifacts from Nazi Germany all these years later - bunkers, weapons, art, experimental technology etc.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Unitedwestand13 said:
again the administrations was claiming that iraq's possession of aluminum tubes and amounts of yellow cake uranium was sufficent evidence for the united states to mount preemptive invasion of the country.
Click to expand...

A laundry list of breaches of the 1991 cease fire agreement were the justifications for a continuation of war started in 1990.

You are misrepresenting the case that was made.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Unitedwestand13 said:
and does this somehow justify the invasion of the country?
Click to expand...

:shrug: It's a good question. The administration doesn't ever seem to have had a decision cycle on it, and they didn't try to justify the invasion solely on that basis.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Mr.Nick said:
Hell yeah they found yellow cake and progressives say "well it wasn't enriched" really? then what the hell do you need yellow cake for? *crickets* on their part.

Saddam was planning to make nuclear weapons or dirty bombs and probably give them to terrorists to use against the US, use them himself or use them as a bargaining chip to get something....
Click to expand...

:shrug: he probably wanted them as a balance against Iran. Not seeing that as a motivation for Saddam to run a MILDEC campaign to make people think he had WMD was a major analytical shortfall on our part.

Not only that but I will bet anything in 20 years some dude on a camel will just be hopping along and fall into a military stockpile of WMD's and be like "WTF."

Hell, they're still finding crazy weapons and artifacts from Nazi Germany all these years later - bunkers, weapons, art, experimental technology etc.
Click to expand...

My bet would be Syria, more so than some dude on a camel.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

MrVicchio said:
Yes, weapons grade CBR Munitions have to be properly maintained, stored and the like. Yes, they lose "Viability" as military weapons.

Now, get a crate of old Chemical Weapons, put in on a ship... say one bound for NY Harbor, then detonate it. Sure, it wouldn't have the same effect as if it were lobbed from Artillery fire or launched from the crude scud's Saddam had.

I'm sure that'd be a small consolation to the people of NY that the terrorist used old, less effective chemicals.

(P.S. You are free to insert any target civilian city... Paris, London, Tel Aviv...)
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter where the destination was..... The fact remains Saddam did in fact have WMD's and was in fact a psychopath - what's even worse is that his sons were both crazier than he was which is hard to believe, so imagine if he died and one of Uday or Kusay ended up with Iraq. Those two nuts would have held the world hostage with WMD's - that thought alone scares the hell out of me. Those two were so evil and reckless they would have made Hitler look like a puppy.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

cpwill said:
None - I'm sorry if I spoke awkwardly there - they had the materials necessary. They had not constructed any.

We thought Iraq had an ongoing production program - they didn't. They probably would have stood one back up if we'd decided well what the hell and dropped pressure, but as it was, Iraq was generally in "freeze" mode on it's WMD's. The extent to which Saddam was fully aware of that is debatable, but it seems he did think he had a greater capability than he did.
Click to expand...

That seems about as on par as what I remember/know. One thing that I will add that does not get a lot of mention is that there was growing suspicion that Saddam was losing his marbles. In the last few years before the US invaded, Saddam was more interested in writing cheesy novels and poetry rather than dictatin'.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Middleground said:
That seems about as on par as what I remember/know. One thing that I will add that does not get a lot of mention is that there was growing suspicion that Saddam was losing his marbles. In the last few years before the US invaded, Saddam was more interested in writing cheesy novels and poetry rather than dictatin'.
Click to expand...

:) He had a Koran inked in his own blood, as well.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

cpwill said:
:shrug: he probably wanted them as a balance against Iran. Not seeing that as a motivation for Saddam to run a MILDEC campaign to make people think he had WMD was a major analytical shortfall on our part.



My bet would be Syria, more so than some dude on a camel.
Click to expand...

Yeah well, say I was Saddam - I would hide all my weaponry underground in bunkers in the desert - everything. Yeah good luck finding the bunkers. I'm sure there are a few who know exactly where these weapons are and you're probably right - they will sell, trade or just give them to Syria or Egypt....

God knows how many weapons came from the USSR and who has them after they Soviet Union fell...

I know drug smugglers were using Russian subs to smuggle drugs from Mexico to the US... So if Mexican drug dealers/cartels can get their hands on Russian subs imagine who has control of their arsenal???? now you got Iraq, which obviously isn't as advanced but they still have WMD's.

IMO, it's not the WMD's that are their problem - to those who wish to do us harm - it's the delivery systems.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Middleground said:
Didn't know that. That's ****ed up! :shock:
Click to expand...

Yup. One of the reasons I love studying these guys is that so many of them are legitimately bat-****-crazy.

If you want ****ed up, though, start checking into Abubakr Shekau, the Boko Haram guy. Now that guy is straight up Heath-Ledger-Joker-Crazy. Who the **** knows how many evil voices are whispering bright ideas inside that dude's head.

The Jihad in general is headed into a whole new brand of crazy with this rising generation, man, and it's gonna get uglier before it gets' better. :(
 
Last edited:
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

If I am not mistaken the yellow cake was widely known about and under seal which was not broken. The yellow cake in question was not what the US government was referring to when it was discussing Iraqi WMD,

At the time of the invasion Iraq did not have a WMD program or usable WMD's. Yes it had them in the past, but not at the time of the invasion or shortly before it. Syria had its own WMD/chemical weapons program
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Lord Tammerlain said:
If I am not mistaken the yellow cake was widely known about and under seal which was not broken. The yellow cake in question was not what the US government was referring to when it was discussing Iraqi WMD,

At the time of the invasion Iraq did not have a WMD program or usable WMD's. Yes it had them in the past, but not at the time of the invasion or shortly before it. Syria had its own WMD/chemical weapons program
Click to expand...

Oh. Well, if it was still wrapped...
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Mr.Nick said:
Yeah well, say I was Saddam - I would hide all my weaponry underground in bunkers in the desert - everything. Yeah good luck finding the bunkers. I'm sure there are a few who know exactly where these weapons are and you're probably right - they will sell, trade or just give them to Syria or Egypt....

God knows how many weapons came from the USSR and who has them after they Soviet Union fell...

I know drug smugglers were using Russian subs to smuggle drugs from Mexico to the US... So if Mexican drug dealers/cartels can get their hands on Russian subs imagine who has control of their arsenal???? now you got Iraq, which obviously isn't as advanced but they still have WMD's.

IMO, it's not the WMD's that are their problem - to those who wish to do us harm - it's the delivery systems.
Click to expand...

Bum-Bum BUMMMMMMMMMM!!!
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

MaggieD said:
Oh. Well, if it was still wrapped...
Click to expand...

Exactly, see, it was sealed up. It would have been against the rules to break a UN seal-tape without a UN official there to hand off custody.


:roll: I mean, like, everyone knows that.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Lord Tammerlain said:
If I am not mistaken the yellow cake was widely known about and under seal which was not broken. The yellow cake in question was not what the US government was referring to when it was discussing Iraqi WMD,

At the time of the invasion Iraq did not have a WMD program or usable WMD's. Yes it had them in the past, but not at the time of the invasion or shortly before it. Syria had its own WMD/chemical weapons program
Click to expand...

Syria also had a nuclear program that it didn't start until after the invasion (and which the NKoreans were probably working on), and was a probable destination point for some of the legacy weapons Saddam still had laying around.

Saddam did have usable WMD's in the chemical and radiological realm. What it did not have was a production program for nuclear, bio, or chem.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

They dont. All the arms were not usable.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Amadeus said:
This is called moving the goal post.
Click to expand...

No, we never found them.

Bush " lied " remember ??

If anyone is moving the goal post its you
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Middleground said:
That seems about as on par as what I remember/know. One thing that I will add that does not get a lot of mention is that there was growing suspicion that Saddam was losing his marbles. In the last few years before the US invaded, Saddam was more interested in writing cheesy novels and poetry rather than dictatin'.
Click to expand...

Yeah he wrote "romance" novels - but that is nothing on Kim Jong-il. Go read about him and his obsession with Walt Disney... His son is just as nuts (Kim Jong-Un)...

I don't think people really realize how weird North Korea actually is.

Saddam was a nut - but a "Tony Montana" nut - Kim Jong-Il was ****ing delusional - literally and so is his son. His son is just smarter than he was and more reckless - why you think they're testing nuclear weapons? oh yeah I forgot the democrats said they just wanted "nuclear power" so they can power their microwaves (which they don't have)...
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

So, it's come to this.

Neocons/Bush lovers are so desperate to defend invading Iraq that they take the word of an al Qaeda splinter group over UN inspectors...pathetic.

From Hans Blix (the head of U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq before Iraq invasion):

'However, suspicions are one thing and reality is quite another. U.N. inspectors were asked to search for, report and destroy real weapons. As we found no weapons and no evidence supporting the suspicions, we reported this. But U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfield dismissed our reports with one of his wittier retorts: "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
MORE: Share your story of the Iraq War
Rumsfeld's logic was correct, I believe, but it was no excuse for the American and British governments to mislead themselves and the world, as they did, by giving credit to fake evidence or assuming that if weapons items were "unaccounted for" that they must exist. They did not exist.
We inspected many hundred of sites, including dozens that had been suggested to us by various governments' national intelligence organizations. In a few cases we found conventional weapons -- but no weapons of mass destruction.'

Why invading Iraq was a terrible mistake - CNN.com
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

cpwill said:
Yup. One of the reasons I love studying these guys is that so many of them are legitimately bat-****-crazy.

If you want ****ed up, though, start checking into Abubakr Shekau, the Boko Haram guy. Now that guy is straight up Heath-Ledger-Joker-Crazy. Who the **** knows how many evil voices are whispering bright ideas inside that dude's head.

The Jihad in general is headed into a whole new brand of crazy with this rising generation, man, and it's gonna get uglier before it gets' better. :(
Click to expand...

Let's not forget Kim Jong Un! I recently saw a documentary involving people who survived escaping North Korea. One kid was born in a prison camp, and, when he was 11, he overheard his mother and older brother talk of escaping. He immediately ratted them out (he was so brainwashed) and not only were the all tortured for weeks, but he was forced to watch them get executed. I cannot image living with the guilt he must have.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

TheDemSocialist said:
They dont. All the arms were not usable.
Click to expand...


90% were usable - the yellow cake needed to be enriched but other than that the guy had the capabilities to make nuclear weapons.. Oh not to mention they found the technology to enrich yellow cake so.....

I'm not the biggest Bush fan but the guy stopped something really bad from happening here.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

DA60 said:
So, it's come to this.

Neocons/Bush lovers are so desperate to defend invading Iraq that they take the word of an al Qaeda splinter group over UN inspectors...pathetic.

From Hans Blix (the head of U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq before Iraq invasion):

'However, suspicions are one thing and reality is quite another. U.N. inspectors were asked to search for, report and destroy real weapons. As we found no weapons and no evidence supporting the suspicions, we reported this. But U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfield dismissed our reports with one of his wittier retorts: "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
MORE: Share your story of the Iraq War
Rumsfeld's logic was correct, I believe, but it was no excuse for the American and British governments to mislead themselves and the world, as they did, by giving credit to fake evidence or assuming that if weapons items were "unaccounted for" that they must exist. They did not exist.
We inspected many hundred of sites, including dozens that had been suggested to us by various governments' national intelligence organizations. In a few cases we found conventional weapons -- but no weapons of mass destruction.'

Why invading Iraq was a terrible mistake - CNN.com
Click to expand...

Neocon lovers and Bush fans?

Hey you do realize CONGRESS funded the war in Iraq right? That means democrats too. The only ones opposed to going into Iraq were libertarians and those who leaned libertarian. BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS VOTED TO FUND THAT WAR.

So don't sit here and pretend this was a republican war against Iraq because it wasn't even close to that - it was a bi-partisan war.

You progressives are either arrogant or just ignorant...
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Mr.Nick said:
90% were usable - the yellow cake needed to be enriched but other than that the guy had the capabilities to make nuclear weapons.. Oh not to mention they found the technology to enrich yellow cake so.....

I'm not the biggest Bush fan but the guy stopped something really bad from happening here.
Click to expand...

"Militants who have advanced across large swaths of Iraq in the past week seized a complex that was once Saddam Hussein’s top chemical-weapons production facility.

The facility still contains a stockpile of old weapons, but they are contaminated and hard to transport, and officials don’t believe the militants could make a chemical weapon out of them, the Wall Street Journal reports. In the aftermath of the U.S. invasion a decade ago, the U.S.-impaneled Iraq Study Group determined that the facility was sufficiently dismantled and that the remaining chemicals were useless."
Iraq: Islamist Militants Take Saddam Hussein Chemical Weapon Complex - TIME

All unuseable and if we are going to try to be apologists for the Bush regime even the Bush admin admitted there were known in Iraq.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

MaggieD said:
Oh. Well, if it was still wrapped...
Click to expand...

It was not part of an active program, if the US was concerned about it, it could have made claims about it rather then made up stories about yellow cake from Niger.


But in the lead up the stored and sealed yellow cake was not brought up as being one of the issues for the war
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

TheDemSocialist said:
"Militants who have advanced across large swaths of Iraq in the past week seized a complex that was once Saddam Hussein’s top chemical-weapons production facility.

The facility still contains a stockpile of old weapons, but they are contaminated and hard to transport, and officials don’t believe the militants could make a chemical weapon out of them, the Wall Street Journal reports. In the aftermath of the U.S. invasion a decade ago, the U.S.-impaneled Iraq Study Group determined that the facility was sufficiently dismantled and that the remaining chemicals were useless."
Iraq: Islamist Militants Take Saddam Hussein Chemical Weapon Complex - TIME

All unuseable and if we are going to try to be apologists for the Bush regime even the Bush admin admitted there were known in Iraq.
Click to expand...

What the hell do you know about chemical weapons? furthermore you're assuming these "militants" are a bunch of idiots that don't know what they're doing.

Spoken like a true progressive, Ayers is a ****ing genius and these "militants" are morons.

You better believe they have individuals in their ranks that know how to handle that crap - if you don't then you're a adifohjasdfoijasdo;fjado;sfjasdfjo;asj.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom