• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it cou

Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

I think this kid was very impressionable, and I think his Father helped to coach him right off that base and into the first Taliban outpost.

If you read the E-mails between him and his Father it's like his Dad was building him up, affirming his twisted and growing anti US sentiments.

Once the Taliban got him, he was all too willing to help them in anyway possible.

I'm not trying to justify what he did, and he should pay for the crime of desertion and maybe worse but it seems this kid was pretty easy to manipulate.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

NIMBY said:
Ask Israel that question since they've been in the business with these same charters for decades .
Click to expand...

We're not Israel.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

In which positive and negative ways.
My Father had more respect for the Israeli military soldier than any in the World.
Fenton said:
We're not Israel.
Click to expand...
Mine is a far cleaner analogy than most I see fron the rightists .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

NIMBY said:
Ask Israel that question since they've been in the business with these same charters for decades .
Click to expand...
Is that all you have? Ask Israel? Did they swap war criminals for a deserter?
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

American said:
EXCLUSIVE: Bergdahl declared jihad in captivity, secret documents show | Fox News

This gets better every hour. :lol:
Click to expand...

Oh my goodness. So the CIA has an extensive file on Bergdahl. I wonder how the administration is going to spin this one. Obviously the people who were in possession of these documents felt a need to hand them over to a press organization that would report on them. Senator Rubio was on Kelly's Files tonight. He was one that was briefed on Bergdahl by members of the administration last night. He said he had to be very careful what he could state only that the questions he directed during the meeting go to the heart of the same things listed in this file obtained by Fox and he was assured that there was nothing of the sort to be concerned over. He went on to say if the things in this file turn out to be true then the administration has lied to him and everyone that was being briefed last night. Stay tuned.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Misterveritis said:
Then perhaps you should try constitutional conservatives. We don't like establishment republicans nor statist democrats either.


Maybe so but it has not prevented you from being wrong.


Actually not.


Whether they kill soldiers or murder other innocent people is not relevant. They have murdered innocent people in the past and they will murder innocent people in the future.

So Obama, in addition to giving aid and comfort to our enemy in war time is also an accomplice to all of their future murders. So Obama must be impeached, arrested, tried and executed for his crimes.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the pointer. I'm your basic small government libertarian. Don't tax me to death and leave me the f alone to live my life as I see fit. I'd also like my small government to actually stick to a strict reading of the Constitution but that seems to be too much to ask for.


Actually not? No one recognized the Confederacy as a legal government. The Brits and French recognized them as belligerants which I suppose meant they thought the south was fighting a legal war but that was as far as they went. The secession was extra-Constitutional and thus completely illegal.

Interesting that you keep calling it war time. Who are we at war with? And if we're not at war why are the bad guys subject to military and not civilian justice?
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Gaius46 said:
Thanks for the pointer. I'm your basic small government libertarian. Don't tax me to death and leave me the f alone to live my life as I see fit. I'd also like my small government to actually stick to a strict reading of the Constitution but that seems to be too much to ask for.
Click to expand...
Then we have something in common.

Actually not? No one recognized the Confederacy as a legal government. The Brits and French recognized them as belligerants which I suppose meant they thought the south was fighting a legal war but that was as far as they went. The secession was extra-Constitutional and thus completely illegal.
Click to expand...
I cannot tell you what the law of land warfare was during the Civil war. The ones captured in uniform were generally treated as prisoners of war and released after the confederacy was defeated.

Interesting that you keep calling it war time. Who are we at war with? And if we're not at war why are the bad guys subject to military and not civilian justice?
Click to expand...
In Afghanistan? The Taliban, other insurgents...
Why one and not the other? Islamofascists have waged war against the west for a long time. So war just seems more appropriate.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

NIMBY said:
I don't hear the rightists quoting Krauthammer on this one.
Nor the usual Hyper-partisan Rep. Labrador, whose congressional district Bergdahl lives in .
Click to expand...
Although I like some of the views Charles holds he does not speak for the Right. He speaks for himself.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Misterveritis said:
Although I like some of the views Charles holds he does not speak for the Right. He speaks for himself.
Click to expand...
Which could be said for Firearm Feinstein and her saying the President's actions were illegal.

I wonder if you guys who think they speak for the rightists will be saying "guilty until proven innocent"
the next time DEMs do this when you're President.

Charles certainly speaks more for the right than most rightists on dp do .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

We have been hearing that he is going to be impeached for what, the last 4 years or more? Don't think it will happen but I wont lose any sleep if it does. It seems like this is biting them in the ass a little and thats probably all that will be done about it.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

mperry said:
We have been hearing that he is going to be impeached for what, the last 4 years or more? Don't think it will happen but I wont lose any sleep if it does. It seems like this is biting them in the ass a little and thats probably all that will be done about it.
Click to expand...
Biden would be the incumbent president.

Not very wise to impeach him.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Misterveritis said:
Then we have something in common.


I cannot tell you what the law of land warfare was during the Civil war. The ones captured in uniform were generally treated as prisoners of war and released after the confederacy was defeated.


In Afghanistan? The Taliban, other insurgents...
Why one and not the other? Islamofascists have waged war against the west for a long time. So war just seems more appropriate.
Click to expand...

I guess my bottom line is that I really don't care whether they're soldiers as the word is defined by the Geneva conventions or civilians. The distinction doesn't matter in the real world. We had some of them in captivity and let them go to get one of our guys back. Yes they might go back into conflict with our people and might kill some of them but that's always been true of prisoner exchanges. To criticize this exchange on that point and not others we've done is dishonest to me because the risk of our guys getting killed by released prisoners has always been there. Dead is dead whether the other guy wears a uniform or not.

And it doesn't matter to me whether Bergdahl is ultimately a deserter or not. If he's not we got back one of our own. If he's eventually found guilty he deserves to be face the music here, under our military justice system.

Finally I have some real problems with the whole illegal combatant notion. Illegal combatants are supposed to be handled by the civilian justice system - yet we treat them like POWs and put them in a military prison. We're having our cake and eating it too and while that might feel nice it's pretty transparently two faced to the rest of the world and has done our reputation a lot of damage for no good reason.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Earlier I wrote, "Although I like some of the views Charles holds he does not speak for the Right. He speaks for himself.

NIMBY said:
Which could be said for Firearm Feinstein and her saying the President's actions were illegal.
Click to expand...
Senate Intelligence Committee head says the Prez broke a law he signed. I understand your reticence, after all a leading Democrat says a Democrat president broke the law. No doubt she is (whisper) racist.

I wonder if you guys who think they speak for the rightists will be saying "guilty until proven innocent"
the next time DEMs do this when you're President.
Click to expand...
No. You don't wonder. But I get ahead of myself. I stumbled over your poorly worded sentence. "I wonder if you guys who thing they speak..." you...they? You're president.

I have no plans to be President. If nominated I shall not run. If elected...sure I will serve.

Charles certainly speaks more for the right than most rightists on dp do .
Click to expand...
He is a smart guy but he is not a Conservative. He misses things that a Conservative would not miss.

Link to what Krauthammer said that you agree with. Then let's talk about whether or not he has an opinion or a point.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Gaius46 said:
I guess my bottom line is that I really don't care whether they're soldiers as the word is defined by the Geneva conventions or civilians. The distinction doesn't matter in the real world. We had some of them in captivity and let them go to get one of our guys back. Yes they might go back into conflict with our people and might kill some of them but that's always been true of prisoner exchanges. To criticize this exchange on that point and not others we've done is dishonest to me because the risk of our guys getting killed by released prisoners has always been there. Dead is dead whether the other guy wears a uniform or not.

And it doesn't matter to me whether Bergdahl is ultimately a deserter or not. If he's not we got back one of our own. If he's eventually found guilty he deserves to be face the music here, under our military justice system.

Finally I have some real problems with the whole illegal combatant notion. Illegal combatants are supposed to be handled by the civilian justice system - yet we treat them like POWs and put them in a military prison. We're having our cake and eating it too and while that might feel nice it's pretty transparently two faced to the rest of the world and has done our reputation a lot of damage for no good reason.
Click to expand...
Unlawful combatants should be tried by a militarry tribunal. If found guilty they should be executed.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Misterveritis said:
Unlawful combatants should be tried by a militarry tribunal. If found guilty they should be executed.
Click to expand...

That would probably violate the Geneva Conventions as well as U.S. law.

Why did you lighten the text of my response in the manner that you did? You've effectively taken my first and third paragraphs out of context.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

lizzie said:
Obama is NOT going to be impeached. People have been wishing and waiting for that since he was elected the first time. He is in for the duration, and we will just have to hope that we get someone better next time around, but I wouldn't be holding my breath on that. We're stuck with him, like it or not.
Click to expand...

agreed.

in very practical terms, we have already proven that impeachment is an exercise in politics, certainly not one of legality of actions.
doing something illegal really has no bearing on impeachment... party affiliation is the only thing that matters

once upon a time I believed impeachment was a sort of remedy to high crimes and misdemeanors or at least an avenue to hold an official accountable... but I was wrong... very wrong.

it won't matter if what Obama did was illegal or not ( and i'm not arguing legality of his actions either way)... he'll be around until the end of his term regardless.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Gaius46 said:
Because he's not a deserter - yet. He's simply AWOL. To be guilty of desertion he has to have intended to be away from his post permanently, which I don't think they can ascertain without actually talking to him. It also requires a court martial.
Click to expand...

Deserter...AWOL...one's a lesser degree of the other. Neither warrants promoting a soldier while he's away from his post during an unauthorized absence.
 
Kings, tyrants and those who really don't care

Gaius46 said:
That would probably violate the Geneva Conventions as well as U.S. law.
Click to expand...
Really. Can you point to the American laws that might apply?

And can you equally point to that portion of the Geneva Convention rules of law that apply?

Why did you lighten the text of my response in the manner that you did? You've effectively taken my first and third paragraphs out of context.
Click to expand...
Until I reached the end I was going down a different path. It really doesn't matter.

"I guess my bottom line is that I really don't care whether they're soldiers as the word is defined by the Geneva conventions..."

And it doesn't matter to me whether Bergdahl is ultimately a deserter or not."

You don't care and it does not matter. Obama could have spoken those same words as he broke the law. Obama thinks he is our King. In reality he is a tyrant. And you?
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Thrilla said:
agreed.

in very practical terms, we have already proven that impeachment is an exercise in politics, certainly not one of legality of actions.
doing something illegal really has no bearing on impeachment... party affiliation is the only thing that matters

once upon a time I believed impeachment was a sort of remedy to high crimes and misdemeanors or at least an avenue to hold an official accountable... but I was wrong... very wrong.

it won't matter if what Obama did was illegal or not ( and i'm not arguing legality of his actions either way)... he'll be around until the end of his term regardless.
Click to expand...
If that is so then the nation has already ended.

If you haven't already done so it is time to arm up.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Misterveritis said:
If that is so then the nation has already ended.

If you haven't already done so it is time to arm up.
Click to expand...

this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone... the entire nation witnessed a President clearly break the law and have his party vote not to hold him accountable....
the same party who holds the White house and Senate today.

this is old news.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Thrilla said:
agreed.

in very practical terms, we have already proven that impeachment is an exercise in politics, certainly not one of legality of actions.
doing something illegal really has no bearing on impeachment... party affiliation is the only thing that matters

once upon a time I believed impeachment was a sort of remedy to high crimes and misdemeanors or at least an avenue to hold an official accountable... but I was wrong... very wrong.

it won't matter if what Obama did was illegal or not ( and i'm not arguing legality of his actions either way)... he'll be around until the end of his term regardless.
Click to expand...

I hate your cynicism...but I share it. Mostly.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Objective Voice said:
Deserter...AWOL...one's a lesser degree of the other. Neither warrants promoting a soldier while he's away from his post during an unauthorized absence.
Click to expand...

if the servicemember is recognized as a prisoner of war, there will be no holds placed on promotions that arise through TIR/TIS... if he is not officially charged with a crime under the UCMJ, they can't withhold promotion.

if an investigation warrants a court martial.. and they convict him of desertion... don't sweat it.. he'll be demoted retroactively and most of his money will be taken... he'll also serve a lengthy sentence.
if convicted, he's also eligible for he death penalty, but that probably won't happen.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

nota bene said:
I hate your cynicism...but I share it. Mostly.
Click to expand...

I hate my cynicism too, and that my cynicism reflects our political reality... it sure would be nice if it wasn't true.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Thrilla said:
this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone... the entire nation witnessed a President clearly break the law and have his party vote not to hold him accountable....
the same party who holds the White house and Senate today.

this is old news.
Click to expand...
Then let the revolution begin.

Or join me in getting the state legislatures to tell Congress to set the date for a convention of states to propose amendments to the Constitution. We need a reset. Revolutions usually end poorly.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Gaius46 said:
Because he's not a deserter - yet. He's simply AWOL. To be guilty of desertion he has to have intended to be away from his post permanently, which I don't think they can ascertain without actually talking to him. It also requires a court martial.
Click to expand...

Deserter...AWOL...one's a lesser degree of the other. Neither warrants promoting a soldier while he's away from his post during an unauthorized absence.

Thrilla said:
Agreed.

In very practical terms, we have already proven that impeachment is an exercise in politics, certainly not one of legality of actions. Doing something illegal really has no bearing on impeachment... party affiliation is the only thing that matters.

Once upon a time I believed impeachment was a sort of remedy to high crimes and misdemeanors or at least an avenue to hold an official accountable... but I was wrong... very wrong.

It won't matter if what Obama did was illegal or not ( and i'm not arguing legality of his actions either way)... he'll be around until the end of his term regardless.
Click to expand...

I still believe in the impeachment process as outlined in the Constitution. However, I just don't believe Pres. Obama has committed an impeachable offense during his presidency. Let's look at the facts:

- Libyian invasion. Remained within the limits of the War Powers Act. May have gone to the limits of certain reporting procedures within the law, but he never failed to comply with framework of the law or its intent.

- Fast & Furious. A reconstituted program from the prior administration. No proof of a cover-up by the Obama Administration over the death of a DEA Agent was ever uncovered.

- IRS. Nothing to prove the WH directed IRA agents to "hold/delay" processing of Conservative non-profit applications.

- Benghazi attack. Other than "sleeping on the job" or changing talking points, nothing criminal about delegating lower level Administrative department heads to do their jobs.

- Executive Orders. Nothing illegal about issuing them as long as the directive is specific to certain provisions of the law as such applies to a specific Cabinet Office.

Even this Gitmo issue is a "Catch-22" because although the President may have violated a provision of a law (not even sure which one was violated in this case...would have to do some research), who would actually take him to task for doing whatever he could to bring home one of our men and women in uniform? You can argue that he "negotiated with terrorist" all you want. You can argue that the POW whose release he negotiated for has a questionable military record. But in the end no one who calls themselves a patriots would agree to the alternative: leave one of our own behind indefinitely in the hands of the enemy. I certainly don't like the 5:1 deal that was made, but in the grand scheme of things I seriously doubt that anyone would agree to do nothing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom