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'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

AJiveMan said:
Dozens of Protesters Ride in off-Limits Canyon - ABC News

So the militia is stirring the pot some more...

Interesting, very interesting. But no arrests.
Click to expand...


That trail they be riding on looks pretty beaten to me! SO is King obama flexing his might as usual? Public lands bought and paid for by americans taxes but stay off darnit! and pay us more taxes.
:roll:

who cares its land be nice for our .gov to help the american citizens feed the cattle and keep beef prices lower BUT NO that makes too much darn sense.

ITS MINE MINE ITS ALL MINE I barack Obama king of the pen and the phone have spoken. Beef its what is pricier for dinner!!!
 
God damnit! God damnit! Why!? Are people so ****ing ignorant!?
Never mind. I already know the answer to the question.

**** it. Let them do it. Let them be a laughing stock while a couple of ignorant conservatives and right wing libertarians flock to them why they fly the flag of the United States of America.
 
votemout said:
That trail they be riding on looks pretty beaten to me! SO is King obama flexing his might as usual? Public lands bought and paid for by americans taxes but stay off darnit! and pay us more taxes.
:roll:

who cares its land be nice for our .gov to help the american citizens feed the cattle and keep beef prices lower BUT NO that makes too much darn sense.

ITS MINE MINE ITS ALL MINE I barack Obama king of the pen and the phone have spoken. Beef its what is pricier for dinner!!!
Click to expand...

im American I pay taxes I don't necessarily want to subsidize beef and have people take joy ride through archeological sites
 
votemout said:
That trail they be riding on looks pretty beaten to me! SO is King obama flexing his might as usual? Public lands bought and paid for by americans taxes but stay off darnit! and pay us more taxes.
:roll:

who cares its land be nice for our .gov to help the american citizens feed the cattle and keep beef prices lower BUT NO that makes too much darn sense.

ITS MINE MINE ITS ALL MINE I barack Obama king of the pen and the phone have spoken. Beef its what is pricier for dinner!!!
Click to expand...

Ironically the protesters are the ones screaming that its theirs, all theirs. BTW beef prices are high because the Cattleman's association works hard to make it high.
Oh and that trail is only closed to motorized vehicles, non motorized vehicles can still go on that trail. That includes horses. Certainly isnt closed.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
God damnit! God damnit! Why!? Are people so ****ing ignorant!?
Never mind. I already know the answer to the question.

**** it. Let them do it. Let them be a laughing stock while a couple of ignorant conservatives and right wing libertarians flock to them why they fly the flag of the United States of America.
Click to expand...
Ironic ain't it? They're anti gubbermint, yet they're flying the American flag, weirdos.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Ironically the protesters are the ones screaming that its theirs, all theirs. BTW beef prices are high because the Cattleman's association works hard to make it high.
Oh and that trail is only closed to motorized vehicles, non motorized vehicles can still go on that trail. That includes horses. Certainly isnt closed.
Click to expand...

They claim the drought forced prices to rise, all that, and probably received some money from the gubbermint they hate so much because their cattle suffered through the drought.

Check it out, in 2011 over $303 million was given to cattle ranchers.

United States Livestock Subsidies || EWG Farm Subsidy Database
 
`
Re: Militia

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.​
 
AJiveMan said:
They claim the drought forced prices to rise, all that, and probably received some money from the gubbermint they hate so much because their cattle suffered through the drought.

Check it out, in 2011 over $303 million was given to cattle ranchers.

United States Livestock Subsidies || EWG Farm Subsidy Database
Click to expand...

Personally I see no reason why ranchers need to graze their stock on public land. I grew up working on ranches in Oregon they were all on private land. Honest real ranchers own their land because they need the stability and they pay their own way and dont need subsidies. And well there is a a lot of history of dishonest cattleman in the west. ironically the BLM exists because of those dishonest ranchers. A good look at google earth will show ther impact of over grazing which is still a huge problem. The real problem is that the BLM does not do enough, not that they are doing too much. But really this isnt about grazing or rights its about nut case conspiracy anti government traitors. They asserted that they were drawing a line in the sand in Nevada, I say hold them to their word. If they want to fight let them, I am willing to fight them.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Personally I see no reason why ranchers need to graze their stock on public land. I grew up working on ranches in Oregon they were all on private land. Honest real ranchers own their land because they need the stability and they pay their own way and dont need subsidies. And well there is a a lot of history of dishonest cattleman in the west. ironically the BLM exists because of those dishonest ranchers. A good look at google earth will show ther impact of over grazing which is still a huge problem. The real problem is that the BLM does not do enough, not that they are doing too much. But really this isnt about grazing or rights its about nut case conspiracy anti government traitors. They asserted that they were drawing a line in the sand in Nevada, I say hold them to their word. If they want to fight let them, I am willing to fight them.
Click to expand...

I know of a cattle rancher in Wyoming, they have quite the spread, all private land. When their grasses start showing signs of being over grazed, they're removed from the grazing area and fed with straw, hay and other store bought feeds.

I did some searching yesterday because I'd never heard of coyote weed, which is very poisonous, and takes the place of natural grasses caused by over grazing. There are also other plant life that are undesired and unwanted on grazing lands.

You're absolutely correct, this isn't about grazing. This is about people being anti US Government, they want what are presently government and public owned lands to be turned over to state control, and to allow states to manage lands, even the ones described in the article, the lands where ancient artifacts can still be seen. Bad idea. This argument has been brewing since the early 1990's, this isn't something that began yesterday.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Ironically the protesters are the ones screaming that its theirs, all theirs. BTW beef prices are high because the Cattleman's association works hard to make it high.
Oh and that trail is only closed to motorized vehicles, non motorized vehicles can still go on that trail. That includes horses. Certainly isnt closed.
Click to expand...

where did bundy say the land the the .gov owns is his? and yes he does own land in that area just not some areas his cattle graze.
SO your saying subsidizing no work F!$k's with healthcare is good but helping a hard working american to help the american people eat cheaper beef is bad?
really???
 
votemout said:
where did bundy say the land the the .gov owns is his? and yes he does own land in that area just not some areas his cattle graze.
SO your saying subsidizing no work F!$k's with healthcare is good but helping a hard working american to help the american people eat cheaper beef is bad?
really???
Click to expand...

First Bundy tried to claim his Grandad, then his Dad, and now he bought the water rights to GOVERNMENT land. None of them did. He is attempting to claim 'ancestral rights' to the Federal lands- saying his maternal side ranched the Federal land BEFORE the BLM organised the land. He lied.

The Gubmint helps thousands of ranchers produce beef- through USDA extension services, land grant university research, direct payments for croplands- there is no direct payment for grazing acres. Ranchers get many tax breaks. Howsomever the Gubmint should not let one lying, ungrateful criminal get away with using land for free when thousands of other ranchers obey the rules and make a profit. I obey the laws, make a profit... I OBJECT!!!!!!

Now about what Bundy's herd numbers mean-

Total beef herd size USA- 2013 approx 89.3 MILLION.
number of cattle operations- over 700,000
90% of herds are less than 100 head (Bundy's herd has many numbers attached to it, the lowest is 500 head- he owns 160 acres, takes approx 20 acres of land per cow in Nevada)
33.6 MILLION beefs go to slaughter at official USDA certified plants
Nevada ranks 37th in beef herd size. It is .52% of the national total.

So the price of beef will NOT be affected if ALL of Bundy's cows are plowed into the ground. :roll:

What would help make cheap beef is the end of a multiyear drought in the top 5 producing states (50%)

So to sum up for those with the attention span of a gnat on crack-

Bundy HAS claimed Federal land as his

ALL his cows could die tomorrow and the price of ground chuck would never notice.
 
AJiveMan said:
They claim the drought forced prices to rise, all that, and probably received some money from the gubbermint they hate so much because their cattle suffered through the drought. Check it out, in 2011 over $303 million was given to cattle ranchers.
Click to expand...

I R A rancher... the payments have been sooooo substantial my herd went from 95 or so to 20 momma cows... :shock:

The amount of money a RANCHER sees in direct payments from Uncla Sugar is low... remember many other people are involved with beefs between the momma cow dropping a calf and the steer meeting his end 18 to 24 months later. Something city folks should remember is the rancher has to be in the insurance program to receive anything but disaster money, so the amount paid out is only half the story- we pay IN to be eligible.

The drought has been going on for years and every year herd numbers drop- last I heard to 1952 levels. Back then to USofA population was HALF what is is now. Not difficult math- twice as many folks wanting beef... what do you think prices will do? :confused:

Now let's check out 2011- divided by the number of cows in this country that is roughly 8 bucks a head. 50 pounds of sack feed is more than that, but lets say it lasts for a week... the feds just gave some cow a week longer to stay on the place- IF every penny went to the rancher, which it doesn't.

Please note your same source says 2102 was $58 million... but I assure you the drought was still hitting hard. To give an idea- this year's cattle sorting and spring sell off on our ranch- we took 2 trailer loads to Apache Livestock Auction (we used to haul 6)- Apache used to sell for two days each week and both days run into the night. These days it is one day and they finish up in time to get a nap before dinner... :3oops:

The 6 trailer loads averaged 300 to 500 a head depending on the number of old momma cows we were getting rid of- the 2 loads this year averaged 1000 a head and some were REAL thin momma cows. The one day sale started at 10 (instead of 8) and was done by 3:30 (instead of dark)

Doesn't look good for cheap burgers for a few more years...
 
notquiteright said:
I R A rancher... the payments have been sooooo substantial my herd went from 95 or so to 20 momma cows... :shock:

The amount of money a RANCHER sees in direct payments from Uncla Sugar is low... remember many other people are involved with beefs between the momma cow dropping a calf and the steer meeting his end 18 to 24 months later. Something city folks should remember is the rancher has to be in the insurance program to receive anything but disaster money, so the amount paid out is only half the story- we pay IN to be eligible.

The drought has been going on for years and every year herd numbers drop- last I heard to 1952 levels. Back then to USofA population was HALF what is is now. Not difficult math- twice as many folks wanting beef... what do you think prices will do? :confused:

Now let's check out 2011- divided by the number of cows in this country that is roughly 8 bucks a head. 50 pounds of sack feed is more than that, but lets say it lasts for a week... the feds just gave some cow a week longer to stay on the place- IF every penny went to the rancher, which it doesn't.

Please note your same source says 2102 was $58 million... but I assure you the drought was still hitting hard. To give an idea- this year's cattle sorting and spring sell off on our ranch- we took 2 trailer loads to Apache Livestock Auction (we used to haul 6)- Apache used to sell for two days each week and both days run into the night. These days it is one day and they finish up in time to get a nap before dinner... :3oops:

The 6 trailer loads averaged 300 to 500 a head depending on the number of old momma cows we were getting rid of- the 2 loads this year averaged 1000 a head and some were REAL thin momma cows. The one day sale started at 10 (instead of 8) and was done by 3:30 (instead of dark)

Doesn't look good for cheap burgers for a few more years...
Click to expand...

Beef prices are already too high, we now (my honey and I) eat more chicken and pork, but let me draw your attention to page # 8 of this circular, Mexican steaks, T - bone, $4.99 per pound.

Piggly Wiggly #209 Circulars

IMO, American beef prices are inflated for some reason, possibly beyond our control. OIL, speculators drove up oil prices in the market a few years ago, we could be seeing this with foods too.

Speculators are driving up gas prices - Opinion - Mar. 21, 2012

Markets.
 
AJiveMan said:
Beef prices are already too high, we now (my honey and I) eat more chicken and pork, but let me draw your attention to page # 8 of this circular, Mexican steaks, T - bone, $4.99 per pound. IMO, American beef prices are inflated for some reason, possibly beyond our control. OIL, speculators drove up oil prices in the market a few years ago, we could be seeing this with foods too.
Click to expand...

My wife and I don't eat beef except at the local steak house- costs about the same as raw at the supermarket but comes cooked and with sides! ;)

Our red meat is venison I shot and costs about $2 a pound in the freezer. We eat a lot of chicken.

ALL commodities are subject to 'rapist' speculation due to changes in the commodity market to bring in more investors. A few years ago the pre-harvest price for a bushel of hard red winter wheat was 12 bucks. Usually 4 bucks. Lots of reasons given for this, but they were BS to everyone with HR wheat. When it came time for farmers to dump their wheat at the local COOP guess where the price was.... 5 bucks! But we knew the wheat was there and there was no shortfall or huge demand suddenly from China- speculators.

But the price of beef has been on a steady rise for years... no rush of money driving prices up like in oil.

I wish it was a case of speculators... then I'd have those 6 trailer loads of beefs to sell at 1000 a head instead of only 2! :(

Now about Mexican beef. First Mexico's herd numbers are crashing due to overproduction and drought. They are having a massive sell-off like we did 4 or 5 years ago. They primarily produce calves to be fattened here in the US- they produce very little 'retail' meats. Approx 7 million head to feedlots in the US, 1.4 to slaughter in their home country for the US market compared to 30+ million we slaughter of our own. Mexico produces approx 4% of the world's beef and the US 25%.

While the majority of US beef is raised on private lands the majority of Mexican beef is raised 'Bundy' style on public lands where payments, right to use is a whole can of worms.

Several 'Latin' Nations have tried to enter the US market- Argentina and Brazil were pushed the most. Turns out USofA folks don't like the taste or texture of grass fed beef. These two nations have backed away from 'gaucho' beef premium cuts to medium processed cuts like canned meat.

My thought is you can't beat 5 bucks a pound for T-bone... remember I got $1.50 a pound for an animal half of which will never see a plate. 7% of that animal is t-bones or club steaks. Difficult to see how a Mexican beef can sell so cheap when I got the equiv of $3 a pound for the steer.

Try one and let us know how it tastes....
 
notquiteright said:
My wife and I don't eat beef except at the local steak house- costs about the same as raw at the supermarket but comes cooked and with sides! ;)

Our red meat is venison I shot and costs about $2 a pound in the freezer. We eat a lot of chicken.

ALL commodities are subject to 'rapist' speculation due to changes in the commodity market to bring in more investors. A few years ago the pre-harvest price for a bushel of hard red winter wheat was 12 bucks. Usually 4 bucks. Lots of reasons given for this, but they were BS to everyone with HR wheat. When it came time for farmers to dump their wheat at the local COOP guess where the price was.... 5 bucks! But we knew the wheat was there and there was no shortfall or huge demand suddenly from China- speculators.

But the price of beef has been on a steady rise for years... no rush of money driving prices up like in oil.

I wish it was a case of speculators... then I'd have those 6 trailer loads of beefs to sell at 1000 a head instead of only 2! :(

Now about Mexican beef. First Mexico's herd numbers are crashing due to overproduction and drought. They are having a massive sell-off like we did 4 or 5 years ago. They primarily produce calves to be fattened here in the US- they produce very little 'retail' meats. Approx 7 million head to feedlots in the US, 1.4 to slaughter in their home country for the US market compared to 30+ million we slaughter of our own. Mexico produces approx 4% of the world's beef and the US 25%.

While the majority of US beef is raised on private lands the majority of Mexican beef is raised 'Bundy' style on public lands where payments, right to use is a whole can of worms.

Several 'Latin' Nations have tried to enter the US market- Argentina and Brazil were pushed the most. Turns out USofA folks don't like the taste or texture of grass fed beef. These two nations have backed away from 'gaucho' beef premium cuts to medium processed cuts like canned meat.

My thought is you can't beat 5 bucks a pound for T-bone... remember I got $1.50 a pound for an animal half of which will never see a plate. 7% of that animal is t-bones or club steaks. Difficult to see how a Mexican beef can sell so cheap when I got the equiv of $3 a pound for the steer.

Try one and let us know how it tastes....
Click to expand...

Mexican beef is tough. We've had those steaks on many occasions. In fact, some of the steaks we purchased living in NM was from Mexico. You gotta beat it with a textured meat hammer, or, cut it into 1/2 inch strips and marinate in soy, teriyaki and worcestershire sauces overnight, cook indirect on a Weber with smoke chips, put 'em in a plastic bag after they cool off, the perfect jerkey snack for the trail.

The one thing about Mexican beef is there's little to no fat in the grain.

Also, my doctor told me not to eat beef because beef is fed corn, which is supposed to be bad for you, too much fat. She told me to eat goat meat, claiming it was much better for me than beef or pork...:confused:
 
AJiveMan said:
Mexican beef is tough. We've had those steaks on many occasions. In fact, some of the steaks we purchased living in NM was from Mexico. You gotta beat it with a textured meat hammer, or, cut it into 1/2 inch strips and marinate in soy, teriyaki and worcestershire sauces overnight, cook indirect on a Weber with smoke chips, put 'em in a plastic bag after they cool off, the perfect jerkey snack for the trail. The one thing about Mexican beef is there's little to no fat in the grain. Also, my doctor told me not to eat beef because beef is fed corn, which is supposed to be bad for you, too much fat. She told me to eat goat meat, claiming it was much better for me than beef or pork...
Click to expand...

All that sort of defeats the purpose of a T-bone, you are using it as a flank steak which is MUCH cheaper. I've had T-bones where you could cut the tenderloin meat with a fork. That fat in the muscle's grain is the last fat a body can take. It means the steer was morbidly obese in human terms. That marbling, as we call it, is what makes so-so cuts juicy and tasty. The problem Argie and Brazilian beef ran into is Americans rejected the taste of grass only cattle as 'gamey'.

Corn isn't the only grain fed to steers in the feedlot- is why we call them grain fed rather than corn fed. Soybeans and alfalfa is fed as well. In order to hold the fat in the muscle that muscle must be extensive- if not then shrinkage while cooking occurs. People feel robbed if their meat shrinks a great deal- which is why cheap ground beef shrinks so- water is added at the store to gain cheap weight, and the meat has not solid matrix to prevent collapse as the fat renders out.

The last 300 pounds or so of gain in a steer is the most expensive hands down. Rather large amounts of corn, soybeans, milo, alfalfa, quality hay, and buffers (pepto for cattle) are fed to make the fat build-up that gives the taste and texture Americans demand.

Goat may taste 'gamey' due to a lack of fat in the muscle, intact males, 'Billy' goats, are going to be tougher and gamier.Young does are probably the best tasting. A little corn in their diet will 'sweeten' the meat without marbling it. Red meat isn't bad, it is the marbling of fat we can't seem to get enough of that is 'bad'.

Dunno about goat, not a fan myself... I prefer venison... :peace
 
votemout said:
where did bundy say the land the the .gov owns is his? and yes he does own land in that area just not some areas his cattle graze.
SO your saying subsidizing no work F!$k's with healthcare is good but helping a hard working american to help the american people eat cheaper beef is bad?
really???
Click to expand...

Its public land managed by the BLM. Public lands belong to us right? SO we all are claiming that land is rightfully ours.

I said nothing about subsidizing the healthcare system. But since you brought it up, no I do not support subsidizing the healthcare system.

I am guessing that you figured that I am a leftist, left winger, liberal, Obama supporter or some **** like that. Sorry to disappoint you but I am not. SO you might want to readjust your argument accordingly or in this case actually get one.
 
AJiveMan said:
I know of a cattle rancher in Wyoming, they have quite the spread, all private land. When their grasses start showing signs of being over grazed, they're removed from the grazing area and fed with straw, hay and other store bought feeds.

I did some searching yesterday because I'd never heard of coyote weed, which is very poisonous, and takes the place of natural grasses caused by over grazing. There are also other plant life that are undesired and unwanted on grazing lands.

You're absolutely correct, this isn't about grazing. This is about people being anti US Government, they want what are presently government and public owned lands to be turned over to state control, and to allow states to manage lands, even the ones described in the article, the lands where ancient artifacts can still be seen. Bad idea. This argument has been brewing since the early 1990's, this isn't something that began yesterday.
Click to expand...

Actually they want all federal land to be sold off and privatized. Of course ranchers like Bundy believe that the land should be given to them.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Its public land managed by the BLM. Public lands belong to us right? SO we all are claiming that land is rightfully ours.

I said nothing about subsidizing the healthcare system. But since you brought it up, no I do not support subsidizing the healthcare system.

I am guessing that you figured that I am a leftist, left winger, liberal, Obama supporter or some **** like that. Sorry to disappoint you but I am not. SO you might want to readjust your argument accordingly or in this case actually get one.
Click to expand...

I did not even think of your political leanings. Just stating the obvious. vilify the hard working americans asking for a little help and praise the i dont want to work i need help americans. like i said bazarro world.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Actually they want all federal land to be sold off and privatized. Of course ranchers like Bundy believe that the land should be given to them.
Click to expand...

Not all ranchers feel that way though. Some in Bundy's own neighborhood think he needs to do the right thing and pay for use, like the rest of them do.

If all federal lands are privatized, we could probably look ahead and see private ownership charging for use of some federal lands which are now free for many to use and enjoy. Most of the forested land in my state was gobbled up by the state, and most all are fee use based, and you wouldn't believe the fees they charge overnight campers, it ridiculously expensive.
 
votemout said:
I did not even think of your political leanings. Just stating the obvious. vilify the hard working americans asking for a little help and praise the i dont want to work i need help americans. like i said bazarro world.
Click to expand...

You are correct that is "bazarro world" since I never said anything like that. In fact I would say that was a lie.
 
votemout said:
where did bundy say the land the the .gov owns is his? and yes he does own land in that area just not some areas his cattle graze.
SO your saying subsidizing no work F!$k's with healthcare is good but helping a hard working american to help the american people eat cheaper beef is bad?
really???
Click to expand...

well when your also helping out pore people who work an people whoa want work but are out of it and people who honestly cant work

and the hard working American is a law braking **** and has a gang of law braking ****s threatening officials

ya 1st ones good last ones bad
 
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