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Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

you can think of a handful of companies that left, plenty of companies are also locating to california, and plenty of businesses and startups are in Washington as well . and virtually none of Toyotas workers are working for minimum wage. and what the righties ignore, is that Toyota USA's factory is already in Texas and the move was to move corporate headquarters nearer to their plant, virtually no major manufacturing was done in CA. are you telling me toyotas corporate execs and senior management were making MW and so toyota moved to take advantage of a lower wage?

A single example of many businesses fleeing and relocating to other states. Got some background on that, which I can dig out if you wish. Take away is that business goes to locations where it's easier to conduct business.
 
The concept of a minimum wage is downright silly in a capitalistic economy. If you dont like your salary then go find another job, its as simple as that.

no it isn't; simply because the concept of structural forms of unemployment is even sillier regarding your line of reasoning.
 
I have to third-world countries and didn't observe prices the same, or higher than The States.

Here's a HP Envy 14-K038TU Core i5-4200U 750GB 14in Laptop - Prices in Philippines on Price Me of a computer in the Philippines - $1k-$1.3K USD with the exchange rate.
A price on a comparable PC from Amazon - $745.

But I speak of the PI too often, so here's from a blog from an expat in Ecuador:

Imported items are expensive, locally produced items are not. So, a Maytag washer/dryer could be double the cost of a similar appliance that is manufactured in Ecuador. Watch for sales and always negotiate. Furniture and mattresses are available locally so if you shop around your furnishings should be pretty reasonable. But there are things you will need that are not cheap. Electronics, TV’s, imported Smart Phones, and Computers are some of those things. So, how do you get these on a budget?

Buy technology that is a year or two old. Last years Plasma Television will be your cheapest bet on a flat screen compared to the same size LED. New technology is expensive. Sometimes twice as much. Same thing goes for computers. This years iMac desk top will cost a fortune but you can find last years PC for prices that are not to much more than what you would find in the states.


Here's a page where a guy was wondering why the heck electronics are so much more expensive in India.

"You name it; LCD/LED TVs , computer components, cellphones, home theater, ps3, Xbox are costlier compared to their price in China, South East Asia, and Usa. If one were to convert the price from US Dollars to Indian Rupees for the electronic products being sold they come out at least 30-40% cheaper in the USA !"

You'll probably find instances where hi-tech items are cheaper in a third-world nation, but they're generally at least as expensive as they are here in the states. And it's often because of the government and corruption - especially since there's less oversight of the government by the press...and less oversight of the business sector by the government.

In other words, the oh-so-holy market forces often do NOT apply as conservatives assume they should.
 
Seattle's economy will continue to grow as a whole due to corporate investment, and only the types who never make minimum wage will benefit.

I believe we need a higher minimum wage, but unless its enacted amongst a backdrop of trade and regulatory reforms a higher minimum wage will not benefit most workers.

Mmmm...I disagree that those making MW will not benefit if the MW is raised to $15 - they certainly will. But I agree that we sorely need those trade and regulatory reforms.
 
All I know is mcdonalds teenager who drools on my burger better ****ing give me better service otherwise he doesn't deserve a penny more than what he is getting already.

Better pay = better service

I demand EVERYONE being affected positively by this change up their game if they aren't doing so already, because there is a reason why someone like a relationships manager or lawyer or doctor get more money than someone who works at fast food.

You get what you pay for.

Tell me, guy - if you were getting paid peanuts at your job, would you try to be good at your job? Of course you would...in the beginning, maybe even for a few months. But if you knew down deep in your heart that no matter how hard you worked at this job, there was NO WAY you'd get paid enough to really live on at that job, that would eventually eat away at your quality of service - and your change in attitude would affect those around you, too. It's a very human thing - we're all subject to it.

If you pay crappy wages, you're going to get crappy service. That's reality, guy.

You get what you pay for.
 
YOu're doing exactly what the people who did the study and creating a scenario to sudy that gives the results you/they want. This study CHOSE two places where the differences between them was so dramatic and fulyy supported the hypothesis that they started with. It's was a goal-based study and not one that was that intended to find truth. If the idea that you and they support is so easily proven, then why use such an easily attacked methodology?? Why not take tow comparable groups of companies study them in aggregate and see how the changes effected not only them, but the communities they occupy as well?? Given a choice of doing a study the right way and doing it the wrong way, they chose the wrong way. That choice alone should send up red flags for everyone who wants to know the truth instead of just being "proven" right. Seek truth in all things, even when it makes you wrong.

Guy, you're full of it. Both businesses have the same basic model. And the ONLY reason you think the methodology is wrong is because the study is telling you something you don't want to hear.

Let me guess - you think all those scientists are wrong about anthropogenic global warming too, right?
And you think that those scientists are wrong about fracking causing earthquakes and contaminating groundwater too, right?

Yeah, I suppose it's all just part of that grand conspiracy by higher institutions of learning to turn the world into a socialist paradise....
 
Are you sure you have actually been away from Washington State. Not only is housing much cheaper in places with lower wages but so is a ton of other stuff. Why do you think BAS that the military pays is almost half in Ft Bragg NC as it is here at Ft Lewis. It is because everything is significantly cheaper not just houses. Rent included.

Also not sure what 3rd world counties you have been to but the ones I have been to food is drastically cheaper than here in the US. You can go to the Philippines and get a good sit down meal at a nice restaurant for 3 to 5 dollars US. Same as in Thailand or Bangladesh. Show me where in the US you can do that. Maybe you should try and get away from the tourist areas.

Using untrue claims does not help your cause.

1. I said that prices on housing are cheaper in other places, didn't I? But not so much the other things. Tell you what - how about you look online at the cost of everything from lawnmowers to lunchboxes - the prices at a Wal-Mart near Ft Bragg are not much different than they are at a Wal-Mart near Ft Lewis. Sorry, soldier, but you gotta get up earlier in the morning to be able to get over this retired Navy man.

2. You haven't been to the PI in a long time, have you? I have a home there and know the people and culture fairly well, I was just there in March, my son's living there, I'll be retiring there - I know a little bit of what I'm talking about. 3-5 dollars does NOT get you a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant in Manila. It'll get you an okay meal at some tindahan in the province, but even in the province that will NOT get you a "nice sit-down meal"...and in Manila the best you'll get with $5 is a burger meal at a fast-food joint. Pizza Hut there costs nearly as much as it does here - but the delivery charge is much cheaper. And you should recheck the prices in Thailand - as I recall from my port visits there, it's a bit more expensive than the PI (though I can't speak of the areas far to the north). Bangladesh, on the other hand, is a whole different ball of wax - I've no doubt you can live very cheaply there...but some things there might well cost more than here.

I do not use untrue claims - I honestly try to make sure I don't say anything I'm not confident that I can back up. If you can prove me wrong, then please do so.
 
1. I said that prices on housing are cheaper in other places, didn't I? But not so much the other things. Tell you what - how about you look online at the cost of everything from lawnmowers to lunchboxes - the prices at a Wal-Mart near Ft Bragg are not much different than they are at a Wal-Mart near Ft Lewis. Sorry, soldier, but you gotta get up earlier in the morning to be able to get over this retired Navy man.
Yes the cost of many goods are the same due to the fact that much of it is imported from countries that have very low or no MW. Things that use more local labor such as eating at local restaurants or having your grass mowed are higher here than places with lower MW. Also you said rent is not lower in low wage areas which is just wrong. The town house I lived in at Bragg was very similar to the one we first rented up here in WA. The rent was almost half back there
2. You haven't been to the PI in a long time, have you? I have a home there and know the people and culture fairly well, I was just there in March, my son's living there, I'll be retiring there - I know a little bit of what I'm talking about. 3-5 dollars does NOT get you a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant in Manila. It'll get you an okay meal at some tindahan in the province, but even in the province that will NOT get you a "nice sit-down meal"...and in Manila the best you'll get with $5 is a burger meal at a fast-food joint. Pizza Hut there costs nearly as much as it does here - but the delivery charge is much cheaper. And you should recheck the prices in Thailand - as I recall from my port visits there, it's a bit more expensive than the PI (though I can't speak of the areas far to the north). Bangladesh, on the other hand, is a whole different ball of wax - I've no doubt you can live very cheaply there...but some things there might well cost more than here.

I do not use untrue claims - I honestly try to make sure I don't say anything I'm not confident that I can back up. If you can prove me wrong, then please do so.

I was in the PI last year and yes you can get meals for that price. Of course Manilla is more expensive. It is a big city that has a much higher cost of living and they pay much higher wages than down in the southern islands. Kind of proving my point that higher wages result in higher costs. As to Thailand where were you on your port call. Right where all the other Sailors go. Do you really think the prices were not marked up due to all the Americans visiting. They often even charge tourists a different price than locals. You need to go to the non tourist areas like I said. Last time I was in Thailand me and the buddy I was with ate at a small out of the way restaurant and both our meals and a beer each cost right around 7 US. That's total not just mine.
And it's not just food but anything that isn't imported from clothes to taxi rides are much cheaper. And I am talking real taxis not Jeepneys or Tuk-Tuks

Here is a link to average food prices in Thailand. Notice that a meal in a inexpensive restaurant is right around 2 dollars and a 3 course meal for two at a midrange restaurant is just over 17 dollars or 7.5 per person. Try finding anything close to that in high wage place.

Cost of Living in Thailand. Prices in Thailand.
 
The concept of a minimum wage is downright silly in a capitalistic economy. If you dont like your salary then go find another job, its as simple as that.
Sorry, but no. It is never as simple as just going out and grabbing another job.
 
I was in the PI last year and yes you can get meals for that price. Of course Manilla is more expensive. It is a big city that has a much higher cost of living and they pay much higher wages than down in the southern islands. Kind of proving my point that higher wages result in higher costs. As to Thailand where were you on your port call. Right where all the other Sailors go. Do you really think the prices were not marked up due to all the Americans visiting. They often even charge tourists a different price than locals. You need to go to the non tourist areas like I said. Last time I was in Thailand me and the buddy I was with ate at a small out of the way restaurant and both our meals and a beer each cost right around 7 US. That's total not just mine.
And it's not just food but anything that isn't imported from clothes to taxi rides are much cheaper. And I am talking real taxis not Jeepneys or Tuk-Tuks

Here is a link to average food prices in Thailand. Notice that a meal in a inexpensive restaurant is right around 2 dollars and a 3 course meal for two at a midrange restaurant is just over 17 dollars or 7.5 per person. Try finding anything close to that in high wage place.

Cost of Living in Thailand. Prices in Thailand.

Then you were really out in the bundoks...especially if you were where I'm pretty sure you went. Judging prices in the Philippines as a whole by what you saw down there is like trying to judge prices in the States by what you see in the MS Delta.

Either way, you did not have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 dollars. For instance, here's an example of one such place in the Mindanao and Sulu area where the main course if P200 - that's about $5 by itself, before any appetizers, sides, or especially drinks (alcoholic or not). Here's a Vietnamese restaurant - and such are not normally known to be especially expensive - in Davao where the main dishes cost about P250 - a little over six dollars - again, before appetizers, sides, or drinks of any kind. Okay, guy? There's a lot of Americans in the PI who know it better than I do - most of whom are retired military like myself - but you ain't one of them.

Where did I go on my port calls in Thailand? Each time, first to Pattaya and then to Bangkok. And I would caution you against trying to use Numbeo to back you up - they're obviously off base since Lonely Planet - which is a well-regarded and trusted source by travelers who know the areas really well - has been around long before the Internet, and says something quite different from Numbeo. See the restaurants on this page to better judge prices in Baht.

Oh, and did you notice that you sorta changed your tune? You said one could have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 in the PI..."Same as in Thailand or Bangladesh". Now you're saying a mid-range meal in Thailand for $7.5. Let's not move the goal posts, please. And you really shouldn't compare Thailand to Bangladesh - I haven't been to Bangladesh, but I don't think I'd be far off if I said the two are night-and-day.
 
Then you were really out in the bundoks...especially if you were where I'm pretty sure you went. Judging prices in the Philippines as a whole by what you saw down there is like trying to judge prices in the States by what you see in the MS Delta.

Either way, you did not have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 dollars. For instance, here's an example of one such place in the Mindanao and Sulu area where the main course if P200 - that's about $5 by itself, before any appetizers, sides, or especially drinks (alcoholic or not). Here's a Vietnamese restaurant - and such are not normally known to be especially expensive - in Davao where the main dishes cost about P250 - a little over six dollars - again, before appetizers, sides, or drinks of any kind. Okay, guy? There's a lot of Americans in the PI who know it better than I do - most of whom are retired military like myself - but you ain't one of them.

Where did I go on my port calls in Thailand? Each time, first to Pattaya and then to Bangkok. And I would caution you against trying to use Numbeo to back you up - they're obviously off base since Lonely Planet - which is a well-regarded and trusted source by travelers who know the areas really well - has been around long before the Internet, and says something quite different from Numbeo. See the restaurants on this page to better judge prices in Baht.

Oh, and did you notice that you sorta changed your tune? You said one could have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 in the PI..."Same as in Thailand or Bangladesh". Now you're saying a mid-range meal in Thailand for $7.5. Let's not move the goal posts, please. And you really shouldn't compare Thailand to Bangladesh - I haven't been to Bangladesh, but I don't think I'd be far off if I said the two are night-and-day.

Wow really a difference of 2.5 dollars is now moving the goal posts. Get real. Besides what started this whole discussion was you saying food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. So where can you get a 3 course meal for 7.5 dollars in the US. You can barely eat at Mcdonalds for that. And seeing as the inexpensive restaurant was 2 dollars I think the average is on my side not yours.
 
Wow really a difference of 2.5 dollars is now moving the goal posts. Get real. Besides what started this whole discussion was you saying food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. So where can you get a 3 course meal for 7.5 dollars in the US. You can barely eat at Mcdonalds for that. And seeing as the inexpensive restaurant was 2 dollars I think the average is on my side not yours.

A difference of $2.5 sure doesn't sound like much, does it? Except that it's 50-83% HIGHER than your earlier estimate. Context, guy.

And you want to point out that $7.5 meal in Thailand...dude - try affording that on LOCAL wages, because even in "high-wage" Manila, it was NORMAL for the locals to get less than $4/day. I was paying our full-time maid P1000 - about $25 - per freaking week, and my wife's family was complaining we were paying her too much! And this was "high-wage" Manila, mind you.

Sorta puts that really cheap $7.5 meal in a different context, doesn't it?

Try again, guy - we can do this all day long.
 
A difference of $2.5 sure doesn't sound like much, does it? Except that it's 50-83% HIGHER than your earlier estimate. Context, guy.

And you want to point out that $7.5 meal in Thailand...dude - try affording that on LOCAL wages, because even in "high-wage" Manila, it was NORMAL for the locals to get less than $4/day. I was paying our full-time maid P1000 - about $25 - per freaking week, and my wife's family was complaining we were paying her too much! And this was "high-wage" Manila, mind you.

Sorta puts that really cheap $7.5 meal in a different context, doesn't it?

Try again, guy - we can do this all day long.
First of all the inexpensive restaurant is 2 dollars and the 7.5 dollar meal is the average for the entire country. The much higher prices in Manila and other tourist destinations bring the average up. You can with out a doubt get a meal at a restaurant that is not fast food for 5 dollars. You really are arguing nonsense here.

Secondly and most important is that it seems that you forgot what you were trying to argue in the first place. You claimed that food was not cheaper in 3rd world countries even though they have much lower wages. The cost in the US is 10 and the inexpensive restaurant and 45 at the mid range. So how does that back up your claim that food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. Kind of proves you wrong does it not.
 
First of all the inexpensive restaurant is 2 dollars and the 7.5 dollar meal is the average for the entire country. The much higher prices in Manila and other tourist destinations bring the average up. You can with out a doubt get a meal at a restaurant that is not fast food for 5 dollars. You really are arguing nonsense here.

Secondly and most important is that it seems that you forgot what you were trying to argue in the first place. You claimed that food was not cheaper in 3rd world countries even though they have much lower wages. The cost in the US is 10 and the inexpensive restaurant and 45 at the mid range. So how does that back up your claim that food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. Kind of proves you wrong does it not.

Guy, you're really digging yourself in deeper and deeper.

1. Here's the price list for Jollibee in the Philippines - ALL through the Philippines, from "high-wage" Manila to low-wage wherever. You can get a meal there for two bucks (80 pisos)...but lemme tell you, it ain't much of a meal...and if you know anything about the PI, you know that drink is about the size of what would be called a "courtesy cup"...if we're being generous about it. On a side note, I just went to Jollibee yesterday - there's one at Southcenter.

2. And YES, the food is NOT much cheaper. Tell me, guy - did you LIVE there? Did you go shopping at the local supermarkets or down to the outdoor market? I did - and except for certain things, food is NOT much cheaper in supermarkets there than it is here. If you want to live on the cheap - which we did when I started running too low on funds to afford the supermarket - then you go to the outdoor market called the 'palengki' (can't remember the spelling). Food is significantly cheaper there...and it's all buyer beware. Sanitation? Hah! Flies crawl all over the meat in the open air, and they don't even try to shoo them away. You do not know how old the meat or the fish is, or whether it was diseased before it was slaughtered. The veggies, though, are a safer bet if you know what to look for (and I mostly do).

So...yeah, if you don't care about what you and I know of as common-sense sanitation procedures for meat and other foods, then yes, food's significantly cheaper there. But if you want to be reasonably sure that you're not going to get e. coli or whatever, then you're going to be paying nearly as much as you do here.

3. But that's just food...which means we got away from my original point about how high-tech items like computers and cars are generally more expensive - and sometimes twice as expensive - as here in the states. Low wages didn't bring those prices down, did they?

I'll be there later this year, and I'll probably retire there late next year. Drop by and I'll show you just how expensive it can get. There's a place called Fort Bonifacio - it's got showrooms for Maserati, Lamborghini, and Rolls Royce. Go about a klick in any direction you want, and you're back among the squatters.
 
Guy, you're really digging yourself in deeper and deeper.

1. Here's the price list for Jollibee in the Philippines - ALL through the Philippines, from "high-wage" Manila to low-wage wherever. You can get a meal there for two bucks (80 pisos)...but lemme tell you, it ain't much of a meal...and if you know anything about the PI, you know that drink is about the size of what would be called a "courtesy cup"...if we're being generous about it. On a side note, I just went to Jollibee yesterday - there's one at Southcenter.

2. And YES, the food is NOT much cheaper. Tell me, guy - did you LIVE there? Did you go shopping at the local supermarkets or down to the outdoor market? I did - and except for certain things, food is NOT much cheaper in supermarkets there than it is here. If you want to live on the cheap - which we did when I started running too low on funds to afford the supermarket - then you go to the outdoor market called the 'palengki' (can't remember the spelling). Food is significantly cheaper there...and it's all buyer beware. Sanitation? Hah! Flies crawl all over the meat in the open air, and they don't even try to shoo them away. You do not know how old the meat or the fish is, or whether it was diseased before it was slaughtered. The veggies, though, are a safer bet if you know what to look for (and I mostly do).

So...yeah, if you don't care about what you and I know of as common-sense sanitation procedures for meat and other foods, then yes, food's significantly cheaper there. But if you want to be reasonably sure that you're not going to get e. coli or whatever, then you're going to be paying nearly as much as you do here.

3. But that's just food...which means we got away from my original point about how high-tech items like computers and cars are generally more expensive - and sometimes twice as expensive - as here in the states. Low wages didn't bring those prices down, did they?

I'll be there later this year, and I'll probably retire there late next year. Drop by and I'll show you just how expensive it can get. There's a place called Fort Bonifacio - it's got showrooms for Maserati, Lamborghini, and Rolls Royce. Go about a klick in any direction you want, and you're back among the squatters.

I did live there. I have ate at jollibee many times.
How do you figure that something that is around 7 times less expensive not much cheaper. What qualifies as much cheaper to you. While I lived there I had a cleaning lady that bought all my food did all the cooking cleaning and laundry. I paid her 60 dollars a week. That covered all the food and her wages. And I ate very good. I spend more than that here in the US and I have to do all the work.

Do you really not know why high tech stuff is not cheaper there. It's because it is not made there. Why would a company like Apple or Sony or whatever company charge less for there product in different countries. It costs them more or less the same to make an iPhone no matter where the thing it is sold at. It's common sence really.
Things that are made there like some clothing and other goods are much cheaper because the companies don't have to pay as much in labor.
Yes I am well aware that there are some rich areas in the PI but what you don't seem to understand is that none of that cheap PI labor went into building any of those nice cars so why would they be cheaper. This is not really a hard concept.
 
Several things are important:

1. The article notes broad business support for the minimum wage hike. This support is not an anomaly. One can't look at all local and regional economies as being the same. Seattle has a knowledge-based, relatively high-income economy. Hence, for many businesses, the gradual hike to $15 per hour will largely be irrelevant, as they already pay more than that figure.

2. Some quick data:

Current unemployment rate in Seattle (April 2014): 5.9% vs. 6.3% nationwide

Table 1. Civilian labor force and unemployment by state and metropolitan area

Bachelor's Degree or Higher (Age 25 and older): 56.5% vs. 28.5% nationwide
Median annual household income: $63,470 vs. $53,046 nationwide

USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau and Seattle (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

3. Data on economic growth (data on jobs and industries is included in the links):

Real GDP for the Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue MSA increased as follows:
2010: 3.1% (National: 2.5%)
2011: 3.3% (National: 1.8%)
2012: 4.6% (National: 2.8%)

Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA Economy at a Glance and http://bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_metro/2013/pdf/gdp_metro0913.pdf

In sum, the structural characteristics of Seattle's economy, which is more knowledge-intensive than the economy nationwide and more concentrated in high-growth/high-income sectors, probably makes the minimum wage figure much less important than it would be in other parts of the USA. One should not assume that all locations could support the kind of minimum wage legislation Seattle is pursuing. That is not the case.
 
no it isn't; simply because the concept of structural forms of unemployment is even sillier regarding your line of reasoning.
LOL structural unemployment? Youve never heard of retraining? Phu-leaze.
 
Guy, you're full of it. Both businesses have the same basic model. And the ONLY reason you think the methodology is wrong is because the study is telling you something you don't want to hear.

Let me guess - you think all those scientists are wrong about anthropogenic global warming too, right?
And you think that those scientists are wrong about fracking causing earthquakes and contaminating groundwater too, right?

Yeah, I suppose it's all just part of that grand conspiracy by higher institutions of learning to turn the world into a socialist paradise....

Demanding science instead of emotional responses always seems to bring out he worst in some liberals. You'll ignore truth in favor of your emotionally satisfying outrage. Sad...
 
Demanding science instead of emotional responses always seems to bring out he worst in some liberals. You'll ignore truth in favor of your emotionally satisfying outrage. Sad...

The only science you're demanding is science that says what you want to hear, what you've already decided that it must say.

Which is why only 6% of ALL American scientists are Republicans - the rest are independents and Democrats...and mostly liberal.
 
I did live there. I have ate at jollibee many times.

Then you know that a Jollibee yumburger costs the same thing in the bundoks of Mindanao as they do in Manila. Thank you for proving my point on that one!

How do you figure that something that is around 7 times less expensive not much cheaper. What qualifies as much cheaper to you. While I lived there I had a cleaning lady that bought all my food did all the cooking cleaning and laundry. I paid her 60 dollars a week. That covered all the food and her wages. And I ate very good. I spend more than that here in the US and I have to do all the work.

You paid a lot less because she was buying the food at the palengki and not at the much-more expensive (and much less unsanitary) supermarket. And you can only eat so much food, guy.

Do you really not know why high tech stuff is not cheaper there. It's because it is not made there. Why would a company like Apple or Sony or whatever company charge less for there product in different countries. It costs them more or less the same to make an iPhone no matter where the thing it is sold at. It's common sence really.
Things that are made there like some clothing and other goods are much cheaper because the companies don't have to pay as much in labor.

The reason the imported goods are so expensive there is NOT because they are imported. Otherwise, they'd cost the same that they cost here. The REASON they cost so much more is that import duties is one of the major - and perhaps THE major - source of tax revenue for the Filipino government. They don't have a reliable system of collecting income tax, and their method of collecting VAT at the register is only really effective in malls and nicer locations, so the government has to find other ways of making money - and the most reliable way they can do that is by charging duties at ports of entry. How do I know this? I was looking at shipping a car there, and the government was going to charge me 100% of its original cost in order to bring it there. They tried to charge me $800 for shipping a living room set there, but my brother in law handled that with a few thousand pisos under the table.

Again, it's not the cost of the import - it's the cost of the tariffs and duties imposed by the government, since that's one of the only reliable ways they have of collecting tax revenue.

Like I said, soldier, ya gotta get up a bit earlier in the morning to get over this old retired sailor.

Yes I am well aware that there are some rich areas in the PI but what you don't seem to understand is that none of that cheap PI labor went into building any of those nice cars so why would they be cheaper. This is not really a hard concept.

No, what YOU don't seem to understand is that it's not a matter of cheap labor, as I showed you above.
 
Then you know that a Jollibee yumburger costs the same thing in the bundoks of Mindanao as they do in Manila. Thank you for proving my point on that one!
And how does that price and Mcdonalds price compare to prices here in the US. Thanks for proving my point[/P]

You paid a lot less because she was buying the food at the palengki and not at the much-more expensive (and much less unsanitary) supermarket. And you can only eat so much food, guy.
wrong again. She bought all of the food at the Supermarket. She had to bring back every receipt. Nice try though.


The reason the imported goods are so expensive there is NOT because they are imported. Otherwise, they'd cost the same that they cost here. The REASON they cost so much more is that import duties is one of the major - and perhaps THE major - source of tax revenue for the Filipino government. They don't have a reliable system of collecting income tax, and their method of collecting VAT at the register is only really effective in malls and nicer locations, so the government has to find other ways of making money - and the most reliable way they can do that is by charging duties at ports of entry. How do I know this? I was looking at shipping a car there, and the government was going to charge me 100% of its original cost in order to bring it there. They tried to charge me $800 for shipping a living room set there, but my brother in law handled that with a few thousand pisos under the table.

Again, it's not the cost of the import - it's the cost of the tariffs and duties imposed by the government, since that's one of the only reliable ways they have of collecting tax revenue.
I am well aware of that and it has nothing to do with labor whatsoever. That was my point. When local labor has almost nothing to do with a product how exactly do you think it would effect the price one way or the other. You were trying to use the fact that because imported items are expensive it shows that low labor does not lower the cost of items. Local labor needs to be involved in a product to effect the price. Things that involve local labor like food and services are much lower there.

Like I said, soldier, ya gotta get up a bit earlier in the morning to get over this old retired sailor.



No, what YOU don't seem to understand is that it's not a matter of cheap labor, as I showed you above.


You didn't prove anything. Tell me why do you think things that involve decent amounts of local labor are significantly cheaper in the PI.
 
You didn't prove anything. Tell me why do you think things that involve decent amounts of local labor are significantly cheaper in the PI.

You dodged the point entirely. If the cost of electronics, cars, and other high-tech items costs twice as much as it does here, WHY do they cost that much when the SAME imports cost so much less here? There's only one possible answer: tariffs and duties.
 
Singapore has the most numbers of millionaires in the world and they have no acute poverty. Nobody is homeless there- its the one country where I never saw a homeless man living on the streets. And guess what, they have no minimum wage. Case closed.
 
You dodged the point entirely. If the cost of electronics, cars, and other high-tech items costs twice as much as it does here, WHY do they cost that much when the SAME imports cost so much less here? There's only one possible answer: tariffs and duties.

Wow how do you not get this. Of course it is tariffs and duties when did I ever say anything different.

We are talking about the effects low labor wages have on the costs of goods. Items that are imported have almost no local labor costs in them so the local wage has virtually no effect on the cost of an item.
You were arguing that the lower labor in 3rd world countries does not cause items to cost less. Obviously an item that doesn't use hardly any of that local labor to be produced will not be effected by the labor rate. Items that need local labor to be produced like food or services are much cheaper there.

You arguing what things like cars and other imported items cost and why they cost what they do has virtually no bearing on this conversation.
 
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