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Report shows violence against rangers rising, sequestration likely to worsen

AJiveMan said:
Not, unless your neighbor is involved with some sort of militia group.
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1: Didn't say it was my neighbor.

2: You're right though, it wasn't a militia member that left the bomb. It was a kid that was threatening a teacher. Now, knowing that isn't it possible that those bombs that were left in the National Forrest was done by one person not tied to a militia group? And as such your statement of...

And to think that somehow, some way that a militia isn't involved in the planting of pipe bombs in BLM and Forest Services offices and on a forest service worker's vehicle is extremely naive.
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Without any evidence linking militias to the bomb could have been done by a lone individual pissed at the BLM because he has the perception that the government, through the BLM, is trying to take peoples rights away? Using your logic so far it is perfectly acceptable to blame all liberals as wanting to ban guns because of Diane Fienstiens attempts and beliefs of banning all guns possible.
 
Kal'Stang said:
1: Didn't say it was my neighbor.

2: You're right though, it wasn't a militia member that left the bomb. It was a kid that was threatening a teacher. Now, knowing that isn't it possible that those bombs that were left in the National Forrest was done by one person not tied to a militia group? And as such your statement of...



Without any evidence linking militias to the bomb could have been done by a lone individual pissed at the BLM because he has the perception that the government, through the BLM, is trying to take peoples rights away? Using your logic so far it is perfectly acceptable to blame all liberals as wanting to ban guns because of Diane Fienstiens attempts and beliefs of banning all guns possible.
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No, no, no, that's a little too twisty for me to believe.

Well shucks, I occasionally side with liburuls, and cons too, and I even own a few firearms. I don't see liburuls overturning any portion of our constitutional rights to bear arms yet, but, there's laws we all must abide by. There's too many checks and balances, too many hoops to jump through to change the constitution. The senate makeup in primarily democrat, and the most recent attempt to legislate new gun laws was shot down (so to speak) so, with knowing that, I believe your statement about liburuls wanting to ban guns, is at best, a stretch of imagination.
 
AJiveMan said:
No, no, no, that's a little too twisty for me to believe.

Well shucks, I occasionally side with liburuls, and cons too, and I even own a few firearms. I don't see liburuls overturning any portion of our constitutional rights to bear arms yet, but, there's laws we all must abide by. There's too many checks and balances, too many hoops to jump through to change the constitution. The senate makeup in primarily democrat, and the most recent attempt to legislate new gun laws was shot down (so to speak) so, with knowing that, I believe your statement about liburuls wanting to ban guns, is at best, a stretch of imagination.
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So why is it a stretch for some pissed off camper thats mad at the government to leave a pipe bomb in a national forrest instead of the militia having done it?
 
Kal'Stang said:
So why is it a stretch for some pissed off camper thats mad at the government to leave a pipe bomb in a national forrest instead of the militia having done it?
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I believe most campers go to camp, not to plant incendiary devices to harm people doing their jobs in the field. Unless of course this is a new tactic to instill fear into the daily operations of people that are supervisors or administrative personnel. I wouldn't think there would be a reason for wanting to cause bodily injury to a person just doing their daily tasks, other than that.
 
AJiveMan said:
I believe most campers go to camp, not to plant incendiary devices to harm people doing their jobs in the field. Unless of course this is a new tactic to instill fear into the daily operations of people that are supervisors or administrative personnel. I wouldn't think there would be a reason for wanting to cause bodily injury to a person just doing their daily tasks, other than that.
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You would be right that most campers go to camp and not set up bombs. But then most people that carry fertilizer in their trucks don't blow up buildings with that fertilizer either. Yet it happens. Just because you don't think it can't happen doesn't mean that it can't actually happen. Unless you can provide proof that militias did set up those bombs then you have no ground to stand on. And so far you haven't provided any proof what so ever.
 
Kal'Stang said:
You would be right that most campers go to camp and not set up bombs. But then most people that carry fertilizer in their trucks don't blow up buildings with that fertilizer either. Yet it happens. Just because you don't think it can't happen doesn't mean that it can't actually happen. Unless you can provide proof that militias did set up those bombs then you have no ground to stand on. And so far you haven't provided any proof what so ever.
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I don't need to provide proof of anything. All I see is this rhetoric and threats aimed towards the government, and read a few articles about how they could or might be a militia group, and that would be enough to convince me that they must be the troublemakers. Normal people don't do such things.

Most people carry fertilizer and their trucks blow up? Never heard of that. I've heard of fertilizer plants blowing up, and once a truck at the Alfred P. Murrah federal building, but other than that, no. I've heard of fuel tank trucks blowing up too.

Why anyone would want to kill a forest service or BLM employee doing their jobs is beyond comprehension, the people in the field do not write the laws. And you really believe campers are to blame for making pipe bombs and leaving them on public lands?

A person hauling fertilizer in the back of their truck is not automatically suspect of being in a militia or terrorist group.

I think you're stretching or reaching for something here, I'm not sure what though.
 
Kal'Stang said:
That right there says it all.
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If you think so.
Who planted pipe bombs in BLM and forest service offices in your opinion? campers? girl scouts selling cookies?
 
AJiveMan said:
Report shows violence against rangers rising, sequestration likely to worsen | Wilderness.org


Read more...
Militia Link Suspected In Acts Against Federal Land Workers The Fbi Is Examining March Bombings Of Forest Service In Nevada. - Philly.com



And so, now it's come to being violent towards people working in the field who are employed by the US Government as Forest Service and BLM people.

This won't come to an end until more government employees are injured or killed by just performing their jobs. Then the government might do something about finding these nut jobs, arresting them and getting them into courts.

It must be pretty bad for people just doing their jobs having to look over their shoulders all the time, wondering if someone is going to attack them.
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It occurs to me that the violent so called "wise use" people and the ecoterrorists are all cut from the same sort of cloth.
 
AJiveMan said:
If you think so.
Who planted pipe bombs in BLM and forest service offices in your opinion? campers? girl scouts selling cookies?
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Could have been anyone. :shrug: I require proof before forming such opinions. I try not to let my bias rule me.
 
Goshin said:
The KGB were just doing their jobs too...
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If any Federal agency was equivalent to the KGB then you and all dissidents like you would be in a Gulag camp.

The biggest danger to our country comes from that segment of the population which is aggressively and willfully ignorant. You are a perfect example. You are a menace.
 
WCH said:
When it come to people and their private possessions (or just privacy) there are very few things that get the FedGov's attention.

Here's an example of 'tinkering' the FedGov has done to cause people's distrust and anger.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/antiquities/antiquities.pdf

Don't get me wrong here, I'm all about protecting the wilderness areas of this country but, there needs to be a damn good reason why the FedGov wants to own so much of the western US.
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i would like to read this link of yours, but most of the pages are too small to make out. Can you provide a link to a properly formatted site?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Could have been anyone. :shrug: I require proof before forming such opinions. I try not to let my bias rule me.
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I guess what he wants us to do is round up all possible groups that would do this and release them one at a time when they prove their innocence.
 
USViking said:
i would like to read this link of yours, but most of the pages are too small to make out. Can you provide a link to a properly formatted site?
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I was having the same problem so I zoomed them in. It's a government website.Go figure.
 
Goshin said:
That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the point is that someone can be "just doing their job" and still be oppressing people.


Do I think that, by and large, the average Ranger or BLM employee is equivalent to the KGB or engaged in oppression? No. Do I support indiscriminate violence against same? No.

But as I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) there are REASONS why there is a push-back going on, and it involved Federal land grabs and numerous offenses against property owners in certain states, and heavy-handed Fed actions.


The thing that ought to concern everyone is that we've reached a point where grievances against the People have caused some to start viewing any Fedgov agent as an enemy... and to recognize that the reasons why are NOT simply "militia are violent for no reason".
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They will only accept a history of grievances as an excuse for hostilities against the US government if you are a foreigner. If you are a citizen you should expect to lose your land and be happy about it.
 
Goshin said:
That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the point is that someone can be "just doing their job" and still be oppressing people.


Do I think that, by and large, the average Ranger or BLM employee is equivalent to the KGB or engaged in oppression? No. Do I support indiscriminate violence against same? No.

But as I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) there are REASONS why there is a push-back going on, and it involved Federal land grabs and numerous offenses against property owners in certain states, and heavy-handed Fed actions.


The thing that ought to concern everyone is that we've reached a point where grievances against the People have caused some to start viewing any Fedgov agent as an enemy... and to recognize that the reasons why are NOT simply "militia are violent for no reason".
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You don't help the situation when you compare BLM employees to the KGB. First post in the thread and you pull a Godwin.


You seem confused about just who is grabbing whose land out here in the west. It's the states that are trying to grab the land...not the federal government. Here's the kicker.....the BLM charges a grazing fee of $1.35 per head of cattle...and the state of Nevada charges $12. Is that the state rights that Bundy is fighting for when he says he'll only pay grazing fees to the state? I don't think any rancher in his right mind would agree with Bundy on this issue. Bundy is just a free loading welfare queen.....nothing more...nothing less.


So how does charging less for grazing fees than any private rancher or state government translate into "abuse" and "KGB"?
 
Moot said:
You don't help the situation when you compare BLM employees to the KGB. First post in the thread and you pull a Godwin.


You seem confused about just who is grabbing whose land out here in the west. It's the states that are trying to grab the land...not the federal government. Here's the kicker.....the BLM charges a grazing fee of $1.35 per head of cattle...and the state of Nevada charges $12. Is that the state rights that Bundy is fighting for when he says he'll only pay grazing fees to the state? I don't think any rancher in his right mind would agree with Bundy on this issue. Bundy is just a free loading welfare queen.....nothing more...nothing less.


So how does charging less for grazing fees than any private rancher or state government translate into "abuse" and "KGB"?
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How dare they charge me less! Why, it's just Communism I say, no different from the KGB to charge $1.35 when they could charge $12! It's, why, it must be that income redistribution stuff we keep hearing so much about! Marxism, I say, Marxism pure and simple. Charge me the whole $12 or get off my... I mean your land and leave me alone. I don't recognize the federal government's existence anyway.
 
Dittohead not! said:
How dare they charge me less! Why, it's just Communism I say, no different from the KGB to charge $1.35 when they could charge $12! It's, why, it must be that income redistribution stuff we keep hearing so much about! Marxism, I say, Marxism pure and simple. Charge me the whole $12 or get off my... I mean your land and leave me alone. I don't recognize the federal government's existence anyway.
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I hope you're being sarcastic. lol

What Bundy is doing is no different than if let his cows graze on private land and then not only refuse to pay for it but remove his cows as well. Its stealing.
 
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USViking said:
If any Federal agency was equivalent to the KGB then you and all dissidents like you would be in a Gulag camp.

....
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Give it time. :mrgreen:
 
Goshin said:
I wonder if the OP were this outraged when ELF and ALF were spiking trees and injuring or killing people cutting timber?
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ELF and ALF have never killed or injured anyone. They only attack property whereas right wing activists and militias attack people.
 
AJiveMan said:
Report shows violence against rangers rising, sequestration likely to worsen | Wilderness.org


Read more...
Militia Link Suspected In Acts Against Federal Land Workers The Fbi Is Examining March Bombings Of Forest Service In Nevada. - Philly.com



And so, now it's come to being violent towards people working in the field who are employed by the US Government as Forest Service and BLM people.

This won't come to an end until more government employees are injured or killed by just performing their jobs. Then the government might do something about finding these nut jobs, arresting them and getting them into courts.

It must be pretty bad for people just doing their jobs having to look over their shoulders all the time, wondering if someone is going to attack them.
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Not advocating violence against these BLM and Forest Service workers, but these folks should spend more time doing something about the thousands of illegal pot growers operated by Mexican drug cartels than they do hassling ranchers, loggers, miners and general outdoor enthusiasts---- in my opinion.
 
Del Zeppnile said:
Not advocating violence against these BLM and Forest Service workers, but these folks should spend more time doing something about the thousands of illegal pot growers operated by Mexican drug cartels than they do hassling ranchers, loggers, miners and general outdoor enthusiasts---- in my opinion.
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I hope you're aware of the fact that BLM & Forest Service have a limited number of LE officers. Add to that cuts in funding to those agencies.
 
Edit post # 98.

Fighting forest fires takes a lot of money too, it's a drain on their resources and a big drain on the pocketbook.

I hope we don't experience wildfires as massive as the ones in the past few years, but they're still in a drought situation out west, and mother nature isn't cooperating weather wise.
 
Goshin said:
I wonder if the OP were this outraged when ELF and ALF were spiking trees and injuring or killing people cutting timber?
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Those people are as just crazy as the ones wishing to harm government workers. Why harm someone just because it's their job to cut down trees? They do not change bureaucratic ways over night and neither does any one else for that matter. But, keeping to the same idea, it's just as crazy to be harming a government worker just doing his/her job too.
 
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