Western states move to take over federal land

Empirica said:

History is ripe with examples of long-time tolerances of injustice until one brave soul stands up and says enough!

When that one brave soul stands alone, tyranny prevails but when other brave souls join in, tyranny is defeated_

Click to expand...

It would help if the right were more consistent regarding Individual Liberty and forms of "double-taxation" since we already pay taxes for Government.

Empirica said:

I highly suspect that you know exactly what all of this "Bundy crap" is about Rabbit_
but
Like Ecofarm, you have no sensible or rational defense for your big-government position_
and
Like Ecofarm, you've had to resort to the same frivolous tactic of diversion via comedy_

Click to expand...

Is that against DP? Okay, to be serious, I do believe that this is the same thing that happened with Sagebrush Rebellion. Alec was behind it. They claimed it themselves. It's a land grab.

Empirica said:

Unbelievable :shock: Have you maybe been in a coma for twenty years??? Seriously; I am not flame baiting either!

Click to expand...

while i disagree, we will have to let the mod staff make its own determination

I assumed the answers to the questions you put forth here were common knowledge, considering they have all been at the center of political controversy and debate for many years now, some even for decades_

Click to expand...

i did notice in your post that you failed to answer those very legitimate questions. if the answers are common knowledge, then share what that knowledge happens to be

Anyone who participates in political debate should be well versed in both party positions of these major issues_

Click to expand...

everyone has to start somewhere, so begin by sharing what you know about the party positions on those identified issues

That's odd?! I completely understood every word Senator Jennifer Fielder was saying and consider her basis totally genuine_

Click to expand...

i understood her words. but not what she was attempting to convey. let's address the points she was listing:

"There is a distinct difference in the way federal agencies are managing the federal lands today," Sen. Fielder said. "They used to do a good job, but they are hamstrung now with conflicting policies, politicized science, and an extreme financial crisis at the national level. It makes it impossible for these federal agencies to manage the lands responsibly anymore."

Click to expand...

conflicting policies. what are the conflicting policies the agencies have established, and in what ways do said conflicting policies adversely impact the agency's efforts to manage the federal lands?
politicized science. what does sen fielder mean by such a statement? science should be able to stand alone, and remain independent of political views. what science does she find to be skewed by politics, in what manner, and how does such political imprint undermine the federal role in managing federal lands?
extreme financial crisis at the national level. first of all, what is found to be an extreme federal financial crisis, and second, how does the purported federal financial crisis cause the federal agencys' actions to be deficient relative to their administration of federal lands?

you insist this is well known information. i look forward to you sharing your knowledge of it with us

Senator Jennifer Fielder is female__Your reading skills coincide remarkably with your writing abilities!

Click to expand...

thank you

Summerwind said:

Men like that?????!!!!! I seriously doubt it. He'd be claiming they were encroaching on "his" land.

Click to expand...

Men like what????!!!!! :blink:

You appear to be demonizing a man you know little about beyond his defiance of Big Government_

Empirica said:

Men like what????!!!!! :blink:

You appear to be demonizing a man you know little about beyond his defiance of Big Government_

Click to expand...

Living as long as I have in Texas and Idaho, I can glean what men like him are all about, it's not hard to figure. He's a rich welfare queen living off the teat of the government.

Empirica said:

History is ripe with examples of long-time tolerances of injustice until one brave soul stands up and says enough!

When that one brave soul stands alone, tyranny prevails but when other brave souls join in, tyranny is defeated_

Click to expand...

The injustice of the existence of the United States? The injustice of being made to pay for public land you would rather mooch off? The tyranny of failure to subsidize your cattle business?

Empirica said:

Men like what????!!!!! :blink:

You appear to be demonizing a man you know little about beyond his defiance of Big Government_

Click to expand...

I know he refused to pay minor grazing fees for decades.
I know he asserted a right to mooch off public lands.
I know he doesn't recognize the existence of the federal government.
I know he engaged in an armed confrontation to prevent law enforcement officers from enforcing the law.
I know he ignored four court orders to cease his unauthorized grazing.
I know his militia posse planned to use women as human shields.
I know he "wonders" if black people were better off as slaves.

And I know if he and his posse had prevented law enforcement from enforcing the law while wearing turbans instead of cowboy hats, you'd be demanding an airstrike.

Deuce said:

I know he refused to pay minor grazing fees for decades.
I know he asserted a right to mooch off public lands.
I know he doesn't recognize the existence of the federal government.
I know he engaged in an armed confrontation to prevent law enforcement officers from enforcing the law.
I know he ignored four court orders to cease his unauthorized grazing.
I know his militia posse planned to use women as human shields.
I know he "wonders" if black people were better off as slaves.

Click to expand...

ie; all laws are just simply by decree of Government?!

Let's consider the lawless act of the late Miss Rosa Parks:

I know she asserted a right to sit in the front of the bus_
I know she didn't recognize the existence of Jim Crow Laws_
I know she engaged in civil disobedience to protest an unjust law_
I know she ignored the law when ordered to move to the back of the bus_
I know that black women and children marched in her support in the face of armed hostile law enforcement_
I know that you and the left-wing press injected "race" into an issue where it did not belong_

And I know if he and his posse had prevented law enforcement from enforcing the law while wearing turbans instead of cowboy hats, you'd be demanding an airstrike.

Click to expand...

And I know this assumption of yours is totally ridiculous considering that I base the need of an "airstrike" on national security rather than dress code_

Empirica said:

ie; all laws are just simply by decree of Government?!

Let's consider the lawless act of the late Miss Rosa Parks:

I know she asserted a right to sit in the front of the bus_
I know she didn't recognize the existence of Jim Crow Laws_
I know she engaged in civil disobedience to protest an unjust law_
I know she ignored the law when ordered to move to the back of the bus_
I know that black women and children marched in her support in the face of armed hostile law enforcement_
I know that you and the left-wing press injected "race" into an issue where it did not belong_
View attachment 67165503

And I know this assumption of yours is totally ridiculous considering that I base the need of an "airstrike" on national security rather than dress code_

Click to expand...

You whine about me being ridiculous and then compare Cliven Bundy to Rosa Parks. :lamo

And by the way, liberals didn't inject race into this. Bundy injected race into this. Absolutely no part of this story had anything to do with race until he decided to tell all of us "about the negro." Until the most famous welfare rancher in the country decided to whine about black people collecting welfare because he drove by their house one day and saw them sitting outside.

What Rosa Parks did was right. But are you really trying to compare civil liberties to a $1.70 per head grazing fee for land the man doesn't own? If Cliven Bundy had been grazing on another private individual's land illegally do you still think you'd support him? Additionally, when you have a sniper set up on an elevated position aiming his rifle at federal agents, it is no longer "civil" disobedience.

Is there any chance that I could go out west and homestead some property formally owned by the US Gov? I've had my eye on a 20,000 acre plot in the Devil's playground in eastern California for quite some time now. Yes, I know that water would have to be trucked in.

For a long time I couldn't figure out how to have an income high enough to pay for my trucked water and some other amenities. Then it hit me: Confidential body hiding. I could drop corpses 50 feet from the highway, throw some rocks on 'em, and they would be gone forever.

I'm already excited about my new mega-ranch. At least I won't have to mow it.

Deuce said:

You whine about me being ridiculous and then compare Cliven Bundy to Rosa Parks. :lamo

And by the way, liberals didn't inject race into this. Bundy injected race into this. Absolutely no part of this story had anything to do with race until he decided to tell all of us "about the negro." Until the most famous welfare rancher in the country decided to whine about black people collecting welfare because he drove by their house one day and saw them sitting outside.

What Rosa Parks did was right. But are you really trying to compare civil liberties to a $1.70 per head grazing fee for land the man doesn't own? If Cliven Bundy had been grazing on another private individual's land illegally do you still think you'd support him? Additionally, when you have a sniper set up on an elevated position aiming his rifle at federal agents, it is no longer "civil" disobedience.

Click to expand...

All examples of intolerance to injustice and tyranny are comparable_

And concerning exactly who injected race into this:

It might be interesting to see the entire interview to find out if maybe Bundy was led into making his racial opinions known in response to a leading question from a journalist?!

Considering of course it is the normal procedure for left-wing journalists interviewing political adversaries_

Deuce said:

The injustice of the existence of the United States? The injustice of being made to pay for public land you would rather mooch off? The tyranny of failure to subsidize your cattle business?

Click to expand...

Nope; the "injustice" of unwarranted regulation and taxation and the "tyranny" of deadly force to ensure compliance_

Deuce said:

Grazing fees of, what was it, like a dollar an acre?

Click to expand...

Grazing fees are not assessed based on acreage. It is $1.35 per AUM or $1.35 per cow per month. I read somewhere that ranchers average 1,000 cows in the Great Plains states so for them it would come out to about $1,350 per month in grazing fees. Grazing season lasts about 7 months so they're paying $9,450 per year in grazing fees.