BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

Oh no's :shock: .....say it isn't so. Looks like we Gotcha Lois, Lyin and Profilin. Any reason for you to be quite anymore? No wonder she didn't want to answer. Do you think this hurts Obama, now?



.....About Prosecuting Tax Exempts Groups.




According to new IRS emails obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request from Judicial Watch, former head of tax exempt groups at the IRS Lois Lerner was in contact with the Department of Justice in May 2013 about whether tax exempt groups could be criminally prosecuted for "lying" about political activity.

"I think we should do it – also need to include CI [Criminal Investigation Division], which we can help coordinate. Also, we need to reach out to FEC. Does it make sense to consider including them in this or keep it separate?" Flax responded on May 9, 2013.

After this email exchange, Lerner handed things off to Senior Technical Adviser and Attorney Nancy Marks, who was in charge of setting up a meeting with DOJ.

Last week news broke that Democratic Rep. Elijah Cummings' staff was in contact with Lerner about the conservative group True the Vote, despite denying any contact occurred. In this specific instance of Lerner discussing possible criminal prosecution of tax-exempt groups through DOJ, Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse seems to have been the person to get the ball rolling.

“These new emails show that the day before she broke the news of the IRS scandal, Lois Lerner was talking to a top Obama Justice Department official about whether the DOJ could prosecute the very same organizations that the IRS had already improperly targeted,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement. “The IRS emails show Eric Holder’s Department of Justice is now implicated and conflicted in the IRS scandal. No wonder we had to sue in federal court to get these documents.” .....snip~

BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ About Prosecuting Tax Exempt Groups - Katie Pavlich

Wait, she asks DOJ if they should prosecute groups for lying to get tax exempt status, and that is the smoking gun? I must be missing something.

It sounds very much like the IRS was investigating whether tax exempt groups were cheating the system in order to take advantage of CU and the superpac loopholes, found out they were correct, and asked if they should prosecute for fraud.

That the culprits were mostly Tea Party does not fall on the IRS.

mak2 said:

Wait, she asks DOJ if they should prosecute groups for lying to get tax exempt status, and that is the smoking gun? I must be missing something.

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The fact that there were triple the number of groups filing for exempt status put the red flag up in the first place.

How is the DOJ being implicated here? All they were doing was determining if they could prosecute groups who were lying on their application. Seems like the DOJ was doing what it is supposed to do.

tecoyah said:

It sounds very much like the IRS was investigating whether tax exempt groups were cheating the system in order to take advantage of CU and the superpac loopholes, found out they were correct, and asked if they should prosecute for fraud.

That the culprits were mostly Tea Party does not fall on the IRS.

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The fact is they were improperly targetted to begin with.
actually if the information above is correct yes indeed it falls on the IRS and the DOJ.

this administration is one of the most corrupt i have seen in a long long time.

mak2 said:

Wait, she asks DOJ if they should prosecute groups for lying to get tax exempt status, and that is the smoking gun? I must be missing something.

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Heya Mak :2wave: .....here lets help you with that and remind those whom she told what. What did you think Judicial Watch just made it up?

Just a few short days later on May 10, 2013, Lerner admitted and apologized for the inappropriate targeting of conservative tea party groups during an American Bar Association Conference after answering a planted question. Further according to Judicial Watch, "In an email to an aide responding to a request for information from a Washington Post reporter, Lerner admits that she “can’t confirm that there was anyone on the other side of the political spectrum” who had been targeted by the IRS. She then adds that “The one with the names used were only know [sic] because they have been very loud in the press.”

In other words, only conservative groups were being looked at for criminal prosecution.....snip~

ludin said:

The fact is they were improperly targetted to begin with.
actually if the information above is correct yes indeed it falls on the IRS and the DOJ.

this administration is one of the most corrupt i have seen in a long long time.

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Heya Ludin, yep it does.


On March 27, 2013, just days before the hearing took place, Lerner described the purpose for the hearing to IRS staff in an email.

"As I mentioned yesterday -- there are several groups of folks from the FEC world that are pushing tax fraud prosecution for c4s who report they are not conducting political activity when they are (or these folks think they are). One is my ex-boss Larry Noble (former General Counsel at the FEC), who is now president of Americans for Campaign Reform. This is their latest push to shut these down. One IRS prosecution would make an impact and they wouldn't feel so comfortable doing the stuff," she wrote. "So, don't be fooled about how this is being articulated – it is ALL about 501(c)(4) orgs and political activity." .....snip~

MMC said:

Oh no's :shock: .....say it isn't so. Looks like we Gotcha Lois, Lyin and Profilin. Any reason for you to be quite anymore? No wonder she didn't want to answer. Do you think this hurts Obama, now?



.....About Prosecuting Tax Exempts Groups.

According to new IRS emails obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request from Judicial Watch, former head of tax exempt groups at the IRS Lois Lerner was in contact with the Department of Justice in May 2013 about whether tax exempt groups could be criminally prosecuted for "lying" about political activity.

"I think we should do it – also need to include CI [Criminal Investigation Division], which we can help coordinate. Also, we need to reach out to FEC. Does it make sense to consider including them in this or keep it separate?" Flax responded on May 9, 2013.

After this email exchange, Lerner handed things off to Senior Technical Adviser and Attorney Nancy Marks, who was in charge of setting up a meeting with DOJ.

Last week news broke that Democratic Rep. Elijah Cummings' staff was in contact with Lerner about the conservative group True the Vote, despite denying any contact occurred. In this specific instance of Lerner discussing possible criminal prosecution of tax-exempt groups through DOJ, Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse seems to have been the person to get the ball rolling.

“These new emails show that the day before she broke the news of the IRS scandal, Lois Lerner was talking to a top Obama Justice Department official about whether the DOJ could prosecute the very same organizations that the IRS had already improperly targeted,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement. “The IRS emails show Eric Holder’s Department of Justice is now implicated and conflicted in the IRS scandal. No wonder we had to sue in federal court to get these documents.” .....snip~

BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ About Prosecuting Tax Exempt Groups - Katie Pavlich

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Whoa mama.

ludin said:

The fact is they were improperly targetted to begin with.
actually if the information above is correct yes indeed it falls on the IRS and the DOJ.

this administration is one of the most corrupt i have seen in a long long time.

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Okay....wait a sec here.

If you wish to prevent Raccoons from getting in your garbage, do you watch all the dogs and cats on your block?

If you instead look for Raccoons at night are you "improperly" focusing on them?

ludin said:

this administration is one of the most corrupt i have seen in a long long time.

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Very simply, this is a reflection on you. In order to believe what you've typed one will have to assume you haven't been paying attention for the past 50 years or so. The only administration that hasn't been provably corrupt on some level is the Carter administration.

ludin said:

The fact is they were improperly targetted to begin with.
actually if the information above is correct yes indeed it falls on the IRS and the DOJ.

this administration is one of the most corrupt i have seen in a long long time.

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It does look like the targeting was improper...but that does NOT automatically mean that anyone above her was part of it, does it? Let's see first if anyone above her knew that there was any improper targeting first before we start accusing them.

And btw, if this administration is the most corrupt you've seen in a long, long time, you must not be more than five years old...because Dubya's administration was MUCH more corrupt than this. Or do you not remember how his administration directly pressured the states' attorneys general to begin and conduct voter fraud investigations and fired some of those attorneys general who refused to do so due to lack of evidence....

Glen Contrarian said:

It does look like the targeting was improper...but that does NOT automatically mean that anyone above her was part of it, does it? Let's see first if anyone above her knew that there was any improper targeting first before we start accusing them.

And btw, if this administration is the most corrupt you've seen in a long, long time, you must not be more than five years old...because Dubya's administration was MUCH more corrupt than this. Or do you not remember how his administration directly pressured the states' attorneys general to begin and conduct voter fraud investigations and fired some of those attorneys general who refused to do so due to lack of evidence....

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A little correction, the attorneys who were pushed to investigate voter fraud were federal attorneys, not state AGs. Some state AGs, all Republican of course, did investigate voter fraud but the ones fired were all federal employees

tecoyah said:

It sounds very much like the IRS was investigating whether tax exempt groups were cheating the system in order to take advantage of CU and the superpac loopholes, found out they were correct, and asked if they should prosecute for fraud.

That the culprits were mostly Tea Party does not fall on the IRS.

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Which groups have been prosecuted? What was the outcome? What was the basis for prosecution?

Generally speaking it's preferable to have evidence of illegal activity before prosecuting. Of course, lacking such evidence, I suppose one could just hold the suspect organization in eternal limbo.

Lutherf said:

Which groups have been prosecuted? What was the outcome? What was the basis for prosecution?

Generally speaking it's preferable to have evidence of illegal activity before prosecuting. Of course, lacking such evidence, I suppose one could just hold the suspect organization in eternal limbo.

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If by "Eternal Limbo" you mean "Gathering Evidence of Illegal Activity Before Prosecuting".....I suppose you have a point.

What ever happened to the Easter Egg hunt? that is what I want to know.

Somerville said:

A little correction, the attorneys who were pushed to investigate voter fraud were federal attorneys, not state AGs. Some state AGs, all Republican of course, did investigate voter fraud but the ones fired were all federal employees

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Thanks for the correction - I appreciate that.

ludin said:

The fact is they were improperly targetted to begin with.
actually if the information above is correct yes indeed it falls on the IRS and the DOJ.

this administration is one of the most corrupt i have seen in a long long time.

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That is a determination that has not yet been proven. It is believed to have happened, It may have happened, but it has yet to be proven to have happened.

I like to have a court ruling before I claim what is fact.

Glen Contrarian said:

It does look like the targeting was improper...but that does NOT automatically mean that anyone above her was part of it, does it? Let's see first if anyone above her knew that there was any improper targeting first before we start accusing them.

And btw, if this administration is the most corrupt you've seen in a long, long time, you must not be more than five years old...because Dubya's administration was MUCH more corrupt than this. Or do you not remember how his administration directly pressured the states' attorneys general to begin and conduct voter fraud investigations and fired some of those attorneys general who refused to do so due to lack of evidence....

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I didn't say anyone above her did know but it means we need an inquiry as to how high this went and who knew what and who was involved.
Holder by all accounts should be dismissed and not just over this but a whole list of other things.

when you boss asks you to do something you do it if you don't then you can be fired. So they made a choice and lost their job for it.

ludin said:

I didn't say anyone above her did know but it means we need an inquiry as to how high this went and who knew what and who was involved.
Holder by all accounts should be dismissed and not just over this but a whole list of other things.

when you boss asks you to do something you do it if you don't then you can be fired. So they made a choice and lost their job for it.

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I agree we need to see how high it went...but Holder's a whole different issue - I see no reason why he should be dismissed...especially given what his predecessors in the Bush administration got away with.

And the whole conspiracy theory about Lois Lerner asking her boss...if you'll look again, she asked if she could prosecute those who broke the law, and NOT whether she could target one side more than the other. The issue isn't whether one side or the other broke the law - the issues on how much one side was targeted more than the other.

Glen Contrarian said:

It does look like the targeting was improper...but that does NOT automatically mean that anyone above her was part of it, does it? Let's see first if anyone above her knew that there was any improper targeting first before we start accusing them.

And btw, if this administration is the most corrupt you've seen in a long, long time, you must not be more than five years old...because Dubya's administration was MUCH more corrupt than this. Or do you not remember how his administration directly pressured the states' attorneys general to begin and conduct voter fraud investigations and fired some of those attorneys general who refused to do so due to lack of evidence....

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We have to be careful with the language. One of the criteria used to determine if a group was in violation of 501c status was deemed to be improper. But that is different than saying that groups were improperly targeted.

Mithros said:

We have to be careful with the language. One of the criteria used to determine if a group was in violation of 501c status was deemed to be improper. But that is different than saying that groups were improperly targeted.

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Thanks - got to be more careful.

tecoyah said:

If by "Eternal Limbo" you mean "Gathering Evidence of Illegal Activity Before Prosecuting".....I suppose you have a point.

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No. I mean "having found no evidence we're just going to **** with them".

I'm not seeing the smoking gun.

Paperview said:

I'm not seeing the smoking gun.

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Between the collusion with the DoJ and Cummings, it's fairly damning. Not a slam dunk yet, but it's on the way there.