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CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

Why?



When did I ever assume an enemy is innocent? I was talking about the common law doctrine as adopted by the founders that everyone is innocent unless and until proven guilty by a proper court of law. What did you not understand about that?

1) its germain to the conversation to know how you define torture.

2) the topic is about torturing terrorists.
 
1) its germain to the conversation to know how you define torture.

2) the topic is about torturing terrorists.

The topic is torturing suspected terrorists.
 
Everyone is innocent until prove guilty.

And even before that, an "enemy" (whoever that may be) has to first be charged with committing a crime. Furthermore, the designation of who is or isn't an "enemy" is nothing more than someone's opinion.
 
1) its germain to the conversation to know how you define torture.

Not really. But to placate you, to torture is to deliberately cause another person to suffer severely, either mentally,physically or both.

2) the topic is about torturing terrorists.

Already clarified.
 
I agree but that doesn't justify committing torture or any other human rights
atrocity. Torture ALWAYS involves committing an atrocity on an innocent person. Why? Because as an American, one espouses the common law ideology that a person is innocent unless and until proven guilty by a proper court. Those who don't agree with that basic American concept are not real Americans.

The concept of "Presumption of Innocence" is not even codified in the text of our Constitution.

The "innocent until proven guilty " concept comes from English Jurisprudence.

Its not even a " American concept " in the sense that we got it from English common law.

And Finally, your'e NOT innocent until proven guilty IF you did it. Your are guilty .

TRUE innocence until proven guilty means you couldn't be, at your arraignment, be held until your trial.
 
Not really. But to placate you, to torture is to deliberately cause another person to suffer severely, either mentally,physically or both.



Already clarified.

So, sleep deprivation isn't torture?
 
The topic is torturing suspected terrorists.

No, the topic is torturing known terrorists. All terrorists are guilty, otherwise they wouldnt be terrorists.
 
No, the topic is torturing known terrorists. All terrorists are guilty, otherwise they wouldnt be terrorists.

Many suspected terrorists held at Guantanamo have been released due to lack of evidence. There are even several who have been determined to not guilty who are still be held due to logistical issues.

How many Jews tortured and killed by the Nazis were actually attempting to sabotage the German government or harm others? How many of those tortured and murdered as terrorists by the dictatorships in Argentina, El Salvador, Russia, China, Egypt and Iraq were actually engaged in terrorism?

"When the United States sent Maher Arar to Syria, where he was tortured for months, the deportation order stated unequivocally that Mr. Arar, a Canadian software engineer, was a member of Al Qaeda. But a few days earlier, Canadian investigators had told the F.B.I. that they had not been able to link him to the terrorist group.

That is one of the disclosures in the 1,200-page report released last week after a two-year Canadian investigation of Mr. Arar’s case found him to be innocent of any terrorist ties. The report urges the Canadian government to formally protest the American treatment of Mr. Arar, a recommendation Canadian officials are considering.

Mr. Arar, 37, who now lives in British Columbia, has a lawsuit against United States officials and agencies that is on appeal, and he has demanded an explanation for his treatment from the Bush administration.

A close reading of the Arar Commission report offers a rare window on American actions in the case, describing seemingly flimsy evidence behind the American decision in 2002 to send Mr. Arar to a country notorious for torture; a deliberate attempt by American officials to deceive Canada about where Mr. Arar was; and lingering confusion among top American officials about the two countries’ roles in the case......"
By SCOTT SHANE
Published: September 25, 2006

"Tortured Man Gets Apology From Canada
By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, January 27, 2007

MONTREAL, Jan. 26 -- The prime minister of Canada apologized Friday to Maher Arar and agreed to give $9 million in compensation to the Canadian Arab, who was spirited by U.S. agents to Syria and tortured there after being falsely named as a terrorism suspect.

Arar, 36, a former computer engineer who was detained while changing planes at a New York airport in 2002 and imprisoned in a Syrian dungeon for 10 months, said after the announcement that he "feels proud as a Canadian."

"We cannot go back and fix the injustice that occurred to Mr. Arar," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in issuing the formal apology in Ottawa. "However, we can make changes to lessen the likelihood that something like this will ever happen again." The head of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police resigned over the affair, and the government has pledged to increase oversight of its intelligence agencies...."
 
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All of that is referring to different circumstances. I'll repeat for those who missed it:

For verifiable information.

And, please, spare us the Mother Jones articles.

Quoting a senate report isnt good enough for you?
 
Read more @: [/FONT][/COLOR]CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

Criminals. Thats what they are, plain and simple. The CIA is filled of many criminals. War criminals. Torture. Lying to the American public, hell even to themselves.

I suggest you should wait until all the evidence comes out. You may be surprised and you'll run less risk of having to eat your words. A government at war fails in its duty if it does not do everything possible to prevail.:peace
 
Many suspected terrorists held at Guantanamo have been released due to lack of evidence. There are even several who have been determined to not guilty who are still be held due to logistical issues.

How many Jews tortured and killed by the Nazis were actually attempting to sabotage the German government or harm others? How many of those tortured and murdered as terrorists by the dictatorships in Argentina, El Salvador, Russia, China, Egypt and Iraq were actually engaged in terrorism?

"When the United States sent Maher Arar to Syria, where he was tortured for months, the deportation order stated unequivocally that Mr. Arar, a Canadian software engineer, was a member of Al Qaeda. But a few days earlier, Canadian investigators had told the F.B.I. that they had not been able to link him to the terrorist group.

That is one of the disclosures in the 1,200-page report released last week after a two-year Canadian investigation of Mr. Arar’s case found him to be innocent of any terrorist ties. The report urges the Canadian government to formally protest the American treatment of Mr. Arar, a recommendation Canadian officials are considering.

Mr. Arar, 37, who now lives in British Columbia, has a lawsuit against United States officials and agencies that is on appeal, and he has demanded an explanation for his treatment from the Bush administration.

A close reading of the Arar Commission report offers a rare window on American actions in the case, describing seemingly flimsy evidence behind the American decision in 2002 to send Mr. Arar to a country notorious for torture; a deliberate attempt by American officials to deceive Canada about where Mr. Arar was; and lingering confusion among top American officials about the two countries’ roles in the case......"
By SCOTT SHANE
Published: September 25, 2006

"Tortured Man Gets Apology From Canada
By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, January 27, 2007

MONTREAL, Jan. 26 -- The prime minister of Canada apologized Friday to Maher Arar and agreed to give $9 million in compensation to the Canadian Arab, who was spirited by U.S. agents to Syria and tortured there after being falsely named as a terrorism suspect.

Arar, 36, a former computer engineer who was detained while changing planes at a New York airport in 2002 and imprisoned in a Syrian dungeon for 10 months, said after the announcement that he "feels proud as a Canadian."

"We cannot go back and fix the injustice that occurred to Mr. Arar," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in issuing the formal apology in Ottawa. "However, we can make changes to lessen the likelihood that something like this will ever happen again." The head of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police resigned over the affair, and the government has pledged to increase oversight of its intelligence agencies...."

Most of them have re-joined the ranks of the terrorists, too.
 
I suggest you should wait until all the evidence comes out. You may be surprised and you'll run less risk of having to eat your words. A government at war fails in its duty if it does not do everything possible to prevail.:peace

A government that isn't based on humane principals or doesn't adhere to them consistently isn't worth defending.
 
A government that isn't based on humane principals or doesn't adhere to them consistently isn't worth defending.

Rubbish. Imagine the surrender ceremony during which the losing signatory consoles his countrymen by assuring them that their government adhered to its principles (note spelling). Rubbish.:peace
 
I suggest you should wait until all the evidence comes out. You may be surprised and you'll run less risk of having to eat your words. A government at war fails in its duty if it does not do everything possible to prevail.:peace

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. We tortured, broke our own law, broke our own rules, and broke international law. Seems pretty clear.
 
Seems pretty cut and dry to me. We tortured, broke our own law, broke our own rules, and broke international law. Seems pretty clear.

Many black men were lynched in the old South on the basis of "pretty clear" evidence.:peace
 
Many black men were lynched in the old South on the basis of "pretty clear" evidence.:peace

Senate Report=Very Few Anti-Lynching Laws in the 18th-20th century leading to lynching. Wow.. :doh
 
Rubbish. Imagine the surrender ceremony during which the losing signatory consoles his countrymen by assuring them that their government adhered to its principles (note spelling). Rubbish.:peace

If my nation went to war and acted like Nazis or Stalinists I would not defend that country and would not want to stay to 'enjoy' its victory.
 
If our nation went to war and acted like Nazis or Stalinists I would not defend that country and would not want to stay to 'enjoy' its victory.

There is no value in war beyond victory. Your departure would likely make the US a better place. And no one has acted like Nazis or Stalinists.:peace
 
There is no value in war beyond victory. Your departure would likely make the US a better place. And no one has acted like Nazis or Stalinists.:peace

Nazis and Stalinists acted like Nazis and Stalinists. I am not claiming that the USA has acted badly at that scale or level........yet.
 
Your moral approval has exactly zero value.:peace

We all come here to be entertained by other poster's opinions, so our values and opinions must have some value.
 
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