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CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

Plus the Geneva Convention was set up for a reason you know.

Yes, the Geneva Convention should be followed, but if deviations are required for national security, then it'd be foolhardy not to deviate on occasion. Soldiers have to live in the world as it is not as it should be or as desired by non-combatants.
 
Again you assume that the suspect knows where the bomb is. If they do not and would speak of a place just to stop torture you could verify it and come back to some more torture for no good reason.

It's only acceptable if we know, for a fact, they have verifiable information.
 
This validates what many of us knew years ago. Many have written about it and Kiriakou has gone to prison for telling the public about it.

This government is totally out of control.
 
Again you assume that the suspect knows where the bomb is. If they do not and would speak of a place just to stop torture you could verify it and come back to some more torture for no good reason.

We won't know what he knows, until we smack him around a little.
 
Sorry not going to get me outraged about bringing it to the enemy anyway possible. If I were in charge we'd actually still call it torture and I would sleep just fine at night.

Tim-


The enemy?

By what court have they been deemed an "enemy?" The say so of a resentful goat herder?

Oh yeah, keep that country safe with secret torturing and lies...condone it until they come for you.


Remind me again how "hope and change" has created the most open and accountable administration in history.
 
Who cares? It could work, and I'm pretty sure I could get information from just about anyone, but in the event it doesn't, so what? One less bad guy to worry about.


Tim-



Yeah, after a few hours of waterboarding I'd be happy to give you up.


So long as you get information, that's good enough, accuracy doesn't matter, the facts and the studies from as far back as Nazi Germany showing torture produces more fabricated intel than not, you're good to go, to keep those terrorists away.

After 13 years of continuous warfare you'd think that the might of the greatest war machine in the history of the world would have managed to kill them off by now.....but there's that accuracy thing again.....
 
Plenty of idiots here like to lable all republicans with a broad brush so its only fair the DNC take the blame; its leaders failed those in Benghazi, got them killed, then lied about it to cover themselves for the pending election, and I could say that in one line where as the same democraps spent $44,000,000 to write a report b & m about harsh interrogation tactics. The hypocrisy of the DNC and anyone that defends them in this is pathetic.


The Democratic Party "got an ambassador killed"? That's an interesting spin on Benghazi.
 
Plenty of idiots here like to lable all republicans with a broad brush so its only fair the DNC take the blame; its leaders failed those in Benghazi, got them killed, then lied about it to cover themselves for the pending election, and I could say that in one line where as the same democraps spent $44,000,000 to write a report b & m about harsh interrogation tactics. The hypocrisy of the DNC and anyone that defends them in this is pathetic.

What.
 
Sorry not going to get me outraged about bringing it to the enemy anyway possible. If I were in charge we'd actually still call it torture and I would sleep just fine at night.

Tim-
Well good sir. That is because you are a piece of ****. *tips hat*
 
I don't get why people continually dog the C.I.A. and U.S. for having previously used torture when there are plenty of other offenders that seemingly skate by without a single condemnation.

Russia, Libya, Syria, China (who also has slaves), Brazil, India (who also has slaves), Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Iraq, Lebanon, Ethiopia, Mexico, Philippines…

They *all* torture, and there are *more* that can be listed. Where's the outrage?
 
We won't know what he knows, until we smack him around a little.

That is the point.

Since you do not know whether he knows or not you are risking persecution by the Geneva convention all the while the person may tell you whatever you want to hear just to stop you from smacking him. It is risking persecution on a wild guess.
 
I personally find it nauseating that anyone who claims to be an American justifies torture and other human rights atrocities. That's the mentality of mentally deranged neanderthals. And unfortunately, it's also the mentality of many in our hijacked government, all 3 branches.
 
That is the point.

Since you do not know whether he knows or not you are risking persecution by the Geneva convention all the while the person may tell you whatever you want to hear just to stop you from smacking him. It is risking persecution on a wild guess.

You exhibit your lack of knowledge of both the GC and interrogation techniques.

The GC prohibits ANY coersion. Literally anything more than asking questions is illegal according to the GC.

Second, physical violence is always the last resort. There are other approaches that you want to attempt first.

And sure, the prisoner can lie, which is why you verify the information he gives you and if he is lying, you punish him for it.

"Torture", is thousands of years old. Its been perfected. If it was really as ineffective as some folks like to claim, it would have stopped being used centuries ago.
 
I personally find it nauseating that anyone who claims to be an American justifies torture and other human rights atrocities. That's the mentality of mentally deranged neanderthals. And unfortunately, it's also the mentality of many in our hijacked government, all 3 branches.

I find it nauseating that someone would put the welfare of a terrorist ahead of the lives of his countrymen.
 
I find it nauseating that someone would put the welfare of a terrorist ahead of the lives of his countrymen.

I agree but that doesn't justify committing torture or any other human rights atrocity. Torture ALWAYS involves committing an atrocity on an innocent person. Why? Because as an American, one espouses the common law ideology that a person is innocent unless and until proven guilty by a proper court. Those who don't agree with that basic American concept are not real Americans.
 
Nothing is 100%

Yet our constitution is based on the notion of innocent until proven guilty. Torture assumes guilty until proven innocent (if extremely lucky) or dead.
 
I don't get why people continually dog the C.I.A. and U.S. for having previously used torture when there are plenty of other offenders that seemingly skate by without a single condemnation.

Russia, Libya, Syria, China (who also has slaves), Brazil, India (who also has slaves), Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Iraq, Lebanon, Ethiopia, Mexico, Philippines…

They *all* torture, and there are *more* that can be listed. Where's the outrage?

I have been a member of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the ACLU for decades because I and the other members of those groups do not tolerate torture and we are willing to put money and effort behind our principals.
 
Here's the outrage and a chance to do something:
"Our strength lies in collective action. With over 3 million Amnesty members and supporters, we help individuals around the world whose human rights are being violated.

Here are 10 ways you can make a difference:

1.Take action right now! With so many issues happening all around the world, sign a petition on one of the many human rights issues facing our communities around the world.

2.Attend an event. Events are a great way to get to educate yourself and others about human rights and meet other like minded people in your community who want to take action together.

3.Become a member. We are a movement of people. Each time a new person joins, Amnesty’s light shines brighter on the injustices occurring at different places around the world. Join today.

4.Donate. Your gift helps keep our movement free from corporate influence and independent from government agendas. Donate now!

5.Volunteer. Our network of volunteers have the chance to try almost anything—from phone banking, writing letters and organizing a group to responding to a crisis, leading a lobby effort or carrying out our campaigns—we invite you to explore the diverse volunteer opportunities available to you around the country.

6.Join a Group. Together, the members of our groups take action, reach out to new communities and educate the public about how they can make human rights a reality for all.

7.Follow a Campaign. Are you passionate about a certain issue? Join a network of activists around the country who are using campaigns to teach communities about torture, abolition of the death penalty, ending poverty and more.

8.Shop for a Cause. At our online store you can shop t-shirts and a variety of gifts with a purpose.

9.Write for Rights. Join over 17,000 people in one of the largest events on behalf of political prisoners, human rights defenders and others whose rights are being violated by their governments or corporations.

10.Partner with us. Through collaborations, partnerships and collective action, we can improve the state of human rights here and abroad. If you represent a university, association or agency, explore the ways you can support Amnesty International."
Get Involved for Human Rights | Amnesty International USA

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Many more cases at http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now
 
.."Torture", is thousands of years old. Its been perfected. If it was really as ineffective as some folks like to claim, it would have stopped being used centuries ago.

1. Many experienced professionals in the business of obtaining information from suspects etc. disagree with the claim that torture is effective.

2. Torture continues because people enjoy it, it creates the impression that something is being done, it is a way to express anger and hatred, and it is a form of terrorism against opponents.
 
I don't get why people continually dog the C.I.A. and U.S. for having previously used torture when there are plenty of other offenders that seemingly skate by without a single condemnation.

Russia, Libya, Syria, China (who also has slaves), Brazil, India (who also has slaves), Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Iraq, Lebanon, Ethiopia, Mexico, Philippines…

They *all* torture, and there are *more* that can be listed. Where's the outrage?

Your point is valid, but the outrage comes from the hypocrisy involved, at least as much as against the crimes themselves. The US lectures the rest of the world about human rights violations, imposes sanctions and otherwise pounds its chest, when the reality is that the US had the best organized torture system that the world has ever seen. Subjects being flown here and there in Gulfstreams is pretty damn sophisticated IMO. Broad daylight captures on the streets of Italy is pretty bold, eh?
 
1. Many experienced professionals in the business of obtaining information from suspects etc. disagree with the claim that torture is effective.

2. Torture continues because people enjoy it, it creates the impression that something is being done, it is a way to express anger and hatred, and it is a form of terrorism against opponents.

No, not "many".
 
Yet our constitution is based on the notion of innocent until proven guilty. Torture assumes guilty until proven innocent (if extremely lucky) or dead.

The enemy isn't innocent until proven guilty.
 
I agree but that doesn't justify committing torture or any other human rights atrocity. Torture ALWAYS involves committing an atrocity on an innocent person. Why? Because as an American, one espouses the common law ideology that a person is innocent unless and until proven guilty by a proper court. Those who don't agree with that basic American concept are not real Americans.

1) give us some examples of torture.

2) what causes your aitomatic assumption that an enemy is innocent?
 
1) give us some examples of torture.

Why?

2) what causes your aitomatic assumption that an enemy is innocent?

When did I ever assume an enemy is innocent? I was talking about the common law doctrine as adopted by the founders that everyone is innocent unless and until proven guilty by a proper court of law. What did you not understand about that?
 
The enemy isn't innocent until proven guilty.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Your claim is used to justify mass murder, torture and exploitation of innocents along with the guilty and is the cause of the largest atrocities in history. Civilizations with systems of justice were created to counter those tendencies.
 
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