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Graphic Images Justify Border Patrol's Use of Deadly Force Against Rock Attacks

The idea of shooting people suspected of crimes, claimed or real is masterstroke of genius.

In a nation reeling in economic morass for six years, with massive deficits and a crushing debt burden, the efficiency of this absolute cunning.

More countries should do it, Canada too. We can simply kill the drug mules and arms dealers, illegals you allow to stay and who figure Canada has better free ****..as it is now we have to claim it was a moose

It's even more moronic than that...BP agents have been shooting at people on the otherside. Not even considered criminals. That is way this directive came down. Cross border shootings are happening all too often.

In one case a group on teens were shot at because one of them was suspected to have thrown a rock. One teen was killed, the agents could not even state which of the teens threw the rock.

A Mexican teenager killed when the U.S. Border Patrol opened fire on a group of rock throwers in Mexico last year was shot at least seven times from behind, an autopsy by Mexican authorities showed.

Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez, 16, was shot as agents fired into Nogales, Mexico, after responding to reports of drug trafficking on Oct 10.
Autopsy: US Border Patrol agents shot Mexican teen 7 times from behind - World News
Feb 2013

Oct 2012
Mexican Teen Shot, Killed By Border Patrol Agent

July 2011
Family Of Mexican Teen Fatally Shot By Border Patrol Set To File Lawsuit | News - Home


June 2010
Mexican teen shot to death by U.S. Border Patrol agent | Dallas Morning News
 
You can't hold our agents accountable for someone committing suicide!

We should outsource the border patrol. We've done it with everything else, so why not? Bring in the Mexican border patrol, then have them use the same tactics that they use on their own southern border. That should slow down illegal immigration a bit.
 
I don't know about the border but in Afghanistan the ROE in its simplest form was the ability to defend yourself against lethal force or the imminent threat of lethal force. So it would seem to me that rather than debating whether or not someone who throws a rock could be met with deadly force it should be simply stated that you can defend yourself against lethal force and you should having the training and situation awareness to determine if someone throwing rocks counts as deadly force or not. Of course given the situation there may be other ways to act that will still allow you control of the situation without responding with deadly force, withdrawing or relocating are sometimes options as well.

Some may criticize my post as "being weak" or "siding with criminals" but that's not the case at all, its just that I know that giving folks too broad of a window such as saying "all rock throwers are to be considered to be attempting a deadly attack" can lead to outcomes very detrimental to the wider mission. In this specific case it appears the response of deadly force was appropriate.

Also Brietbart is a terrible source and this article is horribly written, anyone taking it as wholly truthful and not intentionally deceptive should be embarrassed
 
It's even more moronic than that...BP agents have been shooting at people on the otherside. Not even considered criminals. That is way this directive came down. Cross border shootings are happening all too often.

In one case a group on teens were shot at because one of them was suspected to have thrown a rock. One teen was killed, the agents could not even state which of the teens threw the rock.


Autopsy: US Border Patrol agents shot Mexican teen 7 times from behind - World News
Feb 2013

Oct 2012
Mexican Teen Shot, Killed By Border Patrol Agent

July 2011
Family Of Mexican Teen Fatally Shot By Border Patrol Set To File Lawsuit | News - Home


June 2010
Mexican teen shot to death by U.S. Border Patrol agent | Dallas Morning News

I'm talking more about apprehending illegals that have already crossed the border and how BP agents being forced to retreat from rock throwers hampers them from doing their job. On the shooting people on the other side of the border issue though I will say this. Would you blame a cop in NYC for shooting someone throwing rocks at him as he walked his beat? Same thing really, if these BP agents can't patrol the border without coming under attack and can't defend themselves when they do they may as well stay home.
 
I'm talking more about apprehending illegals that have already crossed the border and how BP agents being forced to retreat from rock throwers hampers them from doing their job. On the shooting people on the other side of the border issue though I will say this. Would you blame a cop in NYC for shooting someone throwing rocks at him as he walked his beat? Same thing really, if these BP agents can't patrol the border without coming under attack and can't defend themselves when they do they may as well stay home.

WASHINGTON — Following a series of disputed shootings, the U.S. Border Patrol issued a new lethal force directive Friday which prohibit agents from shooting at moving vehicles and at rock-throwing assailants except in instances when the threat could be deadly.

The announcement comes after a highly critical review of dozens of shooting incidents during a two-year period in which some agents allegedly stepped in front of vehicles to justify firing their weapons and also fired on rock throwers across the border into Mexico.

Border Patrol issues lethal force directive after shootings

The directive is because of the actions of some BP agents has become a problem. The directive is not a stand down order, it is an order for agents not put themselves in positions where leathal force is used. The directive does not say that leathal force is not to be used in the performance of the job, just not to used unjudiciously.
 
That is not the case.

A person on the other side of the border is not the concern of a BP agent. The job of a BP agent is to aprehend and return persons who unlawfully enter the US. BP agents job is not to 'stop' illegal border crossing.

You are quite wrong.

While the Border Patrol has changed dramatically since its inception in 1924, its primary mission remains unchanged: to detect and prevent the illegal entry of aliens into the United States.

U.S. Customs and Border Patrol ~ Border Patrol Overview

And in case you want to quibble on the definition of "prevent"...

: to stop (something) from happening or existing

: to make (someone or something) not do something : to stop (someone or something) from doing something

Merriam-Webster ~ Prevent

It absolutely IS the job of our border patrol to STOP illegal border crossings. If it takes a bullet to get the job done and get those leeches and law breakers to stop illegally coming into the US then I am all for it.
 
Border Patrol issues lethal force directive after shootings

The directive is because of the actions of some BP agents has become a problem. The directive is not a stand down order, it is an order for agents not put themselves in positions where leathal force is used. The directive does not say that leathal force is not to be used in the performance of the job, just not to used unjudiciously.

If you avoid people throwing rocks at you it makes it difficult to arrest them don't you think?
 
You are quite wrong.



U.S. Customs and Border Patrol ~ Border Patrol Overview

And in case you want to quibble on the definition of "prevent"...



Merriam-Webster ~ Prevent

It absolutely IS the job of our border patrol to STOP illegal border crossings. If it takes a bullet to get the job done and get those leeches and law breakers to stop illegally coming into the US then I am all for it.

You went to the dictionary for your mission statement of the US Border Patrol? Did the dictionary also describe BP regulations and directives?
 
The idea of shooting people suspected of crimes, claimed or real is masterstroke of genius.

In a nation reeling in economic morass for six years, with massive deficits and a crushing debt burden, the efficiency of this absolute cunning.

More countries should do it, Canada too. We can simply kill the drug mules and arms dealers, illegals you allow to stay and who figure Canada has better free ****..as it is now we have to claim it was a moose

Get you a couple dozen decent sized rocks and go to almost any police station in the U.S. and start throwing rocks at the police officers there and see what happens to you. I promise you they will not duck and hide until you get through pelting them with rocks.
 
refer to post #32

Irrelevent to the primary goal of the Border Patrol. You stated that the Border Patrol was supposed to apprehend and send back illegal aliens. Not to stop them. I showed that you were wrong. I showed that their primary goal is indeed to stop them.
 
You went to the dictionary for your mission statement of the US Border Patrol? Did the dictionary also describe BP regulations and directives?

You seem to be completely ignoring the first link. Why? The second link, from the dictionary, was to prevent you from quibbleing over stupid semantics. Which it apparently did because now you're trying to spin and side track. As I stated in my previous post. You stated that the Border Patrol was supposed to apprehend and send back illegal aliens. Not to stop them. I showed that you were wrong. Not only by giving you the definition of "prevent" but also by giving you a link directly to a government website and quote from that website that states the primary goal of the Border Patrol.
 
Irrelevent to the primary goal of the Border Patrol. You stated that the Border Patrol was supposed to apprehend and send back illegal aliens. Not to stop them. I showed that you were wrong. I showed that their primary goal is indeed to stop them.

Border protection is not the same as stoping unlawful entry. Of course border guards at a international border checkpoint checks to see that only authorized persons enter.

But agents in the field are not there to stop crossers...not on a 2000 mile long border. That is impossible. Their main function is to apprehend and turn back...NOT to stop.

The agents that were injured and that shot back across the border were not at a checkpoint...they were in the field.
 
Border protection is not the same as stoping unlawful entry. Of course border guards at a international border checkpoint checks to see that only authorized persons enter.

But agents in the field are not there to stop crossers...not on a 2000 mile long border. That is impossible. Their main function is to apprehend and turn back...NOT to stop.

The agents that were injured and that shot back across the border were not at a checkpoint...they were in the field.

Apprehension is just one aspect of stopping them. We're not barbarians. But if the need requires it then other aspects may be used. Either way they are stopped. You seem to think that the ONLY valid way of stopping them is apprehension. Its not. Border Patrol folks do have a right to defend themselves with deadly force just like any other American.
 
Border protection is not the same as stoping unlawful entry. Of course border guards at a international border checkpoint checks to see that only authorized persons enter.

But agents in the field are not there to stop crossers...not on a 2000 mile long border. That is impossible. Their main function is to apprehend and turn back...NOT to stop.

The agents that were injured and that shot back across the border were not at a checkpoint...they were in the field.

Where do you get this stuff? Obama made it clear that southern texas is getting his "enforcement" done right now, letting everyone know that california and AZ are wide open. Hope and change.
 
CBP should shoot back with rubber bullets.
 
Apprehension is just one aspect of stopping them. We're not barbarians. But if the need requires it then other aspects may be used. Either way they are stopped. You seem to think that the ONLY valid way of stopping them is apprehension. Its not. Border Patrol folks do have a right to defend themselves with deadly force just like any other American.

I never said in any way, shape, or form that BP agents did not have the right to defend themselves. I've lost count on how many times Ive posted the directives from BP superiors. It seems you are going out of your way to say shootings are justified regardless of the situation.

It is not my belief...you yours that matters, it is the agency and its employees. Believe as you wish.
 
I never said in any way, shape, or form that BP agents did not have the right to defend themselves. I've lost count on how many times Ive posted the directives from BP superiors. It seems you are going out of your way to say shootings are justified regardless of the situation.

It is not my belief...you yours that matters, it is the agency and its employees. Believe as you wish.

You support the BP regulations correct? As such you support their rule to run and hide if rocks are thrown, what can be a deadly projectile, at BP agents. That is implying that BP Agents do not have the right to defend themselves with deadly force, particularly with your erroneous comment that BP agents out in the field are not allowed to stop illegal aliens. And for purposes of self defense national boundary lines are irrelevent.

And yes, it does matter what our beliefs are as it is up to us, the American people, to make sure that reasonable laws and regulations are put into effect. It is our DUTY to make sure of this. It is up to us to get bad laws and regulations removed when politicians implement them. It is up to us to get good ones implemented. The government, and all of its agencies are our servants. NOT our masters. WE regulate THEM. They do not regulate us unless we say that they can on any given situation. People need to start understanding this VERY SIMPLE concept instead of gleefully taking it up the wazoo without so much as KY jelly.
 
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