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Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

Ikari said:
Exactly. And they use the fact that some things need to be secret to justify making everything secret. And then when you want to control the system and exert control it's all "you can't because you don't know", but they are specifically trying to make it so no one can know.

It's not a blank check as some would try to use it as.
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Lots of people know. Millions with a security clearance. You can be one!
 
The NSA and the BATF should be disbanded. Their duties can be split up among the remaining spooks and lawmen. The NSA is nothing more than the US Government saying "hey, we made this secret group to keep watch over y'all. See, we did something.

Too bad that what they did was wrong.

Speaking of security clearances, I believe Ed Snowden had one. One that he was willing to throw away in order to do the right thing.
 
Yeah, I wonder why, among all those people, he was the only one? Maybe he was actually wrong. Maybe he didn't even take the time to figure out why it was done or what it's effects were. Maybe it's not as obviously illegal and wrong as all the pundits here (with their vast experience in national defense and intelligence) would have you believe.
 
Ikari said:
The point is he can't back up anything be is saying. So he's essentially using the "trust us, we know what we're doing, we're not doing anything bad, we're really protecting you" argument which is absolute crap. Without proof, you got nothing. Massive growth in government, large data mining and storage, massive spying against the People many times without warrant, and no data proving this had any effect. But I'm supposed to just take it because someone who's lunch depends on it says it's necessary.

To keep a free Republican requires an educated and informed People. There are just those amongst us looking to subvert that.
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I understand your point, I also believe that people should make educated decisions, you should have access to data that would support their decision in spying their own people, you should have a say whether to keep or remove the PATRIOT act, and all that. But technically he cannot share his data with you for it is his job as intelligence officer (claiming that he is, we do not know that neither) to share such information with the people. He could lose his job, put in jail for treason, corruption, etc.

There are ways to get to those. As the people you can demand such a thing from proper governmental channels. If all fails you can condition the future candidate to share the information in exchange for your vote.

But again, sharing sensitive information in public forums from official representatives is stupid to say the least. There are serious consequences to that. Look at what happened to Snowden?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Yeah, I wonder why, among all those people, he was the only one? Maybe he was actually wrong. Maybe he didn't even take the time to figure out why it was done or what it's effects were. Maybe it's not as obviously illegal and wrong as all the pundits here (with their vast experience in national defense and intelligence) would have you believe.
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What are the benefits of spying your own people then?

Theoretically speaking of course. I know you cannot share results or such.
 
Ikari said:
That's to problem with those peddling ignorance though. They aren't for freedom nor democracy. They are for their own rule and do not, cannot, substantiate their own claims. They have little understanding of evidence, of statistics, of proof. But will instead default to authority and ignorance when challenged. They are afraid, afraid of what would happen if we knew.
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Well, there are many who think Machiavelli's "The Prince" is comedy; however the rule of fostering fear, uncertainty and doubt to gain and hold tyrannical rule is law. The people who's careers, political futures and comfortable retirement need to believe and need you to believe a threat is imminent. In this case, the populace has never paused to consider the fact the whole "security" apparatus is designed by the same morons who let the terrorists into the country, ignored their obvious activities and blamed each other for their collective failures.

It is not the advice I would seek if it were a business problem; doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a form of insanity.
 
DDD said:
What are the benefits of spying your own people then?

Theoretically speaking of course. I know you cannot share results or such.
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Information collection, of course.
 
DDD said:
What are the benefits of spying your own people then?

Theoretically speaking of course. I know you cannot share results or such.
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Subjugation.
 
DDD said:
What are the benefits of spying your own people then?

Theoretically speaking of course. I know you cannot share results or such.
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Because there are very dangerous crazy people. Most terrorist plots and attempts are by Americans, not foreigners.
 
joko104 said:
Because there are very dangerous crazy people. Most terrorist plots and attempts are by Americans, not foreigners.
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Not good enough, as usual.
 
SMTA said:
Not good enough, as usual.
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Except it is to the people that matter. It's not really about finding American threats, though. It's about monitoring those that are in contact with threats overseas and using it to track them.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Except it is to the people that matter. It's not really about finding American threats, though. It's about monitoring those that are in contact with threats overseas and using it to track them.
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Crap. The people and their rights matter.

There is no excuse for circumventing American rights to privacy.

None.
 
SMTA said:
Crap. The people and their rights matter.

There is no excuse for circumventing American rights to privacy.

None.
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In your opinion, you mean. You realize there is no mention of the word privacy in the Bill of Rights or any subsequent amendment, right? Good.

Your opinion is just that: yours. Other people, some more knowledgeable, some more powerful, some both, disagree with your opinion. Sorry, that's the (obvious) fact.

What are you gonna do about it? I'd suspect nothing but post on DP about it.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
In your opinion, you mean. You realize there is no mention of the word privacy in the Bill of Rights or any subsequent amendment, right? Good.

Your opinion is just that: yours. Other people, some more knowledgeable, some more powerful, some both, disagree with your opinion. Sorry, that's the (obvious) fact.

What are you gonna do about it? I'd suspect nothing but post on DP about it.
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Edward Snowden did enough damage in exposing the truth about the pathetic government that we have.

That is a good start, and there will be more.

The arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude of the governmental fools always brings them down.

I will continue to applaud their efforts in forcing transparency.

You lose.
 
SMTA said:
Edward Snowden did enough damage in exposing the truth about the pathetic government that we have.

The arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude of the governmental fools always brings them down.

I will continue to applaud their efforts in forcing transparency.

You lose.
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lol wtf? is this serious?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Information collection, of course.
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Are not American people outright communicative? They tell you what they think right there and then. Why is spying your own necessary? Do not you trust your own countrymen?
 
joko104 said:
Because there are very dangerous crazy people. Most terrorist plots and attempts are by Americans, not foreigners.
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But most Americans are not terrorists? Why treat all with suspicion worthy of spying efforts (waste resources with that) when you could divert this effort in other places?
 
joko104 said:
I don't hate the NSA. Since 9/11 there has not been one foreign terror attack against the USA that has been successful. I count that as a job well done.

He needs to stop worrying about the ignorant mob who bitch about everything while doing nothing because bitching is lazy and easy to do.
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And there was no terrorist attack like 9/11 for 200 years before 9/11 also. Was that due to the NSA also?
 
DDD said:
Are not American people outright communicative? They tell you what they think right there and then. Why is spying your own necessary? Do not you trust your own countrymen?
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No.

But I'd actually spy, not do what the NSA is doing by just storing metadata and accessing it via FISA warrants.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Oh, I get their point. I'm just offering a logical rebuttal to it.
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I meant you're missing the point of the Bill of Rights. The word "privacy" doesn't have to be in the Bill to be protected by it.
 
MadLib said:
I meant you're missing the point of the Bill of Rights. The word "privacy" doesn't have to be in the Bill to be protected by it.
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What else is protected that isn't mentioned? A nice pair of suede boots? Free education? Lakefront property? What needs to be mentioned in it and what doesn't?

Anyway, it's beside the point: freedom of speech is in the Bill of Rights and it's protected, but we still don't assume that means literally any speech at any time. Why would something that isn't actually mentioned be given even more leeway? Regardless, the government storing metadata that Verizon already has but will eventually throwaway isn't some horrible Nazi-esque moment anyway.
 
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