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Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

OldWorldOrder said:
lol? What do you think you sound like?



Oh lots of stuff. People like me stopped the guy trying to blow up the van in Times Square, for example. Planned attacks on nuclear power plants. Hijackings. Do you think every attack against US interests is successful? You can't even fathom that there are many attacks thwarted for every one that isn't stopped? Really?



With overly complicated levels upon levels of oversight, the threat of federal prison, and hours upon hours of annual compliance training that I have to do instead of my job.



Yeah. See. Look up. It's right about your question asking if I can answer.



It's a good thing you're not a betting man, eh?



lol no. I don't care. You're not a decision or policy maker. Trust me, don't trust me...I don't care. Makes no difference to me aside from the humor factor.



GTFO? I don't need to. I'm not whining and asking for change. I'm a fan of the way it is. You're...not? I guess? Who cares? You're not important. So it'll just continue on, while you pout about it. Ooooh the Thai is only like 10 minutes away, I think!
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So...you have any evidence that any of that happened? Or are these just claims of a government employee trying to justify his job?

As I said, prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO.
 
Ikari said:
So...you have any evidence that any of that happened? Or are these just claims of a government employee trying to justify his job?

As I said, prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO.
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lol what? You don't think a guy tried to blow up a van in Times Square? Ooookay.

Thankfully, you don't matter. Cause...whew...we'd be in trouble.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
lol what? You don't think a guy tried to blow up a van in Times Square? Ooookay.

Thankfully, you don't matter. Cause...whew...we'd be in trouble.
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Do you have evidence of it? Some proof? Or am I only to accept your word that this happened. And that's what, 1? 1 case (if that, since you haven't actually demonstrated this) out of...what? How much information are you collecting, how much spying are you engaging in. And we got 1. I'm not sure that this is a good return on investment.

Prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO.
 
Ikari said:
Do you have evidence of it? Some proof? Or am I only to accept your word that this happened.
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Uhhh? What? Kinda common knowledge, dude: 2010 Times Square car bombing attempt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And that's what, 1?
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2010 Portland car bomb plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hudson River bomb plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There's many more. But...you don't know about them. So to you it's not important. Again: uninformed.

1 case (if that, since you haven't actually demonstrated this) out of...what? How much information are you collecting, how much spying are you engaging in.
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You don't get to know. Sorry.

And we got 1. I'm not sure that this is a good return on investment.
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Well, this is why I said you're uninformed. You just...proved it. You don't know. That's fine, you don't need to. So...that's that.

Prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO.
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I don't need to. You're not a decision maker. You don't matter. Thai's here!
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Uhhh? What? Kinda common knowledge, dude: 2010 Times Square car bombing attempt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



2010 Portland car bomb plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hudson River bomb plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There's many more. But...you don't know about them. So to you it's not important. Again: uninformed.



You don't get to know. Sorry.



Well, this is why I said you're uninformed. You just...proved it. You don't know. That's fine, you don't need to. So...that's that.



I don't need to. You're not a decision maker. You don't matter. Thai's here!
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Let's say that these are all true and attributable solely to the expansion of data collection (which is not demonstrated in any of your links, we had a system before and perhaps that system would have also gotten this, so you still have no PROOF that you're doing anything substantial other than spying on everyone, but I'm sure someone of your credentials knows all about statistics and proof) and massive spying against the American People. That's what.....3? 3 given how much? How much bigger is government, how much more are you spying, how much data is collected and sorted. 3 out of what?

I fear you're trying to hide an embarrisingly low percentage. Which is why I say (yet again) prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO. You have provided no evidence nor proof of the efficiency and legitimacy of these massive "Paper's Please" policies.
 
Ikari said:
Let's say that these are all true and attributable solely to the expansion of data collection (which is not demonstrated in any of your links, we had a system before and perhaps that system would have also gotten this, so you still have no PROOF that you're doing anything substantial other than spying on everyone, but I'm sure someone of your credentials knows all about statistics and proof) and massive spying against the American People. That's what.....3? 3 given how much? How much bigger is government, how much more are you spying, how much data is collected and sorted. 3 out of what?

I fear you're trying to hide an embarrisingly low percentage. Which is why I say (yet again) prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO. You have provided no evidence nor proof of the efficiency and legitimacy of these massive "Paper's Please" policies.
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lol talk to your representative. Are you asking for classified information? ....why do you think you should have access to it? So you have a security clearance Ikari?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
lol talk to your representative. Are you asking for classified information? ....why do you think you should have access to it? So you have a security clearance Ikari?
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Why? Because only through my informed opinion may I properly control the government. You say I have representatives, but if what they do is hidden, I cannot properly servo the system. So obviously to keep the Republic, to have my say, to elect the right officials to represent my sovereignty and freedom; I must have the information to do so. Subverting that is treason, it's anti-American and anti-Freedom.

If I am to control this Republic, then I need the information. So where is it? Can you back up any of your claims? Or is this just a man trying to protect his next meal? Without the numbers, without the data, without the proof, I cannot be certain and must assume the latter.
 
Ikari said:
Why? Because only through my informed opinion may I properly control the government. You say I have representatives, but if what they do is hidden, I cannot properly servo the system. So obviously to keep the Republic, to have my say, to elect the right officials to represent my sovereignty and freedom; I must have the information to do so. Subverting that is treason, it's anti-American and anti-Freedom.

If I am to control this Republic, then I need the information. So where is it? Can you back up any of your claims? Or is this just a man trying to protect his next meal? Without the numbers, without the data, without the proof, I cannot be certain and must assume the latter.
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You apparently do not like the system of government the founders created. Odd from someone calling himself a patriot, no? Aren't you guys usually big constitutionalists?
 
(But I did like the "trying to protect his next meal" thing: Ikari, you're not a threat to me)
 
OldWorldOrder said:
You apparently do not like the system of government the founders created. Odd from someone calling himself a patriot, no? Aren't you guys usually big constitutionalists?
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Oh, I love what they created. Nice deflection. Their system relies on an educated populace, but you're trying to keep us ignorant. You are acting counter to the desires of the founders and the necessities to keep the Republic.

So again, maybe without deflection this time (it's a pretty pathetic form of argument, BTW, maybe just keep note of that in the future) prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO. Can you do it?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
(But I did like the "trying to protect his next meal" thing: Ikari, you're not a threat to me)
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I'm not trying to be a threat to you. I'm just explaining why you are biased source and why I cannot take your word without proof of it.
 
Ikari said:
Oh, I love what they created. Nice deflection. Their system relies on an educated populace, but you're trying to keep us ignorant. You are acting counter to the desires of the founders and the necessities to keep the Republic.

So again, maybe without deflection this time (it's a pretty pathetic form of argument, BTW, maybe just keep note of that in the future) prove it with numbers, with facts, with information. Otherwise, it's just your words, and words are wind. Proof or GTFO. Can you do it?
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No, because I don't feel like giving you classified information. You have no need to know.

And no, apparently you don't like the system. Sorry! You can move!
 
Ikari said:
I'm not trying to be a threat to you. I'm just explaining why you are biased source and why I cannot take your word without proof of it.
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You don't get it. You're representatives do. The way this country was formed. You don't have to like it, but we won't change it for you. Sorry!
 
OldWorldOrder said:
No, because I don't feel like giving you classified information. You have no need to know.

And no, apparently you don't like the system. Sorry! You can move!
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I do NEED to know. In order to control the system I must know. In order to make the proper choice of Representative, I need to know. The entirety of the Republic revolves around an educated populace. Why the effort to keep me ignorant? Why can you not tell me so that I may judge whether or not my Representative is doing the appropriate job?

See, this is what it comes down to, a man trying to justify his lunch claiming that which earns his lunch is necessary but unable to actually show how. That's where you are at. You cannot demonstrate any of your claims, but I am to accept them merely because you made them. That's not a Republic, BTW, that's Oligarchy....Fascism. It's the exact ploy used by China. Keep them ignorant and you can keep them a slave. And you are on the side of ignorance.

So until you can actually demonstrate your claims, they remain the ravings of a man invested in his paycheck and nothing more.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
No, because I don't feel like giving you classified information. You have no need to know.

And no, apparently you don't like the system. Sorry! You can move!
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Or we can just get rid of people like you, and while we are at it, cut payment of your pensions. People that take part in abusing people shouldn't get a pension.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
You don't get it. You're representatives do. The way this country was formed. You don't have to like it, but we won't change it for you. Sorry!
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You don't get it. Unless I know how they are making their decisions and by what evidence and proof, I cannot accurately servo the system and control the representation. I must have the information, I must have the data to make the educated decisions necessary to keep the Republic.

Those fighting to keep others in ignorance are rarely in the right. History has demonstrated this.
 
Henrin said:
Or we can just get rid of people like you, and while we are at it, cut payment of your pensions. People that take part in abusing people shouldn't get a pension.
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He's just a man protecting his bread, nothing more. He cannot demonstrate any effect, he cannot show any benefit, all he can do is hide the truth in ignorance and claim the ignorance is justified. Those without argument are oft left to deception.
 
Henrin said:
Or we can just get rid of people like you, and while we are at it, cut payment of your pensions. People that take part in abusing people shouldn't get a pension.
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People with master's degrees, fluent in Chinese, combat experience, and a security clearance? No, I'll be pretty comfortable as long as I want, I think. Important to be marketable!
 
Ikari said:
You don't get it. Unless I know how they are making their decisions and by what evidence and proof, I cannot accurately servo the system and control the representation. I must have the information, I must have the data to make the educated decisions necessary to keep the Republic.

Those fighting to keep others in ignorance are rarely in the right. History has demonstrated this.
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That would be absolutely moronic. Share classified information...presumably all the time...just so you feel better? Nah, I think I'll go with the founders here.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
People with master's degrees, fluent in Chinese, combat experience, and a security clearance? No, I'll be pretty comfortable as long as I want, I think. Important to be marketable!
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A whole Master's Degree. Oooooooooooo. In what? An MBA? Hahahahahaha
 
Regardless of whether one agrees with the electronic intrusion into the personal lives of US citizens and your allies, the thinking really is Orwellian.

But that seemed lost on Alexander. "I think our nation has drifted into the wrong place," he told the Times. "We need to recognize that those who are working to protect our nation are not the bad people."
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No, only good people go through your garbage.

That justifies what? The fact the ELECTORATE is pissed makes THEM wrong?

To suggest the eaves dropping is the sole reason the US has not been attacked since 911 is, frankly, fool's logic. No one has EVER attacked Canada, other than our best friends the United States is proof that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are doing a great job of protecting the country? We've never been invaded by aliens either, so our security service must be top notch!

Freedom is not being watched by a government. Democracy is NEVER served by secrecy.

I think we should honor his retirement by following him and his family 24/7 with a video camera. I bet he's seeking legal action to protect HIS privacy within 48 hours.

Since when does a career general know anything about human rights? They're dictators by nature.
 
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OldWorldOrder said:
That would be absolutely moronic. Share classified information...presumably all the time...just so you feel better? Nah, I think I'll go with the founders here.
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You are going against the founders. You keep saying "classified information", but this too is a sham. For while there is certainly information to be classified, you use it as a blank check to keep ALL information classified. And that's right out.

You cannot prove your point, you cannot show the inefficiencies, you cannot demonstrate effect. Just another welfare queen; but unfortunately one with the ability to exercise force against the People.
 
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