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Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

mak2 said:
I dont think we should go to war with Russia. Even thought it is Obama and everything he does in wrong, even the right doesnt beleive a war with Russia is a good idea. Do they?
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Probably true, with the notable exception of the hawks, who are daily telling us the things that Obama should be doing, which of course would lead to war, we have plenty of history to know that.
 
iguanaman said:
Bluff a willingness to start WWIII? That seems a bit extreme and not very credible.
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The fear of the left is crippling and cowardice. Incompetent foreign policy.

For decades, the USA did tit-for-tat with the USSR during the Cold War, when the USSR was 3 times the power Russia is. But the left constantly keeps shouting "OMG WWIII!" in pure cowardice and incompetence.

This is the definition of stupidity. Nuclear weapons are irrelevancies between the USA and Russia (which is again becoming the USSR for the White House flying the white flag of surrender.) Any threat of nuclear weapons by Russia is Russia holding a gun to its own head demanding to give them what they want or they will commit suicide. They know it. We know it.

Talk of WWIII with Russia is absurd.

If either Putin or Obama gave the command to launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack all we would ever know is a news report that the one of them who did so had died in a freak accident or sudden heart attack. Neither the TRUE leadership of the USA or USSR would allow this to happen, nor would we ever know there was the attempt.
 
MMC said:
Mornin' CJ. :2wave: Yeah I agree in order for the Diplomacy to work they will have to stop threatening or as you say drawing lines in the sand. Btw did ya see the Thread I threw up with Putin now being concerned about Estonian Speaking Russians in Estonia. That was their response to Samantha Powers in the UN getting up and walking out on them.
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Howdy MMC, yeah that was a good thread you put up too. What's the matter, SP in over her head?
 
Ockham said:
We'll see. Germany doesn't have the cash to really do much on it's own, it's either the EU nations comes together and the UK and US can back them up or nothing happens. Right now Germany is the primary leg holding up the chair that is the EU, economically anyway.
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Unless I missed it, everyone that can do something has stated in no uncertain terms that they're NOT going to do anything.
 
It is notable that Obama stated there would be no USA troops in Ukraine, not just Crimea.

His announcement is worldwide notice that Russia has Obama's open permission to militarily take any more of the Ukraine that Putin wants. It now appears to be the open policy of the USA that Russia may use it's military to recapture and re-subjugate any forum Eastern USSR block countries.
 
apdst said:
Unless I missed it, everyone that can do something has stated in no uncertain terms that they're NOT going to do anything.
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Sounds about right.
 
apdst said:
Unless I missed it, everyone that can do something has stated in no uncertain terms that they're NOT going to do anything.
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Putin understand that. Anything he wants is his for the taking. He can endlessly feed his ego on the pains of abandoned peoples and countries. He is the current ruler of the world.
 
mak2 said:
I dont think we should go to war with Russia. Even thought it is Obama and everything he does in wrong, even the right doesnt beleive a war with Russia is a good idea. Do they?
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If Obama says it's a bad idea, then the self described conservatives will be for it.
 
apdst said:
And assuring the Russians that no matter what they do, we're not going to lift a finger?

That's been done in the past and millions of people died as a result.
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What finger do you want to lift this time apdst? The usual? Nothing short of FORCE will stop Russia now. If we were worried about that, perhaps Mrs. Nuland shouldn't have been working behind the scenes to install a pro-US/West government, and left well enough alone for Ukraine to accept the better deal they were being offered from Russia!
 
Montecresto said:
Smart move, we don't need to be triggering an actual war with Russia.
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Mornin' Monte. :2wave: Yeah.....I think so to. Although I doubt McCain is to happy about it. Still I wouldn't give the Ukrainians anymore money and I definitely wouldn't share any of our tech with them. As no doubt it will fall into Russian hands immediately.


Although like I started off with.....I am sure we will be involved in any exercises called upon by NATO members. We do have to honor the NATO commitment.
 
bubbabgone said:
Of course he's right ... along those lines I'm surprised every mom & pop store doesn't post a sign that says ...

View attachment 67163658
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I like the sign. My view on this one is a bit more like the police refusing to respond to a call that is not within their jurisdiction. I don't even think there should be sanctions, whatever that really means in this context. Leave it to the UN and NATO. To me this just looks like a lot of talk intended to keep us from talking about things that matter here.
 
joko104 said:
It is notable that Obama stated there would be no USA troops in Ukraine, not just Crimea.

His announcement is worldwide notice that Russia has Obama's open permission to militarily take any more of the Ukraine that Putin wants. It now appears to be the open policy of the USA that Russia may use it's military to recapture and re-subjugate any forum Eastern USSR block countries.
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And you'd be in favor of Obama putting troops in Ukraine, troops that would certainly clash with Russian troops, and then it would be on. FYI, we wouldn't be pushing Putin around like the weak sickly kids in class that we usually puff our chest out and take on like Hussein, Gaddafi, etc.
 
Thorgasm said:
That renders your 1930's fear mongering pointless.
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It is post WWIII "fear mongering," not 1930s. Russia is reassembling the USSR and the cold war is on - whether we like it or not - and we are losing.

The invasion of Crimea possibly only because Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons signals a future massive nuclear weapons proliferation worldwide. So 1930s fears are irrelevant as Germany and Japan did not have nuclear weapons. Increasingly 3rd tier countries of unstable dictators and theocrats will.

The long term result of not honoring the nuclear disarmament treaty with Ukraine will be a nuclear weapon going off in NYC - though that is a decade or 2 away. The attention span and planning for the future of this country now does not extend beyond the next emergency temporary budget kicking the can down the road.
 
Montecresto said:
What finger do you want to lift this time apdst? The usual? Nothing short of FORCE will stop Russia now. If we were worried about that, perhaps Mrs. Nuland shouldn't have been working behind the scenes to install a pro-US/West government, and left well enough alone for Ukraine to accept the better deal they were being offered from Russia!
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Nothing short of military force NOW. Russia is only doing this because Obama has already made it obvious that he isn't going to do anything but run his mouth.

I mean, the Russians are calling Obama a prankster...lol!
 
tech30528 said:
I like the sign. My view on this one is a bit more like the police refusing to respond to a call that is not within their jurisdiction. I don't even think there should be sanctions, whatever that really means in this context. Leave it to the UN and NATO. To me this just looks like a lot of talk intended to keep us from talking about things that matter here.
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There is only one thing that really matters: The treaty for the nuclear disarmaments treaty with the Ukraine - which incredibly gave up the 3rd largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world - wasn't worth the cost of the paper it was written on.

Every country in the world now knows this. Without nuclear weapons they are subject to invasion by any major power regardless of any agreement with that major power. Treaties and agreements to not obtain nuclear weapons are nothing but pre-invasion trickery.
 
apdst said:
Nothing short of military force NOW. Russia is only doing this because Obama has already made it obvious that he isn't going to do anything but run his mouth.

I mean, the Russians are calling Obama a prankster...lol!
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You puttin on the uniform and leading the charge?
 
joko104 said:
There is only one thing that really matters: The treaty for the nuclear disarmaments treaty with the Ukraine - which incredibly gave up the 3rd largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world - wasn't worth the cost of the paper it was written on.

Every country in the world now knows this. Without nuclear weapons they are subject to invasion by any major power regardless of any agreement with that major power. Treaties and agreements to not obtain nuclear weapons are nothing but pre-invasion trickery.
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Seems to run parallel to disarming citizens. Huh.
 
Montecresto said:
Howdy MMC, yeah that was a good thread you put up too. What's the matter, SP in over her head?
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All she did was rail in the UN and get up and walk out.....Churkin went to town on that crap in front of the UN Body. Then Pudding brought up that bit about Estonia.....and immediately the other countries Simplexity had up started squaking. Now the UN is sending in a Human Rights Observers to the Ukraine. Plus Durbin and Johnny Quest want to send in the OSCE Observers. Which Russia blocked that on the Security Council.

So we will have a bunch of Armies all out Practicing drills and maneuvers in front of each other. Won't be getting around that fact.

Also Now Putin has stated they will change their Stance on Iran.


Russia warns West it may change stance on Iran, in retaliation over sanctions

Russia reportedly is prepared to change its stand on Iran nuclear talks in a high-stakes gamble to counter expanded sanctions by the United States and the European Union over Crimea.

After the Obama administration on Monday hit 11 Russian and Ukrainian officials with sanctions -- a move criticized by Republican lawmakers as too timid -- Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov was quoted Wednesday by the Interfax news agency as saying the country may have to alter its position on the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

The statement is the most serious threat of retaliation by Moscow since the disputed Crimea region voted to join Russia over the weekend, and Vladimir Putin's government moved to annex the peninsula.

NATO and U.S. leaders say they're prepared to do more.

Speaking at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., he also said NATO, as a first step, is suspending joint planning for operations removing chemical weapons from Syria.

Ukraine's security chief also announced Wednesday that his country will hold joint military exercises with the United States and Britain

The United Nations is also deploying a 34-member human rights monitoring mission to Ukraine, scheduled to be in place by Friday. Ivan Simonovic, assistant secretary-general for human rights, expressed particular concern over the security of Tatars and other ethnic minorities in Crimea.

A letter sent by Sen. Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, and six other lawmakers says monitors are needed to defuse tensions in Ukraine after Russia's takeover of the Crimean peninsula. The lawmakers visited Ukraine last week and say Russia is using "provocateurs and intelligence agents to brazenly stir trouble" in eastern Ukraine as a possible "manipulated pretext for additional military action.".....snip~

Russia warns West it may change stance on Iran, in retaliation over sanctions | Fox News
 
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MMC said:
Mornin' CJ. :2wave: Yeah I agree in order for the Diplomacy to work they will have to stop threatening or as you say drawing lines in the sand. Btw did ya see the Thread I threw up with Putin now being concerned about Estonian Speaking Russians in Estonia. That was their response to Samantha Powers in the UN getting up and walking out on them.
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Hi MMC - yes, Russia is in position now to stretch the boundaries of acceptible behaviour since no one seems to be able to stop him so far. I do think, however, that Estonia and other places with ethnic Russians may be a bridge too far in that the NATO alliance defense treaties kick in and I'm not sure even Putin wants to tempt that fate. While there's no harm evident to the citizens of Russia, they will support Putin in these kinds of moves - if it comes to imminent war, I think Putin would be deposed by those around him before it got that far.
 
Deuce said:
Apparently they do think that, mak
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Apparently, according to you, your side doesn't believe in honouring your treaty commitments. Hopefully/fortunately, there are at least some honorable men left in the Democrat party in America.
 
joko104 said:
It is post WWIII "fear mongering," not 1930s. Russia is reassembling the USSR and the cold war is on - whether we like it or not - and we are losing.

The invasion of Crimea possibly only because Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons signals a future massive nuclear weapons proliferation worldwide. So 1930s fears are irrelevant as Germany and Japan did not have nuclear weapons. Increasingly 3rd tier countries of unstable dictators and theocrats will.

The long term result of not honoring the nuclear disarmament treaty with Ukraine will be a nuclear weapon going off in NYC - though that is a decade or 2 away. The attention span and planning for the future of this country now does not extend beyond the next emergency temporary budget kicking the can down the road.
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Good grief.
 
apdst said:
Nothing!...lol! I can't help but wonder if Obama isn't being complicit with Putin.
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I wouldn't go that far - even though I believe Obama is, as the Texans say, "all hat, no cattle", there's really not much that American military power can do in Crimea and in the Ukraine. There may be failures that led to this point, but as it stands now the onus is on the EU, most directly threatened, and on the NATO alliance, should Russia foolishly advance further.

I'd like to see NATO come up with a strong posture/statement with a clear red line for them as an alliance. As a member country here in Canada, I believe that any commitment NATO makes to military and/or other action will have consequences and not just be idle threats.
 
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