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US Rejects Crimea Vote, says Russian actions 'Dangerous'.....

Simpleχity;1063042030 said:
It is also unconstitutional in regards to the Crimean constitution...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ion-annexation-tomorrow-3.html#post1063040025
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That is totally irrelevant to this (I am referring to Obama, not you posting this).

So, would Obama agree with the Ukrainian constitution if it made it legal to shoot gays on sight? Of course not.

So this Obama nonsense that he objects to this vote (partly) because it goes against the Ukrainian constitution is total baloney.

It's just a lame excuse he has cooked up.
 
Obama had rejected the referendum even before people started voting. But perhaps Crimeans care only of Russia!
 
Fearandloathing said:
By what standard is it unconstitutional and why would you say that after admitting you know little about the Ukraine constitution.

What gives the right for the United States to demand anything in the region? Since when is the US the final authority about what is right and is wrong with the world especially since you started a war 13 years ago to protect your so-called "way of life" and the proceeded to withdraw every one of those rights with the Patriot act?

If the US wants to make demands on Russia, what if this mysterious "international community" Kerry and Obama keep blathering about, demanded the US undergo constitutional reforms and repeal the rights destroying Patriot Act.

The Obama administration blew this. They either allowed to continue or initiated a regime change with CIA meddling, arrogantly not considering what Putin might do. Obama pushed his hand and now we are the verge of yet another war involving the Americans.
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Several commentators and US government officials I read or heard on TV mentioned that the vote was extra-constitutional. Having not read the document I don't know that for a fact but I'm willing to stipulate it for now.
 
DDD said:
Obama had rejected the referendum even before people started voting. But perhaps Crimeans care only of Russia!
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After military invasion and conquest, Russia has given Crimeans the choice of leaving the Ukraine OR leaving the Ukraine.
 
joko104 said:
After military invasion and conquest, Russia has given Crimeans the choice of leaving the Ukraine OR leaving the Ukraine.
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I think the choices were: a) Russia, b) Crimean parliament made of majority Russians.
 
apdst said:
Ukraine's constitition doesn't contain any provision for secession.
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Link?


The only member of this imaginary "international community" Obama and Kerry and Obama keep prattling about is Obama and Kerry. The EU has condemned the vote, but not on constitutional groups, but the fact it was military backed.

Obama is hardly an expert on anyone's constitution as he seems confused about his own, the United States contains no provision to amend duly passed legislation but he's done it 27 times with one law he commissioned. How the US interfered through the CIA in the Ukraine's ouster of the previous administration is hardly a glass house from which the US can hurl opinions on law written in another language and an Eastern culture.

Nor is anyone factoring in the reality, that pro western support in the Crimea is in the minority, a minority that boycotted the vote.
 
Gaius46 said:
Several commentators and US government officials I read or heard on TV mentioned that the vote was extra-constitutional. Having not read the document I don't know that for a fact but I'm willing to stipulate it for now.
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Oh, and these unnamed commentators and government officials are experts how.

Commentators like Chris Mathews?
 
SBu said:
I do hope we respond strongly with economic sanctions. Russia needs to see that if it is going to act like a rogue state, then it will have to live like a rogue state. Perhaps that will remind them that the good ole days weren't so peachy. Up to now, I believe Putin has been surprised how easy it has been for him to occupy parts of another country and annex it. He has sacrificed a lot of political capital to do it, though.
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Normally I'd agree - isolation and economic hardship can be effective - but not always. Given the current state of global economics, fragility of markets across the board I'm more worried this will boomerang.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Oh, and these unnamed commentators and government officials are experts how.

Commentators like Chris Mathews?
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CNN talking heads, Wall Street Journal and NY Times writers, President Obama, either directly or through administration spokespeople. You don't need to be an expert. You just need to read the Ukraine Constitution. Since no one's challenged Obama's statement that the vote is illegal under Ukraine law it's reasonable to assume that that is a true statement. Do you have information to the contrary? If so please post it.

In any case I've already stated that if the Crimean people want to be part of Russia that should be allowed to happen.
 
Gaius46 said:
CNN talking heads, Wall Street Journal and NY Times writers, President Obama, either directly or through administration spokespeople. You don't need to be an expert. You just need to read the Ukraine Constitution. Since no one's challenged Obama's statement that the vote is illegal under Ukraine law it's reasonable to assume that that is a true statement. Do you have information to the contrary? If so please post it.

In any case I've already stated that if the Crimean people want to be part of Russia that should be allowed to happen.
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Here try this one Gaius.....From the French.



Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France


French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Tuesday that sanctions against Russia over Ukraine could be imposed as early as this week if Moscow failed to respond positively to a proposition designed to calm the crisis.

Fabius told radio station France Inter that a referendum in the Crimea region on joining Russia set for March 16 was illegitimate and that the annexation of the region by Russia would be illegal.

"We cannot accept something that is illegal and which will also have very serious consequences," Fabius said.

The minister said the "only legitimate vote" was that for the president of Ukraine on May 25.....snip~

Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France

Guess who that is? That's Right.....Yanokovich.
 
MMC said:
Here try this one Gaius.....From the French.



Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France


French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Tuesday that sanctions against Russia over Ukraine could be imposed as early as this week if Moscow failed to respond positively to a proposition designed to calm the crisis.

Fabius told radio station France Inter that a referendum in the Crimea region on joining Russia set for March 16 was illegitimate and that the annexation of the region by Russia would be illegal.

"We cannot accept something that is illegal and which will also have very serious consequences," Fabius said.

The minister said the "only legitimate vote" was that for the president of Ukraine on May 25.....snip~

Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France

Guess who that is? That's Right.....Yanokovich.
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I wonder how Fabius and Sarkozy will react if Russia stop supplying France with oil and gas? And what is Germany doing these days, except watching the ongoing drama show?
 
polgara said:
I wonder how Fabius and Sarkozy will react if Russia stop supplying France with oil and gas? And what is Germany doing these days, except watching the ongoing drama show?
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Heya Lady P......I wonder why the Media wasn't focusing in on what France said.
thinking.gif


As for Merkel......I heard she finally spoke to Putin.
 
MMC said:
Here try this one Gaius.....From the French.



Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France


French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Tuesday that sanctions against Russia over Ukraine could be imposed as early as this week if Moscow failed to respond positively to a proposition designed to calm the crisis.

Fabius told radio station France Inter that a referendum in the Crimea region on joining Russia set for March 16 was illegitimate and that the annexation of the region by Russia would be illegal.

"We cannot accept something that is illegal and which will also have very serious consequences," Fabius said.

The minister said the "only legitimate vote" was that for the president of Ukraine on May 25.....snip~

Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France

Guess who that is? That's Right.....Yanokovich.
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Thanks MMC. The British have said much the same thing. I'd be surprised if they had a legal means to secede honestly. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to though.
 
MMC said:
Yeah I know....but I figure France wont accept any Democratic Coup over Democracy.
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A Democratic coup over Democracy?

I don't believe the French care one way or the other how this thing is settled by the Ukrainian Parliament. The real issue here is Putin, the rest is small potatoes.
 
MMC said:
Heya Lady P......I wonder why the Media wasn't focusing in on what France said.
thinking.gif


As for Merkel......I heard she finally spoke to Putin.
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Well maybe someone with sense will finally get involved! All I've seen so far is stuffed-shirt hotheads running all over the place making things worse by the minute! :thumbdown: France is going to sanction Russia? Uh huh, got it! No more Moet wine deliveries? No more designer clothing? Russia is really going to be sorry!
 
Fearandloathing said:
Link?


The only member of this imaginary "international community" Obama and Kerry and Obama keep prattling about is Obama and Kerry. The EU has condemned the vote, but not on constitutional groups, but the fact it was military backed.

Obama is hardly an expert on anyone's constitution as he seems confused about his own, the United States contains no provision to amend duly passed legislation but he's done it 27 times with one law he commissioned. How the US interfered through the CIA in the Ukraine's ouster of the previous administration is hardly a glass house from which the US can hurl opinions on law written in another language and an Eastern culture.

Nor is anyone factoring in the reality, that pro western support in the Crimea is in the minority, a minority that boycotted the vote.
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I cant prove a negative.
 
MMC said:
Yeah it does.....it also looks like the Ukrainians decided to give Democracy a kick in the ass too. Going with a Coup of a Democratic Elected Leader and a Democratic Election.

Not only did they sign off on it.....but then they actually think that the Rest of the World will forget what they did and Only look at Putin. Now isn't that quite funny.

Do you think the western MS media can help try and hide that fact now even if they don't like or want to have to report it?
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Not very likely, seeing’s as they have a plane to concentrate on now. Coincidence?:roll: That planes long trip under radar sure has my paranoia antenna twitching.:shock:
 
Donc said:
Not very likely, seeing’s as they have a plane to concentrate on now. Coincidence?:roll: That planes long trip under radar sure has my paranoia antenna twitching.:shock:
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No need to worry anymore tho.....Right. 25 nations are now looking. We will finds it.....there is No escape from Planet Earth. <evil Laugh>
 
Gaius46 said:
CNN talking heads, Wall Street Journal and NY Times writers, President Obama, either directly or through administration spokespeople. You don't need to be an expert. You just need to read the Ukraine Constitution. Since no one's challenged Obama's statement that the vote is illegal under Ukraine law it's reasonable to assume that that is a true statement. Do you have information to the contrary? If so please post it.

In any case I've already stated that if the Crimean people want to be part of Russia that should be allowed to happen.
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I would suggest that the 95% who voted in favor, Putin and most Russians disagree with a president who appear not to even understand his own.
 
Fearandloathing said:
I would suggest that the 95% who voted in favor, Putin and most Russians disagree with a president who appear not to even understand his own.
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Not to pick nits but if the United States is any indicator I'd guess most people in most countries have no idea what their constitutions say in any grea detail.
 
MMC said:
As for Merkel......I heard she finally spoke to Putin.
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Merkel speaks with Putin almost every day. She's is the key to any resolution to the problem. Putin and her don't use translators as they both speak each others languages fluently. They know each other very well. Putin respects her and so does Moscow. She was against expanding NATO to the east into the Ukraine and Georgia knowing it would piss off Russia. That's Russia's red line. What people aren't talking about is part of the EU package that was rejected by Ukraine was the stepping stone to NATO membership. Once the Ukraine's pro-NATO revolutionaries took over.. all bets were off.

Now the illegal PM of Ukraine is realizing this and trying to correct his position of Ukraine being a future NATO member to being one of Non-Alignment.
 
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