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4 nations urge US gas exports amid Ukraine crisis

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4 nations urge US gas exports amid Ukraine crisis

Four Central European nations are urging the United States to boost natural gas exports to Europe as a hedge against the possibility that Russia could cut off its supply of gas to Ukraine.

Ambassadors from Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic made their appeal Friday in a letter to House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio. A similar letter was expected to be sent to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

"Gas-to-gas competition in our region is a vital aspect of national security and a key U.S. interest in the region," the ambassadors wrote in a letter obtained by The Associated Press.

Ukraine is heavily dependent on Russian natural gas, and previous disputes between Ukraine and Russia have led to gas supply cuts. Russian state gas company Gazprom has increased the pressure on Ukraine's new government, which now owes $1.89 billion for Russian natural gas, by warning that if Ukraine doesn't pay off its debt, there could be a repeat of 2009, when Russia cut off supplies to Europe because of a pricing dispute with Ukraine.

Recent advancements have made it possible for gas that normally flows through Ukraine to the EU to instead flow the other direction, so that nations like Poland and Hungary can supply gas to Ukraine if Russia were to cut off its supply. But with gas supplies limited, the region is still vulnerable unless the U.S. makes it easier to import American natural gas, the ambassadors argued.

Boehner and Republicans have been urging the Obama administration to clear the way for more exports amid a natural gas boom in the U.S. The Energy Department has only approved six export licenses in recent years out of about two dozen pending.

The White House has argued that Russia's dependence on gas revenues makes it unlikely that the country will cut off supplies to Europe despite the ongoing crisis in the Ukrainian region of Crimea, where the Russian military has intervened in what the U.S. regards as a violation of international law.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Friday that because Europe has had a relatively mild winter, gas supplies are at or above normal levels. He said even if the U.S. did approve more export licenses, it would take until the end of 2015 for gas to be delivered.


Can the US spare any excess to export more natural gas, with all the new finds and explorations in North American? Is it too cost prohibitive and not in our interest, or will it give us more leveage economically to deal with Russia's aggression?
 
4 nations urge US gas exports amid Ukraine crisis






Can the US spare any excess to export more natural gas, with all the new finds and explorations in North American? Is it too cost prohibitive and not in our interest, or will it give us more leveage economically to deal with Russia's aggression?

The US has lots of natural gas, but it seems to me it would be expensive to ship it to Europe. It's not like there is a pipeline across the Atlantic.
 
The US has lots of natural gas, but it seems to me it would be expensive to ship it to Europe. It's not like there is a pipeline across the Atlantic.

I've read this is the case and why we currently don't do it much. If we had some mass capacity to ship it, I think they would.
 
The US has lots of natural gas, but it seems to me it would be expensive to ship it to Europe. It's not like there is a pipeline across the Atlantic.

Current shipping capacity (I think there are about 300 ships)....could possibly ship about 10% of what flows through Russian pipelines each day....once a month or so.
 
Current shipping capacity (I think there are about 300 ships)....could possibly ship about 10% of what flows through Russian pipelines each day....once a month or so.

Shipping gas to Europe wouldn't seem to be a solution, then.
 
The US has lots of natural gas, but it seems to me it would be expensive to ship it to Europe. It's not like there is a pipeline across the Atlantic.

It's no different than shipping oil from the ME.
 
It's no different than shipping oil from the ME.


Shipping natural gas is very different

To ship natural gas effectively by ship it needs to be liquefied, meaning very cold temperatures and high pressures. Meaning a far higher investment in infrastructure at the ports and the ships themselves. The US does not have a surplus of oil, but in certain areas can or does have one of natural gas. To my knowledge Qatar and another country that I can not remember are the only countries that engage in shipping liquefied natural gas in any real volume.

Overall the costs are very high, the lead times quite long. By the time the infrastructure in the US is built, Europe may have engaged in fracking (Poland and Ukraine are believed to have significant quantities of shale gas). Making the export of liquefied natural gas from the US uneconomic (at least to Europe, Asia is a different story
 
Shipping natural gas is very different

To ship natural gas effectively by ship it needs to be liquefied, meaning very cold temperatures and high pressures. Meaning a far higher investment in infrastructure at the ports and the ships themselves. The US does not have a surplus of oil, but in certain areas can or does have one of natural gas. To my knowledge Qatar and another country that I can not remember are the only countries that engage in shipping liquefied natural gas in any real volume.

Overall the costs are very high, the lead times quite long. By the time the infrastructure in the US is built, Europe may have engaged in fracking (Poland and Ukraine are believed to have significant quantities of shale gas). Making the export of liquefied natural gas from the US uneconomic (at least to Europe, Asia is a different story

Looks like a new demand that will create jobs.
 
Looks like a new demand that will create jobs.

If there are any companies willing to make the multibillion dollar risk of building the port facilities and the ships for a potential profit, or potential white elephant

If there are, then a large number of construction jobs will be create in the US for the ports, and in China/South Korea for the ships
 
Current shipping capacity (I think there are about 300 ships)....could possibly ship about 10% of what flows through Russian pipelines each day....once a month or so.

And the CONs know this but they tripped all over themselves getting on the Sunday morning squabble shows to demand we send our NG to Europe to cut the Russians out of the European market, create jobs and lower costs of Gas (not sure how that happens)

Fantasy and partisan rhetoric...
 
I'll be glad to help them all out. I've got plenty of gas.
 
I think it's about time the EU nuts up and handles their own problems. We've spent far to much in resources providing for countries who don't much care for us anyway. I'm about tired of hearing how superior they think they are. Fu<k em.
 
And the CONs know this but they tripped all over themselves getting on the Sunday morning squabble shows to demand we send our NG to Europe to cut the Russians out of the European market, create jobs and lower costs of Gas (not sure how that happens)

Fantasy and partisan rhetoric...

Obviously....the later.
 
The US has lots of natural gas, but it seems to me it would be expensive to ship it to Europe. It's not like there is a pipeline across the Atlantic.

Dont give them any ideas, next thing that we know is that we will be building a pipeline across the ocean.
 
My, how far we've advanced. Back in the day, the Allies airlifted an entire city's worth of supplies into Berlin when the Russians clamped down.

Now, the Russians are clamping down once again, for the same reasons (they want to annex someone else's land) and we only have the same option available, ship it in.

I think that the historical parallel should be a wake up call to entire planet about Putin's vision for Russia.

'Yeah, US, ship it in. Supply an entire country with natural gas for heating. No charge to them. You can afford it. '

Ha! BS. We can't afford it. The world doesn't have the shipping capacity to do it, as previously posted. What? Are we NOW supposed to be the world's policeman, the world's fixer, yet again?

EU's ecomentalists need to decide if they'll allow fracking or if they'll allow people to freeze to death. Shipping it from 1/2 way across the planet is not an economical nor viable option. Let's see how they decide.
 
My, how far we've advanced. Back in the day, the Allies airlifted an entire city's worth of supplies into Berlin when the Russians clamped down.

Now, the Russians are clamping down once again, for the same reasons (they want to annex someone else's land) and we only have the same option available, ship it in.

I think that the historical parallel should be a wake up call to entire planet about Putin's vision for Russia.

'Yeah, US, ship it in. Supply an entire country with natural gas for heating. No charge to them. You can afford it. '

Ha! BS. We can't afford it. The world doesn't have the shipping capacity to do it, as previously posted. What? Are we NOW supposed to be the world's policeman, the world's fixer, yet again?

EU's ecomentalists need to decide if they'll allow fracking or if they'll allow people to freeze to death. Shipping it from 1/2 way across the planet is not an economical nor viable option. Let's see how they decide.

but the markets dictate how natural gas is shipped, not the government.

russia holds all the economic keys to the ukraine and crimea.
 
but the markets dictate how natural gas is shipped, not the government.

russia holds all the economic keys to the ukraine and crimea.

Yes they do. We don't. The EU is far closer, and could help far better than we could from our distance. The EU should help, as it is in their best interests to have closer and better relations with the Ukraine than the Ukraine does with Russia.

Our best interests? Maybe, but it would depend if you believe that another cold war with the Russians is neigh.

Look, Russia has been using the Crimean ports for their fleet for like over 200 years. They just want to continue their control and access over those warm water ports. The mere fact that they are willing to pull what amounts to a cold war move by invading the Crimean peninsula, not even the entirety of the Ukraine mind you, comes across to me as cornering a wounded animal. Best to avoid it.

On the flip side, what's the course they have to sail to get those ships from the Black Sea out into the big water? Past multiple narrow straights. Ample opportunities to block those. I'm not seeing the big military and strategic loss here letting them maintain access to these Crimean ports.
 
It's no different than shipping oil from the ME.

Right. Shipping natural gas is exactly the same as shipping crude, or widgets, or anything else regardless of how much room it occupies, how heavy it is, how explosive, it doesn't matter. Shipping is shipping.

right?
 
All that's required is that we exploit our expansive gas reserves and sell the surplus on the global market. The gas doesn't have to go to Europe specifically in order to have an impact.
 
2bump.gif
Bumping up your thread Grip.....this might be some news that's relevant. They could be getting assurances from us that we will help out.


EU delays talks on new Russian pipeline.....
Associated Press – 3 hrs ago


The European Commission is delaying some talks on a new Russian pipeline that would bypass Ukraine to transport natural gas via the Black Sea to southeastern Europe.

The South Stream pipeline, in which Russia's Gazprom holds a 50 percent stake, would provide an alternative supply route for Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovenia, Austria and Italy. It's expected to ship up to 63 billion cubic meters of gas from 2018.....snip~

EU delays talks on new Russian pipeline
 
Shipping natural gas is very different

To ship natural gas effectively by ship it needs to be liquefied, meaning very cold temperatures and high pressures. Meaning a far higher investment in infrastructure at the ports and the ships themselves. The US does not have a surplus of oil, but in certain areas can or does have one of natural gas. To my knowledge Qatar and another country that I can not remember are the only countries that engage in shipping liquefied natural gas in any real volume.

Overall the costs are very high, the lead times quite long. By the time the infrastructure in the US is built, Europe may have engaged in fracking (Poland and Ukraine are believed to have significant quantities of shale gas). Making the export of liquefied natural gas from the US uneconomic (at least to Europe, Asia is a different story

There is some inaccuracies in your post. Close on the fleet, its around 350 or so. New ship builds have slowed due to the jump in US supply.

First, LNG is shipped cryogenically and relatively low pressure. Usually about 1.5 bar or about 21 psi, less than a bicycle tire. Secondly, there are over 30 LNG reliquefaction plants worldwide with another 20 or so under construction. Right now, the US has one in Alaska and another that will be online in a year or so in down in Louisiana. There are currently 4 sites in the US starting the heavily bureaucratic process for approval before construction begins. Before the US gas boom, US imported quite a lot of LNG. Most of the import facilities have gone dormant to domestic supply. Lead time is mainly due to the politics of LNG than actual construction. The technology is there and the facility is relatively easy to put up. Really just a multi-tiered train system (much like a refrigeration system).
 
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