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Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148:245]

Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Then make a thread challenging people on what so many here have called you out on. I'll not muck up a thread nor make another thread calling you on it. As I said before that is called a bait thread.

So back to the topic - are you willing to agree that people can see this action by the young man as a possible threat?
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Nor is drawing ones thumb from ear to ear across the throat. Is there any doubt about what that means?
Anyone who thinks that that is on the same level as a kid using his finger as an imaginary gun needs to have his head examined.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Anyone who thinks that that is on the same level as a kid using his finger as an imaginary gun needs to have his head examined.

Who is saying it is exactly the same? What I did say - and what you are missing - is that one can indeed use their fingers to signal a threat against another person. So all of these excuses and rationalizations claiming that it is entirely innocent are way off base. A physical gesture can indeed signal a threat.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Who is saying it is exactly the same? What I did say - and what you are missing - is that one can indeed use their fingers to signal a threat against another person. So all of these excuses and rationalizations claiming that it is entirely innocent are way off base. A physical gesture can indeed signal a threat.
So? What youre missing is that the point of zero tolerance is that using a finger just as even playing with it is a threat that is automatically punished by suspension/expulsion- that defies logic and common sense.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

So? What youre missing is that the point of zero tolerance is that using a finger just as even playing with it is a threat that is automatically punished by suspension/expulsion- that defies logic and common sense.

And I have stated over and over and over again in this thread that there are ways to review this policy and bring about changes.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Property rights.

Fell free to expand upon those two words with quotes and examples from me.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

And I have stated over and over and over again in this thread that there are ways to review this policy and bring about changes.
The best way is to get rid of it completely.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Perhaps we should see a boy who made another very scared and uncomfortable - who needs help to put him on the right path to become a wise adult down the road and steer him away from the fools who would merely use him as a pawn in their game?


some see this as nothing more than leftwing anti gun extremists trying to instill hoplophobia upon children
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Fell free to expand upon those two words with quotes and examples from me.
You support every wealth transfer scheme imaginable and even some that you haven't yet imagined. Wealth is property. Income is property. That's a good place to start.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

The best way is to get rid of it completely.

Given the reasons for the policy in the first place, I would not expect a nationwide rush to do that.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

You support every wealth transfer scheme imaginable and even some that you haven't yet imagined. Wealth is property. Income is property. That's a good place to start.

Please provide the quotes where I took that position.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

some see this as nothing more than leftwing anti gun extremists trying to instill hoplophobia upon children

Yes, I mentioned them in my post.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Please provide the quotes where I took that position.
You know, when you have to run from your own positions, that might just be a clue that your positions deeply flawed.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

You know, when you have to run from your own positions, that might just be a clue that your positions deeply flawed.

When you cannot even find my position that you claim I took that is a five hundred foot sing carved into the side of a mountain that you ain't got squat.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

When you cannot even find my position that you claim I took that is a five hundred foot sing carved into the side of a mountain that you ain't got squat.
Not sure why you have to be so slippery all the time, but lets do it this way. Do you support the idea that the state should be involved in wealth transfer schemes? And if so, how can you support this sort of thing AND support property rights?
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Not sure why you have to be so slippery all the time, but lets do it this way. Do you support the idea that the state should be involved in wealth transfer schemes? And if so, how can you support this sort of thing AND support property rights?

I see. So you make an accusation against me and then are powerless to back it up with any position I actually took. Then you are exposed for failing to support your claims against me so now you want ME to save your behind and take the stand and hopefully testify against myself.

AMAZING!!!!!

Then I can be infracted for posting stuff that has nothing to do with the thread topic and disregarding previous warnings.

EVEN MORE AMAZING!!!!



Lets start with my statement which cause you to make accusations against me in the first place and what they have to do with the topic of this thread which I am working hard to stay on.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

I see. So you make an accusation against me and then are powerless to back it up with any position I actually took. Then you are exposed for failing to support your claims against me so now you want ME to save your behind and take the stand and hopefully testify against myself.

AMAZING!!!!!

Then I can be infracted for posting stuff that has nothing to do with the thread topic and disregarding previous warnings.

EVEN MORE AMAZING!!!!



Lets start with my statement which cause you to make accusations against me in the first place and what they have to do with the topic of this thread which I am working hard to stay on.


Hmmm... looks like Fletch is right. If you can't even answer the question...
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Hmmm... looks like Fletch is right. If you can't even answer the question...

Fletch is trying to pull his own accusatory behind out of the fire that he himself set when he made accusations and claims that he could not back up.

Perhaps you could help him come up with the evidence he so sorely lacks?
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Fletch is trying to pull his own accusatory behind out of the fire that he himself set when he made accusations and claims that he could not back up.

Perhaps you could help him come up with the evidence he so sorely lacks?

Avoiding the question isn't such a great rebuttal.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Avoiding the question isn't such a great rebuttal.

To the contrary - I have met the question right head on in its face.

For several years now I have taken one consistent position here before all others: if you make an accusation against me as to what I believe or what my position is - it is totally incumbent upon the accuser to document it with quotes from me taking that position. I WILL NOT bail you out by putting myself on your witness stand with you in the position of prosecutor helping you out of the corner you painted yourself into.

You see jMotivator - when one does that it only encourages irresponsible allegations since the person making them knows they can go on a fishing expedition and make the person they irresponsibly accused give testimony which helps them out. And that is the type of intellectual laziness which will NOT be rewarded by me nor abetted by me.

I am more than happy to engage in any discussion about my actual positions I have taken but simply provide that position from me before that discussion can take place.

Nothing could be fairer than that.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

To the contrary - I have met the question right head on in its face.

For several years now I have taken one consistent position here before all others: if you make an accusation against me as to what I believe or what my position is - it is totally incumbent upon the accuser to document it with quotes from me taking that position. I WILL NOT bail you out by putting myself on your witness stand with you in the position of prosecutor helping you out of the corner you painted yourself into.

You see jMotivator - when one does that it only encourages irresponsible allegations since the person making them knows they can go on a fishing expedition and make the person they irresponsibly accused give testimony which helps them out. And that is the type of intellectual laziness which will NOT be rewarded by me nor abetted by me.

I am more than happy to engage in any discussion about my actual positions I have taken but simply provide that position from me before that discussion can take place.

Nothing could be fairer than that.

You can rationalize why you won't answer a simple question all you want, but it doesn't change the impression.

I mean, you can accuse me of something and as a gratuitous assertion I am only responsible for a gratuitous denial. If you choose to pursue it then you would need evidence.

You haven't issued the gratuitous denial yet, even when asked specifically to make it, leaving the clear impression that the gratuitous assertion was closer to accurate than you are comfortable denying.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

You can rationalize why you won't answer a simple question all you want, but it doesn't change the impression.

I mean, you can accuse me of something and as a gratuitous assertion I am only responsible for a gratuitous denial. If you choose to pursue it then you would need evidence.

You haven't issued the gratuitous denial yet, even when asked specifically to make it, leaving the clear impression that the gratuitous assertion was closer to accurate than you are comfortable denying.

I have met the question right head on in its face. And in doing so I deny a reward to intellectual laziness by offering you a shortcut for your own lack of work and research.

I was trained in collegiate debate. I debated in college for two years all over this nation against some of the best. We were trained to always understand that it is the complete and total responsibility of the person making the allegation to support that claim with verifiable evidence. When they cannot do that, simply pointing out their failure scores the matter in your favor.

For several years now I have taken one consistent position here before all others: if you make an accusation against me as to what I believe or what my position is - it is totally incumbent upon the accuser to document it with quotes from me taking that position. I WILL NOT bail you out by putting myself on your witness stand with you in the position of prosecutor helping you out of the corner you painted yourself into.

You see jMotivator - when one does that it only encourages irresponsible allegations since the person making them knows they can go on a fishing expedition and make the person they irresponsibly accused give testimony which helps them out. And that is the type of intellectual laziness which will NOT be rewarded by me nor abetted by me.

I am more than happy to engage in any discussion about my actual positions I have taken but simply provide that position from me before that discussion can take place.

Nothing could be fairer than that.

I do fully realize that there are some here who prefer the prosecutorial approach and feel it is their right to make any manner of unfounded allegations or claims and to put the other person on the defensive. Sorry - try that on some newbie without proper training. Its not going to work here and its not going to work on me.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

I have met the question right head on in its face. And in doing so I deny a reward to intellectual laziness by offering you a shortcut for your own lack of work and research.

I was trained in collegiate debate. I debated in college for two years all over this nation against some of the best. We were trained to always understand that it is the complete and total responsibility of the person making the allegation to support that claim with verifiable evidence. When they cannot do that, simply pointing out their failure scores the matter in your favor.

Which would be fine in formal debate, which this isn't. I am simply pointing out that to the outside observer the absence of a gratuitous denial is rather telling.


For several years now I have taken one consistent position here before all others: if you make an accusation against me as to what I believe or what my position is - it is totally incumbent upon the accuser to document it with quotes from me taking that position. I WILL NOT bail you out by putting myself on your witness stand with you in the position of prosecutor helping you out of the corner you painted yourself into.

I am a third party to this. I am, again, simply pointing out the difference is these two forms of exchange:

Conversation 1:

Person 1: "You ate the last bagel!"
Person 2: "No I didn't!"
Person 1: "Yes you did!"
Person 2: "Then prove it!"

Conversation 2:

Person 1: "You ate the last bagel!"
Person 2: "You can't prove it!"

In the first conversation the casual observer will identify with Person 2 and withhold judgement, in Conversation 2 Person 2 comes off as guilty as charged.

All you need to do is deny the claim, but you don't. It makes it look like you fully expect that there is evidence out there that you support higher taxes on the rich to pay for more entitlements for the poor (which is the extent of the claim Fletch leveled against you) so you won't commit to a denial.

The other alternative would be to simply accept Fletch's assertion and challenge him on why that should matter.


You see jMotivator - when one does that it only encourages irresponsible allegations since the person making them knows they can go on a fishing expedition and make the person they irresponsibly accused give testimony which helps them out. And that is the type of intellectual laziness which will NOT be rewarded by me nor abetted by me.

When one person makes a gratuitous assertion and the other person doesn't deny the claim then it encourages irresponsible allegations because, in the end, it looks like the charge was valid.

I am more than happy to engage in any discussion about my actual positions I have taken but simply provide that position from me before that discussion can take place.

You've given nobody reason to since you haven't actually rejected the claim that you support wealth transfer.

Nothing could be fairer than that.

It isn't fair or unfair. You have a very simple out that you refuse to take and it makes you look guilty. It is as simple as that.

I do fully realize that there are some here who prefer the prosecutorial approach and feel it is their right to make any manner of unfounded allegations or claims and to put the other person on the defensive. Sorry - try that on some newbie without proper training. Its not going to work here and its not going to work on me.

No, that is my whole point. You don't need to be on the defensive. A gratuitous assertion can be denied gratuitously. The only defense required of you is "No I don't." or an acceptance of the claim followed by "Why does that matter in this case?" and Fletch then has a heavy burden placed on him to make his case. Without either of those he can just assume he hit the nail on the head.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Which would be fine in formal debate, which this isn't.

This site is about debate - even uses that term in its identifying name and title. Debate is debate is debate regardless if it is formal like a collegiate debate or here. Billy Shakespeare said something about a rose and it applies to debate also.

You seem to put a lot of stock about how you perceive things will look to others and why I should be concerned about it.



It makes it look like you fully expect that ......

in the end, it looks like the charge was valid.


You've given nobody reason to since you haven't actually rejected the claim that you support wealth transfer.






I could not care less. I simply insist on proper procedures and insist that those telling me what I believe back up their statements with verifiable proof.

That is my position now regarding people telling me what my beliefs or positions are.

That has always been my position regarding people telling me what my beliefs or positions are.

That will continue to be my position in the future regarding people telling me what my beliefs or positions are.

I am more than happy to discuss my beliefs or positions. Just quote them to me to make sure they are before you go telling me what they are. otherwise- you got nothing except the musings inside your own head. And that is verifiable evidence of nothing about my views or positions.
 
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