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Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148:245]

Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Kal'Stang said:
Pretend? Sorry but I don't pretend. When it comes to my children I fight tooth and nail for them and their rights. That is after all why I am an actual parent and not just a sperm donor.
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:lol:
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Moot said:
I agree, the Ohio zero tolerance law needs to be amended. But in this case, if the school had actually followed the letter of the law, the boy would have been expelled without warning (zero tolerance). Instead, the school used common sense and warned the students, sent out three letters to parents over the course of a month warning them of the consequences if the students behaviour continued and still the boys ignored the warnings. So no, common sense didn't work and the school was forced to follow the law and suspend him. If he does it again, he'll be expelled. I don't have a problem with that.
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I honestly don't care how many warnings a school gives out. If a rule or law is idiotic then I have no problem with my children ignoring it. Just because they warn people does not mean the rule/law is any less idiotic or make it some how right for them to enforce it or punish children for ignoring it.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Kal'Stang said:
Actually no, the school does not have the right to arbritrarily make idiotic rules. In the end it is the parents who have the final say in regards to anything that involves their children so long as its not a safety issue and does not infringe on peoples rights.
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Simple because you call a rule IDIOTIC does not make it that. These policies were adopted by boards of education around the nation and have been discussed before the public just like you say they should be. Parents have the say at meetings of the Board, at meetings of the school, and through the ballot box.

Can you name or cite any districts where parents untied to get rid of these policies?

I see no real effort to change this due to public outrage.

Yep, I know exactly what civil disobedience is about. And I have no problem with letting my children know that if they feel that a rule or law is idiotic then they are free to break that rule or law and letting them know the consequences. And I will also let them know that if I agree with them then I will stand behind them 100% with their beliefs and actions.
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That is your decision. But we cannot run a school - let alone a system if such things are more than isolated incidents. That is simply reality.


btw for dropping the act of this being some sort of safety issue. As it obviously is not.
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I have no idea what you mean as it is the job of local school boards to decide what is and what is not a safety issue.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148]

Moot said:
If you had read the article you would know the student wasn't expelled for pointing a finger. He was suspended after multiple warnings about playing a game called cops and robbers in the classroom and disrupting the class.
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Okay, if he was disrupting the class instead of on the playground, I can live with that. But cops and robbers, cowboys and indians etc should be fine for the playground. but I may be showing my age there.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148]

Perotista said:
Okay, if he was disrupting the class instead of on the playground, I can live with that. But cops and robbers, cowboys and indians etc should be fine for the playground. but I may be showing my age there.
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Again, does anyone really still play cowboys and Indians? I suppose I would just HAVE to sue over that. "You let other kids play cowboys against my kid with finger guns? BIGOTS! RACISTS!!!!"

Sounds like old folks postings.

Actually, I wouldn't have any problem with kids playing cowboys and Indians. But I do suspect that **** would hit the fan if a school let kids play cowboys and Indians pretending to kill the Indians. How about playing Americans versus Mexicans?
 
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Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

joko104 said:
That is horrific parenting advise in my opinion. Yes, I would want my child to tell a teacher and to tell me. I would want her to avoid the fight. In addition, generally if there is a fight the school will treat both as equally responsible and suspend or expel them both, Education and grades were the highest priority of her education and being expelled for fighting would severely damage her academic record. That doesn't seem to have been your priority by your messages.
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As a child in school I often tried to avoid fights and let my teachers know about the bullying despite my parents telling me to defend myself. However in the end the only thing that stopped the bullying was me getting into a fight. I never threw the first punch but more often than not I did finish the fight. And when I did get the crap beat out of me the person still stopped bullying me as they realized that I wasn't really a sissy. So in the end no matter the outcome of the fight it was a win/win for me until the next bully came along and the process started all over. IE I gained enough respect from them that they stopped. When all was said and done my parents were right in telling me to defend myself even to the point of getting into a fight.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148]

Kids still play such games
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
Simple because you call a rule IDIOTIC does not make it that. These policies were adopted by boards of education around the nation and have been discussed before the public just like you say they should be. Parents have the say at meetings of the Board, at meetings of the school, and through the ballot box.
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And just like regular politicians they immediately try and do what they want done the moment they are elected despite anything the parents say. And not all things are put before parents.

haymarket said:
Can you name or cite any districts where parents untied to get rid of these policies?
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Why would I be up to speed on what happens in the literally thousands of different school districts across the country? Are you aware of what my school district does and has for rules? How about the school district 500 miles from whereyou live?

haymarket said:
I see no real effort to change this due to public outrage.
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Here's a lawyers site that might have some evidence for what you're looking for.
Schools rethink zero tolerance policies for juvenile offenses

Of course I'm sure you'll find something wrong with it. Either because its not exactly on topic or because its a lawyer company and not actual specific school districts or some other trumped up reason. Totally ignoring the point.

haymarket said:
That is your decision. But we cannot run a school - let alone a system if such things are more than isolated incidents. That is simply reality.
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Schools are run and should be run based on their location and demographics...not on what someone 100+ miles away thinks should be done. Which is how this whole zero tolerance policy got started in the first place.

haymarket said:
I have no idea what you mean as it is the job of local school boards to decide what is and what is not a safety issue.
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Wow...I try and thank you and you say you have no idea what I mean? Alright. Here is a direct question. Lets see if you can give a direct non-spin answer. How is a child pointing their finger and saying "bang" in a game considered dangerous and/or a safety hazard?
 
joko104 said:
Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended - ABC News

A central Ohio principal says she suspended a 10-year-old boy from school for three days for pretending his finger was a gun and pointing it at another student's head.
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The boy's father says it's the adults who are acting childish for suspending the boy from Devonshire Alternative Elementary School in Columbus last week.

I'm with the dad on this one.
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I wonder if the finger is registered.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148]

joko104 said:
Again, does anyone really still play cowboys and Indians? I suppose I would just HAVE to sue over that. "You let other kids play cowboys against my kid with finger guns? BIGOTS! RACISTS!!!!"

Sounds like old folks postings.

Actually, I wouldn't have any problem with kids playing cowboys and Indians. But I do suspect that **** would hit the fan if a school let kids play cowboys and Indians pretending to kill the Indians. How about playing Americans versus Mexicans?
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r
Old folks, you betcha. I was brought up on the 1950's westerns and even wore Davy Crockett coonskin caps to school. Wyatt Earp, the Rifleman, Danial Boone, Have Gun will Travel, The Rebel, Wanted Dead or Alive, Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Red Ryder and Little Beaver, and on and on and on.

We as kids had many battles of the Alamo over and over again. We played war all the time too. Korea had just ended. Does this make me a bigot and racist, I guess that is for others to decide. But I had a real fond childhood and wouldn't change a thing.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Kal'Stang said:
(1)And just like regular politicians they immediately try and do what they want done the moment they are elected despite anything the parents say. And not all things are put before parents.



(2)Why would I be up to speed on what happens in the literally thousands of different school districts across the country? Are you aware of what my school district does and has for rules? How about the school district 500 miles from whereyou live?



(3)Here's a lawyers site that might have some evidence for what you're looking for.
Schools rethink zero tolerance policies for juvenile offenses

Of course I'm sure you'll find something wrong with it. Either because its not exactly on topic or because its a lawyer company and not actual specific school districts or some other trumped up reason. Totally ignoring the point.



(4)Schools are run and should be run based on their location and demographics...not on what someone 100+ miles away thinks should be done. Which is how this whole zero tolerance policy got started in the first place.



(5)Wow...I try and thank you and you say you have no idea what I mean? Alright. Here is a direct question. Lets see if you can give a direct non-spin answer. How is a child pointing their finger and saying "bang" in a game considered dangerous and/or a safety hazard?
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I took the liberty of numbering your statements and reply to them with the number

(1) It sounds like you do not like the American system of representative government as your complaining is more generic about the nature of political representation that anything else. I have no doubt that some do a good job of representing the people that elect them and some do not while others vary in the middle. So what? That is the nature of the game in the USA.

(2) I simply asked you if you knew of any parental outrage against zero tolerance so we can see if this is indeed a national movement or if it just a few marginalized individuals with their own axe to grind like those here who disguise their frustration complaining about feminization of boys or gun policy or just a hankering for the good old days when you could kick somebodys ass and be done with them instead of reporting it to the proper authorities

(3) Thank you for the link. I will read your information you provided and get back with you. Promise.
EDIT - I read the article and thought there were some good points. They accept the necessity of zero tolerance for things like guns in school. I agree that some of these other lesser offenses need to be examined and periodically evaluated. I think the way to NOT do this is have little rebellions in school by kids coached by angry parents who did not get their way at the school board meeting. That is not the way to educate our kids nor run a school for the greater benefit of the entire community.

But please keep in mind what motivated these policies in the first place as I have explained several times in several posts.

(4) We disagree about who should run a school. I am a big believer in a national standard and a national curriculum and national policies like the Japanese system which has yielded such amazing results from one end of the nation to the other. But that is not the subject of this thread. The reality is that zero tolerance is adopted by states and localities and not a national authority. So you are getting the system you want but not the results you favor.

(5) Perhaps it causes trauma in the student on the other end? Perhaps it helps to work against a spirit of peace and cooperation that the school is working hard to achieve? Perhaps parents do not want their kids to be subject to this and classify it as bullying? Perhaps they take the entire episode more seriously than you seem to do?
 
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Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

the national government doesn't have the proper authority to create a national standard

sounds like a lowest common denominator system anyway
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

CRUE CAB said:
Moving the goal posts much, this is not about what a teacher tells you to do during the normal course of the day.
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The boy was caught during a science class. Aren't science classes usually taught during the normal course of the day?
 
joko104 said:
I'm with the dad on this one.
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Many guns righters want this boy to have a gun, as we've seen in television ads.
If/when the boy goes wrong, schools will be blamed, not the Father .
 
NIMBY said:
Many guns righters want this boy to have a gun, as we've seen in television ads.
If/when the boy goes wrong, schools will be blamed, not the Father .
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what are you talking about

he had a finger
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Bringing squirt guns was a rite of spring when I was a boy.
They were/are as big as semi-automatics .
Moot said:
The boy was caught during a science class. Aren't science classes usually taught during the normal course of the day?
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Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Kal'Stang said:
As a child in school I often tried to avoid fights and let my teachers know about the bullying despite my parents telling me to defend myself. However in the end the only thing that stopped the bullying was me getting into a fight. I never threw the first punch but more often than not I did finish the fight. And when I did get the crap beat out of me the person still stopped bullying me as they realized that I wasn't really a sissy. So in the end no matter the outcome of the fight it was a win/win for me until the next bully came along and the process started all over. IE I gained enough respect from them that they stopped. When all was said and done my parents were right in telling me to defend myself even to the point of getting into a fight.
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I guess I don't have much to contrast it with since I never went to school. I'm not sure you had actually earned their "respect." Rather, their view may have been that it was now established he is your superior and it could come across as whimpy if he just kept beating up the same kid.

But how can I know? The latter is more how it worked around me - the notion of matched fights to determine whose kid is superior. If it known one kid can beat the other kid up, then it wasn't really a fight. Rather it was just having one kid beat another (which wasn't uncommon either.) Again, you were there and I wasn't.

One thing, though, I do know is that "fights" can result in permanent injuries, not just black eyes and a bloody lip. So the bullies you fought probably weren't that tough or didn't really want to hurt you and it more a dominance, pecking order thing maybe. Or didn't REALLY want to fight you, just wanted to act tougher - so more of a faux bully than a real one?

But I would also wonder if your experiences are recent or many years ago? The potentials of violence in many school districts now seems to involve group/gang type violence and weapons such as knives can suddenly come into play.
 
NIMBY said:
Was I speaking to you ?
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You're posting on a public forum - you're speaking to everyone unless you use the PM function. :roll:
 
NIMBY said:
Many guns righters want this boy to have a gun, as we've seen in television ads.
If/when the boy goes wrong, schools will be blamed, not the Father .
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I don't know about that. I don't.
 
Are you another one who monitors gun forums and goes after a different viewpoint ?
Ockham said:
You're posting on a public forum - you're speaking to everyone unless you use the PM function. :roll:
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Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

TurtleDude said:
the national government doesn't have the proper authority to create a national standard

sounds like a lowest common denominator system anyway
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1- you know what my reply will be and what I will cite in the Constitution
2- I know what yours will be and what you will cite in the Constitution
3- let us simply agree to disagree and move on
 
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