Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

[US Conservative]

Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared
By ALISON SMALE and DAVID M. HERSZENHORNMARCH 1, 2014

...Russian troops stripped of identifying insignia and military vehicles bearing the black license plates of Russia’s Black Sea force swarmed the major thoroughfares of Crimea and occupied major government buildings, closing the main airport and solidifying what had been a covert effort to control the largely pro-Russian region of Ukraine. In Moscow, Mr. Putin convened the upper house of Parliament to forcefully denounce President Obama and obtain authorization to protect Russian citizens and soldiers stationed in Crimea as well as other parts of Ukraine.

Both actions, military and parliamentary, were a direct rebuff to Mr. Obama, who on Friday pointedly warned Russia to respect Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?hp&_r=0


This is what happens when the US has a weak leader the world can read like an open book-the worlds less savory cats are comfortable openly punking us. Now I know those of us on the left love this thinking its a good thing for the US to lose influence, only to be replaced by violence and less savory characters like russia.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

But obama said there would be consequences, that's some pretty tough talk. I'm sure Putin will never go up against obama.:roll:

 

[Kobie]

And more hyperpartisan garbage in response to an actual issue. Shocking.

 

[Linc]

And another thread on the Ukraine.
After Putin just got lectured for 90 minutes by the President,
Putin may be reluctant to endanger his G-8 summit in June in Sochi, a BFD for Putin.
As long as APutin does what Obama said, we'll be fine, as with Syria .

 

[MMC]

Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared
By ALISON SMALE and DAVID M. HERSZENHORNMARCH 1, 2014

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?hp&_r=0


This is what happens when the US has a weak leader the world can read like an open book-the worlds less savory cats are comfortable openly punking us. Now I know those of us on the left love this thinking its a good thing for the US to lose influence, only to be replaced by violence and less savory characters like russia.

Heya Conservative. :2wave: Yeah we got it here too.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/187296-ukrainian-crisis-2014-a.html

Of course then there isn't much room for the left to play with semantics and tangents in this one.

 

[The German]

Didn`t think that this kind of stuff would be possible in 21st century Europe.

Naiv.....

 

[MMC]

Didn`t think that this kind of stuff would be possible in 21st century Europe.

Naiv.....

Heya Gernman. :2wave: Doesn't it seem like each group of people out there.....like want their own little state to run and control for themselves and their own people. Despite belonging to larger countries.

 

[OldWorldOrder]

This is what happens when the US has a weak leader

Yeah, like Eisenhower.

 

[OldWorldOrder]

Didn`t think that this kind of stuff would be possible in 21st century Europe.

Naiv.....

Lots of Europeans thought (think?) they're living in a world beyond violence. It's part of why they look down on brutish Americans. I find their idealism charming, personally.

 

[Peter Grimm]

Lots of Europeans thought (think?) they're living in a world beyond violence. It's part of why they look down on brutish Americans. I find their idealism charming, personally.

I find your patronizing attitude funny, personally. Europe went through two world wars on their own soil, they know more about violence than Americans could ever imagine.

 

[Peter Grimm]

Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared
By ALISON SMALE and DAVID M. HERSZENHORNMARCH 1, 2014

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?hp&_r=0


This is what happens when the US has a weak leader the world can read like an open book-the worlds less savory cats are comfortable openly punking us. Now I know those of us on the left love this thinking its a good thing for the US to lose influence, only to be replaced by violence and less savory characters like russia.

They have seen that Obama doesn't have a spine, and the Russians will capitalize on it. All Obama is talking about is "economic options." That will just be laughed at in Russia. This could end up bad if we don't act and act quickly.

I think we should send troops to Western Ukraine to reinforce our allies there. Respond to their call for help. We can't show weakness by letting Russia walk in and just dominate.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

They have seen that Obama doesn't have a spine, and the Russians will capitalize on it. All Obama is talking about is "economic options." That will just be laughed at in Russia. This could end up bad if we don't act and act quickly.

I think we should send troops to Western Ukraine to reinforce our allies there. Respond to their call for help. We can't show weakness by letting Russia walk in and just dominate.

what military options do we have?

 

[Peter Grimm]

what military options do we have?

Western Ukraine have asked us to come in and help protect their borders. Send troops in as a response to that, but don't give them any orders to attack anyone.

The Russians will never attack US military troops. They'll see that we mean business and then they'll sit down and negotiate with us.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Western Ukraine have asked us to come in and help protect their borders. Send troops in as a response to that, but don't give them any orders to attack anyone.

The Russians will never attack US military troops. They'll see that we mean business and then they'll sit down and negotiate with us.

what troops? do we even have any troops in that region? Any fresh reserves?

 

[Peter Grimm]

what troops? do we even have any troops in that region? Any fresh reserves?

We sure do.

http://www.ramstein.af.mil/

Over 54,000 servicemen stationed over there.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Western Ukraine have asked us to come in and help protect their borders. Send troops in as a response to that, but don't give them any orders to attack anyone.

The Russians will never attack US military troops. They'll see that we mean business and then they'll sit down and negotiate with us.

Except Russia is fine with losing western Ukraine, eastern Ukraine has the ethnic Russian, the very important naval port, and the heavy industry. Russia would negotiate from a position of strength. Meaning Russia will accept a vote in eastern Ukraine on if it should remain part of Ukraine or separate. Using the fact that the new Ukrainian government is of course non elected and not democratic as a main point

 

[OldWorldOrder]

I find your patronizing attitude funny, personally. Europe went through two world wars on their own soil, they know more about violence than Americans could ever imagine.

Really? I've personally fought in three different wars in the last ten years, but someone in Europe knows better than me because there was a war in their hometown 70 years ago? That's cute.

 

[Peter Grimm]

Except Russia is fine with losing western Ukraine, eastern Ukraine has the ethnic Russian, the very important naval port, and the heavy industry. Russia would negotiate from a position of strength. Meaning Russia will accept a vote in eastern Ukraine on if it should remain part of Ukraine or separate. Using the fact that the new Ukrainian government is of course non elected and not democratic as a main point

Yeah, but that's an acceptable outcome. Not ideal, but acceptable. Eastern Ukraine goes to the Russians, Western Ukraine should then soon after join NATO and possibly the EU.

At the end of the day, the balance of power in Europe is maintained. Neither side comes out the loser.

 

[Peter Grimm]

Really? I've personally fought in three different wars in the last ten years, but someone in Europe knows better than me because there was a war in their hometown 70 years ago? That's cute.

You might know something about war, but that doesn't mean Americans as a whole know anything about it. Having two world wars on their home soil changed European culture and gave them a different perspective on war.

That said, I've never met an ex-soldier who was actually in combat who had the political leanings of a hawk. If you do, you would be the first. The lesson most people draw from their time in combat is that they wouldn't wish it on anyone and that it should be an absolute last resort.

Maybe it's different for Europeans as well since it was at home, many of them, including my family, saw their homes destroyed, their women and children right in the middle of the battle zone, not something you ever want to happen to you.

 

[KevinKohler]

I thought the Olympics was a time of peace, when, however temorarily, the fighting stopped for a bit?


Is this false?

 

[US Conservative]

I thought the Olympics was a time of peace, when, however temorarily, the fighting stopped for a bit?


Is this false?

Russia won the most medals, nationalism is quite high, and our president is still a chump.

 

[US Conservative]

They have seen that Obama doesn't have a spine, and the Russians will capitalize on it. All Obama is talking about is "economic options." That will just be laughed at in Russia. This could end up bad if we don't act and act quickly.

I think we should send troops to Western Ukraine to reinforce our allies there. Respond to their call for help. We can't show weakness by letting Russia walk in and just dominate.

Indeed. Putin has been punking the west for some time in order to gain popularity at home-outside of his stunts, he's actually seen as a mediocre leader-which means he will draw this out for the most gain he can get.

 

[Montecresto]

They have seen that Obama doesn't have a spine, and the Russians will capitalize on it. All Obama is talking about is "economic options." That will just be laughed at in Russia. This could end up bad if we don't act and act quickly.

I think we should send troops to Western Ukraine to reinforce our allies there. Respond to their call for help. We can't show weakness by letting Russia walk in and just dominate.

It's not showing weakness. Ukraine is a Russian border country. It makes sense that they would take the lead, as it would for European countries that border it. I wouldn't expect Russia to take the lead were the same thing to happen in Mexico.

 

[US Conservative]

It's not showing weakness. Ukraine is a Russian border country. It makes sense that they would take the lead, as it would for European countries that border it. I wouldn't expect Russia to take the lead were the same thing to happen in Mexico.

Right on cue. Glory for mother Russia eh comrade?

 

[spud_meister]

The political drama began in the morning, when the pro-Russia prime minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksyonov, declared that he had sole control over the military and the police, and appealed to Mr. Putin for Russian help in safeguarding the region. He also said a public referendum on independence would be held on March 30.

The Kremlin quickly issued a statement saying that Mr. Aksyonov’s plea “would not be ignored,” and within hours the upper chamber of Russia’s Parliament had authorized military action.

Crimea is an autonomous region within Ukraine, if they wish to seek total independence from Ukraine, then good luck to them. As long as Russian forces limit themselves to Crimea, and respect the results of the referendum, I don't have a problem with this.