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Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

I post this, not for those who are indifferent about civil liberty, but for any who might be unaware of the Church Committees report to congress in 1976. And that was then, one can only imagine now, and clearly in the end Church was more a prophet than a Paul Revere. If Americans fail to take the problem that is the NSA seriously, they won't be having anything else to take seriously.

In the need to develop a capacity to know what potential enemies are doing, the United States government has perfected a technological capability that enables us to monitor the messages that go through the air. Now, that is necessary and important to the United States as we look abroad at enemies or potential enemies. We must know, at the same time, that capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left such is the capability to monitor everything—telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter. There would be no place to hide.
If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology.
I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.[17][18][19]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Church
 
Remember that time you grossly exaggerated what that federal judge said about NSA?



Oh lol. Why did you think I was scared if you were going to react so negatively when I called you scared? You don't like it?

Not at all. Shall I post it again?
 
Oh lol. Why did you think I was scared if you were going to react so negatively when I called you scared? You don't like it?

So it's not fear that drives people to support the government knowing everything about their citizens?
 
I was unaware that standing for the rights of people meant I was scared of something. I will be sure to tell every freedom fighter throughout history they were scared.

It's just amazing that this has to be defended. But the dude worked/works for the NSA. Some people get out because they see the problem, some people enjoy it. Some people could kill you and go have a nice meal.
 
Hahaha! In your opinion it is. That doesn't make it a fact, and a great many constitutional scholars, to include federal judges, disagree with you.

It's like some of you are physically unable to understand that your opinion didn't necessarily equal a fact.

It is a FACT that the government breaks the law as it pleases. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

For example, just in the past few months James Clapper got up there in front of Congress and under oath, and lied right through is teeth. And he was not charged with perjury.

Recall that Martha Stewart went to prison for perjury.
 
So it's not fear that drives people to support the government knowing everything about their citizens?

Uhhh...knows everything about their citizens? Is that what you're calling metadata storage? loooool
 
It is a FACT that the government breaks the law as it pleases. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

For example, just in the past few months James Clapper got up there in front of Congress and under oath, and lied right through is teeth. And he was not charged with perjury.

Recall that Martha Stewart went to prison for perjury.

Was it a classified meeting?
 
Was it a classified meeting?

No, it was being filmed on CSPAN and others I presume. I saw it on TV.

WTF does that have to do with it?

He was claiming to be telling the truth but was not doing so. Anybody else doing that would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, as the prosecutors brag. :cool:
 
Uhhh...knows everything about their citizens? Is that what you're calling metadata storage? loooool

Care to tell all the information they can gather from metadata. Keep in mind I know what it is.

Also keep in mind I don't care one way or the other.
 
You are justifying the means to the ends. He badly damaged the reputation of the country, he stole secrets, he fled to two of our enemies (and yes, Russia and China don't like us). While I am in agreement the NSA stuff is bad... Two wrongs don't make a right. Think about this, he left the USA because the "Government is spying!" and he landed in China and Russia...

The irony there is palpable.

I agree. Irony isn't even a strong enough word.

Actually, in the end, he may yet have done more good than harm. We (the NSA) has been out of line because once the technology has been created, its use is irresistible.

Obama did put some restrictions on the NSA as a result. Is it true? IDK - I have to assume so until proven otherwise to remain functional. A lot of other countries are examining not only us, but their own governments as well. Hell, we're FINALLY spreading Democracy! So, we may yet come out of this a little freer and be respected for it by the same foreigners that initially we so "shocked".

We can't stop it but we need to slow it down if we can. Eventually, AI systems will hear everything you say and be able to comprehend your intentions. You think I've read too many Sci-Fi novels? Just look around you and see how technology has by its very nature eaten away the notion of privacy. The proof is already here. Maybe we'll just let it happen but at least Snowden gave us a chance to look.
 
Hahaha okay, well you don't like intelligence agencies. Cool. Unfortunately they're necessary. And he hurt the US by sharing details of them.

I don't agree we have been harmed. And I believe that Mrs. Merkel should be able to send an intimate text to her husband PRIVATELY. US foreign policy creates enemies, if not for that, we shouldn't be worried about it. And, not all spying on countries is about security.
 
'Former Congressman Ron Paul has launched a petition to attempt to garner clemency for NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. The "Demand Clemency for Edward Snowden" petition includes the clip below, Paul calls on supporters to sign the petition in an attempt to bring Snowden home to the US safely before his temporary visa in Russia expires in July.

On the heels of his son Rand Paul's lawsuit against the Obama nd the NSA seeking to stop its collection of phone metadata, Ron Paul states "Edward Snowden shocked the world when he exposed the NSA’s illegal and abusive spying program. Instead of applauding him for his bravery and patriotism, the U.S. government labels Snowden a traitor."

By signing this petition, Paul notes on his Channel's website, "you are telling the US government that Mr. Snowden deserves the right to come home without the fear of persecution or imprisonment."'

Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden | Zero Hedge

Good, he should be. In the era of fear mongering and monolithic growth of government, we need people to come forward and report on government transgression. Necessary part to keep the Republic.
 
Good, he should be. In the era of fear mongering and monolithic growth of government, we need people to come forward and report on government transgression. Necessary part to keep the Republic.

Which makes one wonder why the sentiment isn't universal.
 
The difference between a criminal and one who is not might be whether one follows the law in regards to handling issues with classified documents. If he had issue with the contents of those documents, there is a procedure to follow that would not make him a criminal. He chose instead to be one.

No there wasn't. Daniel Ellsberg sought out a way and he failed too. However, he had a great deal of liberal and Democratic support.

There also is the bizarre nature of the NYT could print what they knew was classified and claim immunity of the press (when there is no immunity to reporters concerning classified information), while pursuing Snowden. Snowden didn't publicize the material, the press did.

Moreover, since they way Snowden released it was to "report" it to the newspaper, putting him into the role of a "reporter." The government now doesn't go after the newspaper because that is a hell of a battle, so instead they just go after him because he's a little guy.

Finally, if he had exposed unconstitutional actions by the government he not only had NOT broken the law, he had complied with the law as I am confident he had taken an oath to
"protect and defend that Constitution." He took no oath to protect and defend the NSA. Also, statutory law is inferior to constitutional law. In a showdown between the Constitution and a statutory law, the Constitution always wins under rule of law.
 
'Former Congressman Ron Paul has launched a petition to attempt to garner clemency for NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. The "Demand Clemency for Edward Snowden" petition includes the clip below, Paul calls on supporters to sign the petition in an attempt to bring Snowden home to the US safely before his temporary visa in Russia expires in July.

On the heels of his son Rand Paul's lawsuit against the Obama nd the NSA seeking to stop its collection of phone metadata, Ron Paul states "Edward Snowden shocked the world when he exposed the NSA’s illegal and abusive spying program. Instead of applauding him for his bravery and patriotism, the U.S. government labels Snowden a traitor."

By signing this petition, Paul notes on his Channel's website, "you are telling the US government that Mr. Snowden deserves the right to come home without the fear of persecution or imprisonment."'

Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden | Zero Hedge

Good because Snowden informed and confirmed to us all that our government has become an authoritarian Orwellian police state.... I think that is information any informed US citizen would like to know about..

The man is a patriot.....
 
No there wasn't. Daniel Ellsberg sought out a way and he failed too. However, he had a great deal of liberal and Democratic support.

There also is the bizarre nature of the NYT could print what they knew was classified and claim immunity of the press (when there is no immunity to reporters concerning classified information), while pursuing Snowden. Snowden didn't publicize the material, the press did.

Moreover, since they way Snowden released it was to "report" it to the newspaper, putting him into the role of a "reporter." The government now doesn't go after the newspaper because that is a hell of a battle, so instead they just go after him because he's a little guy.

Finally, if he had exposed unconstitutional actions by the government he not only had NOT broken the law, he had complied with the law as I am confident he had taken an oath to
"protect and defend that Constitution." He took no oath to protect and defend the NSA. Also, statutory law is inferior to constitutional law. In a showdown between the Constitution and a statutory law, the Constitution always wins under rule of law.

Very nice!!
 
When the United States is committing treason against it's own citizens in direct violation of the Bill of Rights it IS a true patriots duty to inform the general public that our government is committing treason - and that doesn't make the messenger a tyrant either.

Manning is a different situation - he was the progressives wet dream - he exposed alleged "war crimes" which may or may have not been true, but the truth is progressives only give a **** when the US allegedly commits war crimes against another nation (which I don't agree with at all) but the second a patriot exposes the US government of committing treason against their own citizens they label him (Snowden) a tyrant...

It really goes to show the progressive mindset and how much they value their freedom.... They would rather live in Maoismville rather than have a free US - because they would love an authoritarian dictatorship here in the US -- just on THEIR terms.
 
No there wasn't. Daniel Ellsberg sought out a way and he failed too. However, he had a great deal of liberal and Democratic support.

There also is the bizarre nature of the NYT could print what they knew was classified and claim immunity of the press (when there is no immunity to reporters concerning classified information), while pursuing Snowden. Snowden didn't publicize the material, the press did.

Moreover, since they way Snowden released it was to "report" it to the newspaper, putting him into the role of a "reporter." The government now doesn't go after the newspaper because that is a hell of a battle, so instead they just go after him because he's a little guy.

Finally, if he had exposed unconstitutional actions by the government he not only had NOT broken the law, he had complied with the law as I am confident he had taken an oath to
"protect and defend that Constitution." He took no oath to protect and defend the NSA. Also, statutory law is inferior to constitutional law. In a showdown between the Constitution and a statutory law, the Constitution always wins under rule of law.

OK, this is going to be really complex and hard to understand, but try and stay with me...the laws have changed since 1971. *GASP* Who would have thought that would happen...
 
OK, this is going to be really complex and hard to understand, but try and stay with me...the laws have changed since 1971. *GASP* Who would have thought that would happen...

Well the constitution hasn't!! From the district court judge Leon,

"[T]he almost-Orwellian technology that enables the Government to store and analyze the phone metadata of every telephone user in the United States is unlike anything that could have been conceived in 1979," Leon exclaimed, calling it "the stuff of science fiction." He cited Justice Scalia's opinion in Kyllo v. United States, which held the use of a thermal imaging device, that measures heat waste emanating from a house, constitutes a "search." Justice Scalia was concerned about increasing invasions of privacy occasioned by developing technology.

Leon wrote, "I cannot imagine a more 'indiscriminate' and 'arbitrary invasion' than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-cohn/nsa-metadata-collection-f_b_4611211.html
 
Good because Snowden informed and confirmed to us all that our government has become an authoritarian Orwellian police state.... I think that is information any informed US citizen would like to know about..

The man is a patriot.....

So manning is a traitor according to conservaties, snowden is a patriot according to you.

Glad we know where YOU stand.

I'll say Manning AND Snowden are traitors.
 
No there wasn't. Daniel Ellsberg sought out a way and he failed too. However, he had a great deal of liberal and Democratic support.

There also is the bizarre nature of the NYT could print what they knew was classified and claim immunity of the press (when there is no immunity to reporters concerning classified information), while pursuing Snowden. Snowden didn't publicize the material, the press did.

Moreover, since they way Snowden released it was to "report" it to the newspaper, putting him into the role of a "reporter." The government now doesn't go after the newspaper because that is a hell of a battle, so instead they just go after him because he's a little guy.

Finally, if he had exposed unconstitutional actions by the government he not only had NOT broken the law, he had complied with the law as I am confident he had taken an oath to
"protect and defend that Constitution." He took no oath to protect and defend the NSA. Also, statutory law is inferior to constitutional law. In a showdown between the Constitution and a statutory law, the Constitution always wins under rule of law.

Very impressive.
 
So manning is a traitor according to conservaties, snowden is a patriot according to you.

Glad we know where YOU stand.

I'll say Manning AND Snowden are traitors.

I thought Nick said Snowden is a patriot!
 
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