Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

Redress said:

Ron Paul doing something stupid? How shocking...

I am not into letting probable criminals getting off without persecution. I am a law and order type.

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I am surprised of your support for Bush's Patriot Act. I'll put you into the Bush supporter column.

President Lincoln's "The truth shall set you free" is now "The truth shall cause your imprisonment" in the new hyper-paranoid Amerika.

At what point was freedom and truth replaced with protect the homeland at all costs?

Liberal ideals of civil and human rights actually is pretty much dead in this country, though people still use the word. "Liberal" now means socialism and "progressive" means corporate socialism. There is very little tolerance for true "liberalism" in the USA, nor for true conservatism, in terms of individual rights.

MMC said:

Well, seems Snowden was an enemy to his friend who he used to steal information from......causing his buddy's life to be totally destroyed too Since he discovered that Snowden his pal was using him and password to access more than what Snowden was assigned to.

How would you feel if your buddy who you worked with. Set you up to take the fall with him?

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Lies are not persuasive. He came forward specifically so no one else took the blame.

joko104 said:

I am surprised of your support for Bush's Patriot Act. I'll put you into the Bush supporter column.

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Holy ****ing stupid post. I support laws against theft, and laws against espionage. Stealing classified information and releasing it for political gain is illegal and should be illegal. My view has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, which has some good and bad.

NIMBY said:

Government has been spying on us and everyone else forever.
Good thing they were spying on Russia and Cuba when we found their nukes 90 miles from our shores.
Rand Paul wants a "new Republican party", in today's news.
DEM liberals who buy his garbage on drones, NSA, Clinton/Lewinsky are unwittingly part of this "AMASH" coalition .

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Few Democrats in DC are "liberal." Most pretend to be economic socialists, but actually are corporate socialists. However, virtually none are liberal.

Bigfoot 88 said:

True Constitutional scholars are on my side. I could understand why those who choose to be liars and subvert it while hiding behind their law degree would "disagree" with me.

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The "left" has done a 100% reversal on itself.

Daniel Elsberg was considered heroic for his illegally obtaining and releasing the Pentagon Papers about the war in Vietnam. Today, with Commandant Obama as president they would be calling for Elsberg's imprisonment as a traitor. There is no "left" in the USA in any traditional sense.

Bigfoot 88 said:

I have witnessed incredible idiocy in this thread and I am not the one stumbling.

1-I was told Turley and Hewitt believe NSA spying is Constitutional. I was not linked to either opinion.

2-When I asked for proof, I was linked to an article from Townhall attacking Snowden.

3-I was then told Turley and Hewitt write for Townhall. Ok, so what? That wasn't their article.

I still have not been linked to Turley/Hewitt's opinions on the Constitutionality of the NSA program, or Snowden for that matter.

But I did learn that they write for Townhall. Fantastic.

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Negative.....you were told that Hewitt and Turley consider Snowden a traitor. That's despite what he brought out. Yeah and when I say Townhall.....that means Conservative News Organization. That have Constitutional Attorneys on staff. Meaning they are about that Constitution. Especially Hewitt who has his Own Law School running, and who lectures across the country over that Constitution.

But since you seem to think Hewitt who broadcasted live from a radio station over Snowden and while interviewing Jake Tapper, was some sort of made up tripe. Here is some of the transcript.

Shall we start HH????? Yeah.....lets start there and His comments on How SNOWDEN returns to the US.

HH: No, he’s coming back in handcuffs, or he’s not coming back at all. That’s my view. And my question to you is, though, there’s two sides to the two elements of the story – what he actually said and the fact that you thought to use his forum to contact him. And what’s that tell journalists everywhere about when people become available online, do you think?.....snip~ (Oooopsie huh? What do you think HH means by if he don't come back in handcuffs he don't come back at all.) Need more.....Mmmmkay! :lol:

HH: Yeah, I told Biola University today they had to start teaching freshmen how to use social media effectively and responsibly, because that’s, it’s like expository writing when we were freshmen in college. Second part of the Snowden story, of course, is Snowden. I mentioned Kim Philby. All the Steelers fans out there have no idea who that is, and they think he’s probably a model. And no, Kim Philby was a traitor, and a very terribly effective traitor. Do you think Snowden at one level understands no one will, or a large majority of Americans will never buy his story as just being other than sabotage and greatly damaging to America?

HH: It’s interesting, Jake, if in the law if you do something that is going to have the inevitable consequence, you are held responsible for that, even if you are unaware of that inevitable consequence. And so it seems to me wasn’t Russia greatly aided by what he did? Wasn’t China greatly aided? Weren’t all of our adversaries greatly aided by what Edward Snowden did?

HH: So men and women in the field in the uniform of the United States are worse off for Snowden in their personal safety, are they not, than before he gave away the store?

HH: Doyle McManus, long time Washington Bureau Chief of the L.A. Times once said on this show that a story that they ran made it much more likely that terrorists would alter their practices, thereby making them harder to catch, thereby increasing their danger to the United States.

JT: What story was that?

HH: It was the banking story on how we followed money. And Doyle took a lot of heat for that. And I saw him later at a reception. He said I’ll be dining out forever on that. And the question is, we don’t have to know this for sure. You and I can’t. We don’t have the clearances. But isn’t it a rational conclusion that what he gave away greatly injured the national security interests of the United States?

HH: That is also said by, that’s also said by a lot of people outside of the government who are familiar with, perhaps have practiced in the past, the intelligence community. It’s not just the United States Government. It’s pretty much everyone who’s ever had a security clearance that I know of, isn’t it?

HH: So you won’t call him a traitor?

HH: Jake Tapper, always a pleasure to speak with you, but you’ve got to get off this anti-Pope stuff......snip~

Jake Tapper On Edward Snowden And The Pope « The Hugh Hewitt Show


Yeah they write Op Eds for many. Do you think those that listen to Hewitt Nationwide and when he appears on TV. That they have any doubt as to what he is saying and has been?

You good now on the Constitutional Attorney issue.....which really is a mute point. Considering the credentials.

RabidAlpaca said:

So let me get this straight. If your wife were cheating on you, and your best friend came to you and told you he saw her with another man, you would call him a traitor and want his head? Why would you not blame the person who actually betrayed you instead of the one that informed you of that betrayal?



Yep, now that we know the extent the NSA was spying on Americans, we are all in grave danger. That makes sense. Do you have any proof that anyone has been hurt because we know they've been intercepting our emails and phone calls? You're trying to incite a panic that isn't there.



Why don't you cite some specific cases where Americans overseas have been harmed by Snowden's leaks? I'm trying to understand your reasoning but I can't. What's it like to not give a flying rat's ass what the government does in your name? They can do whatever they want, right?



I'm glad there are some politicians out there that give a **** about the constitution and about protecting our rights. The statists in this thread are so upset that their paternalistic overlords have had their power weakened by 1%, that they're demanding blood.

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Mornin RA. :2wave: Now lets look at that a little further. Now my best friend lets me know whats up with her......then keeps letting me know who else she is with. While avoiding to come around much. Then fails to mention that he my bestest bud has already knocked boots with her. Uh oh!!!!! .....:2razz:

joko104 said:

Lies are not persuasive. He came forward specifically so no one else took the blame.

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Mornin' Glory Joko. :2wave: That's not true.....his bestest bud who allowed Snowden to use his password has had his life destroyed as well. How would you feel if your best friend borrowed your password to get into systems he wasn't assigned to and then hung you out to dry?

Redress said:

Holy ****ing stupid post. I support laws against theft, and laws against espionage. Stealing classified information and releasing it for political gain is illegal and should be illegal. My view has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, which has some good and bad.

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Releasing it for political gain? What political gain happened for Snowden in all this?

MMC said:

Mornin RA. :2wave: Now lets look at that a little further. Now my best friend lets me know whats up with her......then keeps letting me know who else she is with. While avoiding to come around much. Then fails to mention that he my bestest bud has already knocked boots with her. Uh oh!!!!! .....:2razz:

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I think you've now deviated quite a bit from the Snowden comparison. Would your best friend be arrested, tortured and denied a public trial if he came around? Unlikely.

Second, seeing as how Snowden didn't really spy on the American citizens, but rather told the American citizens that they were being spied on, so he didn't sleep with your wife in the scenario, just told you about it.

I never pegged you to be someone who wants the government to be able to do illegal things without the public knowing.

Redress said:

Holy ****ing stupid post. I support laws against theft, and laws against espionage. Stealing classified information and releasing it for political gain is illegal and should be illegal. My view has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, which has some good and bad.

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I agree with Dezaad, I have absolutely no idea how this could possibly be labeled as political gain. He went from being politically neutral to being one of the most wanted men on earth. Are you claiming he's VP in Russia right now? What kind of political gain has he gotten?

RabidAlpaca said:

I think you've now deviated quite a bit from the Snowden comparison. Would your best friend be arrested, tortured and denied a public trial if he came around? Unlikely.

Second, seeing as how Snowden didn't really spy on the American citizens, but rather told the American citizens that they were being spied on, so he didn't sleep with your wife in the scenario, just told you about it.

I never pegged you to be someone who wants the government to be able to do illegal things without the public knowing.



I agree with Dezaad, I have absolutely no idea how this could possibly be labeled as political gain. He went from being politically neutral to being one of the most wanted men on earth. Are you claiming he's VP in Russia right now? What kind of political gain has he gotten?

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I don't RA.....but it has gone beyond what he needed to do. To bring the issue out. Moreover he accessed intel he knew he did not need. Now He is trying to hit back.

Every Intel agency out there thinks he is a traitor.....as his talking to other countries and offering to go thru some things with them, shows his intentions of trying to paint us out in the limelight.

MMC said:

I don't RA.....but it has gone beyond what he needed to do. To bring the issue out. Moreover he accessed intel he knew he did not need. Now He is trying to hit back.

Every Intel agency out there thinks he is a traitor.....as his talking to other countries and offering to go thru some things with them, shows his intentions of trying to paint us out in the limelight.

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LOL. Every Intel agency thinks he's a traitor. No ****. He exposed that they were doing illegal things. Did you expect them to want to give him an award?

And trying to hit back? He's still releasing information about the government spying on US. That's not "hitting back", that's protecting the American people.

Here's a question for you:
- Is there no government action that you would consider warranting a whistle blower, or do you just think this didn't meet the threshold?

specklebang said:

You think the government is scared of us? We're just units of population to them.

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I never understood this concept. The government is made up of a much of people. The NSA employs tens of thousands of people in Maryland, San Antonio, northeast Georgia, Colorado, and Hawaii. They're not scared of "us" because they are us. And that's just the NSA, not even counting all the other agencies that are made up of, you guessed it, units of population.

RabidAlpaca said:

LOL. Every Intel agency thinks he's a traitor. No ****. He exposed that they were doing illegal things.

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But...what they were doing is legal. You just think it shouldn't be.

And he released information about the US spying on Mexican and German leaders, and attacking Chinese web servers. How is that helping American people? That's just plain old espionage.

Dezaad said:

Releasing it for political gain? What political gain happened for Snowden in all this?

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You do not understand the difference between political gain and personal gain? Really?

OldWorldOrder said:

But...what they were doing is legal. You just think it shouldn't be.

And he released information about the US spying on Mexican and German leaders, and attacking Chinese web servers. How is that helping American people? That's just plain old espionage.

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I agree, how are all of those things our government is doing helping the American people? Let's not kid ourselves, even before that people were calling for his head, yourself included.

RabidAlpaca said:

LOL. Every Intel agency thinks he's a traitor. No ****. He exposed that they were doing illegal things. Did you expect them to want to give him an award?

And trying to hit back? He's still releasing information about the government spying on US. That's not "hitting back", that's protecting the American people.

Here's a question for you:
- Is there no government action that you would consider warranting a whistle blower, or do you just think this didn't meet the threshold?

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RA he offered Brazil to help them go thru and or set up some stuff for them. That's outside of having anything to do with Americans.



Edward Snowden in running to be Glasgow University rector
Whistleblower is one of four candidates for post previously held by Mordecai Vanunu and Winnie Madikizela-Mandela



Students at Glasgow University have launched a campaign to get Edward Snowden elected as rector.

Snowden will stand against the Scottish cyclist and inventor Graeme Obree; Alan Bissett, a pro-independence writer; and the Very Rev Kelvin Holdsworth, rector of the Episcopalian Cathedral Church of St Mary the Virgin in Glasgow. Voting is due in mid-February.....snip~

Edward Snowden in running to be Glasgow University rector | World news | theguardian.com


That is not the face of someone who thought he was doing the world a favor.

RabidAlpaca said:

I agree, how is all of that helping the American people? Let's not kid ourselves, even before that people were calling for his head, yourself included.

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lol because he went to China and Russia with state secrets. It didn't take a spymaster to see what his motivation was.

MMC said:

RA he offered Brazil to help them go thru and or set up some stuff for them. That's outside of having anything to do with Americans.



Edward Snowden in running to be Glasgow University rector
Whistleblower is one of four candidates for post previously held by Mordecai Vanunu and Winnie Madikizela-Mandela

Students at Glasgow University have launched a campaign to get Edward Snowden elected as rector.

Snowden will stand against the Scottish cyclist and inventor Graeme Obree; Alan Bissett, a pro-independence writer; and the Very Rev Kelvin Holdsworth, rector of the Episcopalian Cathedral Church of St Mary the Virgin in Glasgow. Voting is due in mid-February.....snip~

Edward Snowden in running to be Glasgow University rector | World news | theguardian.com


That is not the face of someone who thought he was doing the world a favor.

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So wait, he did all of this to get a job at a college? That's your hypothesis?

You didn't answer my question. When you're ready to answer it we can continue.

Here's a question for you:
- Is there no government action that you would consider warranting a whistle blower, or do you just think this didn't meet the threshold?

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RabidAlpaca said:

So wait, he did all of this to get a job at a college? That's your hypothesis?

You didn't answer my question. When you're ready to answer it we can continue.

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No.....did I say that. I posted this piece up as he is been offered jobs and all kinds of positions.

Are you trying to say that US Personnel aren't more at risk now due to Snowden? That Russian and China did not gain anything from him?

MMC said:

No.....did I say that. I posted this piece up as he is been offered jobs and all kinds of positions.

Are you trying to say that US Personnel aren't more at risk now due to Snowden? That Russian and China did not gain anything from him?

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As I stated before, when you answer my question I'll answer yours.

Isn't it kind of pathetic I've had to ask you 3 times and you still won't answer?

It just comes down to people like Rabid not liking intelligence agencies. That's basically it.

RabidAlpaca said:

So wait, he did all of this to get a job at a college? That's your hypothesis?

You didn't answer my question. When you're ready to answer it we can continue.

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I already stated what he did to be classified as just a Whistleblower......He went above and beyond that. Do you think that means he could have went bout the issue in a different way than he did. I figured you would take that as what the answer was. Was there some confusion?

MMC said:

Screw that.....he is a traitor.

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??????