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6 Million Americans Without a Voice

Cardinal said:
Yes, in certain states.
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I suppose Illinois is one of them then.

I know in the reset of the states once their parole is up they can vote - their debt to society has been paid at that point.
 
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Cardinal said:
Here are the states that are said to prohibit voting for life after release.

Alabama
Arizona
Deleware
Florida
Iowa
Kentucky
Mississippi
Nevada
Tennessee
Virginia
Wyoming

Not an altogether surprising list.
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Yeah while the individual is on parole. Once that former inmate is off his parole he is no more or no less a citizen than you or I.

Back when I was 18-19 I got into a little trouble and had to do some prison time, but I can vote and do so in every election. Of course my troubles ended 15-16 years ago, and I haven't done anything wrong since.

Also, these voting restrictions only apply to felons (which is stupid and an entirely different discussion all together)...
 
Mr.Nick said:
Yeah while the individual is on parole. Once that former inmate is off his parole he is no more or no less a citizen than you or I.

Back when I was 18-19 I got into a little trouble and had to do some prison time, but I can vote and do so in every election. Of course my troubles ended 15-16 years ago, and I haven't done anything wrong since.

Also, these voting restrictions only apply to felons (which is stupid and an entirely different discussion all together)...
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According to that site the people in those states can't vote again...ever.

glad to hear you got yourself straightened out.
 
Cardinal said:
According to that site the people in those states can't vote again...ever.

glad to hear you got yourself straightened out.
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Well, I'm going to do some research on that later...

Also, I went to prison for a crime I didn't commit under duress..

I got caught with small amounts of pot many times, to make a long story short one of my friends at the time committed a semi-serious crime that was a felony. The DA threatened to put me in prison for 10 years on the weed or I could plead to an accessory to the crime my friend committed (which I had nothing to do with) and take 18 months - In reality the DA had no basis to claim any of that but I was a dumb naive kid and chose the 18 moths over the 10 years for being caught with a few bags of pot over the summer.

I'm not a criminal, never was a criminal and at the very worst I was a teenager that liked to get high (as if that is somehow abnormal).. I was certainly guilty of hanging out with the wrong crowed.... At any rate the kid who did commit the felony died in a car accident several years later so.... Karma.

If you want to know what the felony was? my idiot friend threw a half stick of dynamite into a toilet at a house we were partying at and caused a certain amount of damage that constituted felony charges.

So there was really nothing in my life to turn around other than to be more vigilant when choosing my friends.
 
Cardinal said:
According to that site the people in those states can't vote again...ever.

glad to hear you got yourself straightened out.
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Specifically, which states forbid a felon from ever voting again?
 
Cardinal said:
Are you kidding?
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No, which ones specifically have no way possible for an ex-felon to restore their voter eligibility?

I ask because every state on the list you provided has procedure to allow an ex-felon to renew their status.
 
Fishstyx said:
No, which ones specifically have no way possible for an ex-felon to restore their voter eligibility?

I ask because every state on the list you provided has procedure to allow an ex-felon to renew their status.
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I know, I saw that. Kentucky's is my favorite:

Kentucky - The ability to vote can be restored only when the Governor approves an application for an executive pardon from an individual convicted of a felony after completion of his/her sentence.
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I'm sure reinstating one ex-felon's voting privileges is right at the top of the governor's to-do list.

Wait, hold on, Mississippi's is even better:

To regain the ability to vote, an individual, after completion of his/her sentence, must go to his/her state representative and convince them to personally author a bill restoring the vote to that individual. Both houses of the legislature must then pass the bill. Re-enfranchisement can also be granted directly by the governor.
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Cardinal said:
I know, I saw that. Kentucky's is my favorite:



I'm sure reinstating one ex-felon's voting privileges is right at the top of the governor's to-do list.
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The governor's staff handles and it appears to be a rather routine action. Much depends on the prosecutor's opinion.
http://www.kftc.org/sites/default/f...ground_information_on_voting_rights_in_ky.pdf

Yeah, some make it hard but not impossible. Mississippi appears to be the closest to impossible. But most indicate certain violent felonies disqualify you. Most have a process to restore your voting eligibility. As a last resort....you can move to state that has no restriction.
 
Fishstyx said:
No, which ones specifically have no way possible for an ex-felon to restore their voter eligibility?

I ask because every state on the list you provided has procedure to allow an ex-felon to renew their status.
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Once their parole is up they can vote again.

They just cant vote while incarcerated or on parole.

And IMO I'm sure that is an "unwritten rule" - it's not like the DMV or voting precinct captain knows you're a felon.
 
Tigger said:
Sorry but that doesn't work for me. Never has and never will. It's totally contrary to the way I see any level of Justice in the world.
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What is unjust about the remission of a penalty by the person against whom the offense was committed?
 
Paleocon said:
What is unjust about the remission of a penalty by the person against whom the offense was committed?
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The fact that the act cannot be taken back. Seeing that there is no punishment for that act makes others more likely to follow suit.
 
Tigger said:
The fact that the act cannot be taken back. Seeing that there is no punishment for that act makes others more likely to follow suit.
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That only applies if others who would commit the offense have knowledge of the judgment of the specific person (as with legal judgments on Earth). Since the living lack knowledge of the fate of specific people, this is not a problem.
 
Paleocon said:
That only applies if others who would commit the offense have knowledge of the judgment of the specific person (as with legal judgments on Earth). Since the living lack knowledge of the fate of specific people, this is not a problem.
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Christianity, at least the Protestant religions I'm familiar with preach that any crime/sin can be forgiven on an Eternal level simply by confession and absolution. That's no way to get anyone to do what they should when simply saying " I messed up, please forgive me." erases all consequences.
 
Tigger said:
Christianity, at least the Protestant religions I'm familiar with preach that any crime/sin can be forgiven on an Eternal level simply by confession and absolution. That's no way to get anyone to do what they should when simply saying " I messed up, please forgive me." erases all consequences.
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I'm not as familiar with the Protestants, but in the Catholic concept of contrition, it is required that one be resolved that one would not commit the sin again. Also, Catholic theology states that even after a sin is forgiven, there remains temporal punishment in purgatory which justice requires must occur, unless the person obtains the remission of the temporal punishment by means of certain virtuous acts which the Church has declared indulgenced.
 
Paleocon said:
I'm not as familiar with the Protestants, but in the Catholic concept of contrition, it is required that one be resolved that one would not commit the sin again. Also, Catholic theology states that even after a sin is forgiven, there remains temporal punishment in purgatory which justice requires must occur, unless the person obtains the remission of the temporal punishment by means of certain virtuous acts which the Church has declared indulgenced.
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That's not how Protestant absolution works nor do they have anything equivalent of Purgatory. I'm no longer Christian myself and see this world much more as the middle ground between the Light and the Dark of the other side.
 
Tigger said:
That's not how Protestant absolution works nor do they have anything equivalent of Purgatory. I'm no longer Christian myself and see this world much more as the middle ground between the Light and the Dark of the other side.
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You said that before abandoning Christianity you approached ministers of several different denominations. If you don't mind my asking, were these all Protestant denominations, because most of your objections to Christianity seem to be based on Protestant theological deficiencies?
 
Paleocon said:
You said that before abandoning Christianity you approached ministers of several different denominations. If you don't mind my asking, were these all Protestant denominations, because most of your objections to Christianity seem to be based on Protestant theological deficiencies?
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No they were not. Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and many others. I grew up Lutheran so that's where most of my experience lays prior to leaving organized religion.
 
Cardinal said:
And it's unjust. It makes a mockery of no taxation without representation and the bar is set ridiculously low for for how easy it is to strip a person of their voting rights besides.
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I don't know about the bar being set low. It seems the other 90% of the population doesn't have trouble staying out of federal prison.

Like I said before. The "right" to vote is part of the social contract. You break it, you lose that right. Now we can say that maybe some felonies shouldn't be felonies and that's a fair point to be made. But if you think felons deserve all of their rights back without exception the moment they walk out of prison, then I suppose you also should add how you also think that pedophiles should be allowed to live next door to schools. Right?
 
ReformCollege said:
I don't know about the bar being set low. It seems the other 90% of the population doesn't have trouble staying out of federal prison.

Like I said before. The "right" to vote is part of the social contract. You break it, you lose that right. Now we can say that maybe some felonies shouldn't be felonies and that's a fair point to be made. But if you think felons deserve all of their rights back without exception the moment they walk out of prison, then I suppose you also should add how you also think that pedophiles should be allowed to live next door to schools. Right?
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Continue to monitor the paedophile as he has a compulsion to harm minors, but let him vote. Easy peasy.
 
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Cardinal said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/o...ans-without-a-voice.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0

It's about goddamn time that such laws that fly hilariously in the face of the spirit of the constitution are confronted at the higher levels of government. While I doubt there's currently any political momentum to create Federal laws that overturn state disenfranchisement laws, maybe this will help start the public dialogue needed to do so. Voter disenfranchisement laws are are an utter travesty.
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I've already touched base on this issue the other day... But I would love to add another story here about voting and voting rights.

Last week some group held a rally (I think it was sponsored by some black organization or the ACLU) in response to voter ID laws, and the kicker was that one of the prerequisites to get into the rally was to a) show and ID and b) have one on you at all times.

Talk about irony, stupidity or even mooting your own damn protest...
 
Cardinal said:
Continue to monitor the paedophile as he has a compulsion to harm minors, but let him vote. Easy peasy.
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Why continue to monitor them? By your logic once they have served time the government has no right to put restrictions on them of any kind. I disagree. Felons deserve to lose the right to vote for at least 5 or so years after being released, which is the status quo in the majority of states. If felons want their rights back (voting included), they should have to show they can reintegrate into society without continuing to break it's laws.

I'll repeat it again, social contract. Easy peasy.
 
ReformCollege said:
Why continue to monitor them? By your logic once they have served time the government has no right to put restrictions on them of any kind. I disagree. Felons deserve to lose the right to vote for at least 5 or so years after being released, which is the status quo in the majority of states. If felons want their rights back (voting included), they should have to show they can reintegrate into society without continuing to break it's laws.

I'll repeat it again, social contract. Easy peasy.
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Don't think you've caught me up in some contradiction here. A person who has a compulsion to harm others should be monitored, and as I asked someone earlier, what harm is an ex-felon going to carry out with regards to voting? Beat someone to death with a voting booth? Removing the right to vote for any period of time after the completion of the sentence is arbitrary at best. After all, why remove voting? Why not remove, instead, driving privileges, or the right to marry, the right to deduct expenses for taxes? The right to free speech or freedom of religion?

Why voting?
 
Mr.Nick said:
I've already touched base on this issue the other day... But I would love to add another story here about voting and voting rights.

Last week some group held a rally (I think it was sponsored by some black organization or the ACLU) in response to voter ID laws, and the kicker was that one of the prerequisites to get into the rally was to a) show and ID and b) have one on you at all times.

Talk about irony, stupidity or even mooting your own damn protest...
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Amusing on a low level, but irrelevant.
 
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