• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US looks to target American citizen with drone strike

Morality Games said:
I've never understood this objection to drone strikes on Americans who are up in arms against the United States.
Click to expand...

Americans abroad are supposed to be under our protection, and if they are suspected of committing crimes against the American people in some way then we are supposed to be bringing them back here for trial and due process. That's what extradition and extraterritorial processes are for.

Our country is abandoning justice, one strike at a time. They can kill anyone now and we are just supposed to take their word for it that the person was guilty. If they can do it to this person, they can do it to any one of us.
 
Northern Light said:
Americans abroad are supposed to be under our protection, and if they are suspected of committing crimes against the American people in some way then we are supposed to be bringing them back here for trial and due process. That's what extradition and extraterritorial processes are for.
Click to expand...

And what happens when you can't do that? Nothing? Just....do nothing?

Our country is abandoning justice, one strike at a time. They can kill anyone now and we are just supposed to take their word for it that the person was guilty. If they can do it to this person, they can do it to any one of us.
Click to expand...

Anyone can do anything to you, unless you can physically stop them, so I don't understand your point. What is "justice" in your opinion? People throw around these terms and just assume that everyone must agree with their definition of it. Silly.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
And what happens when you can't do that? Nothing? Just....do nothing?
Click to expand...

There was a time when if we wouldn't extract an American dissident to be tried at home, we would do just that: nothing. Our principles of justice mattered more than just blackbagging people. The fact that it's already a combat zone is why these principles are being disregarded, because we can get away with it. If it were a non-combat zone we would have to use the treaty system to extract suspects to be tried at home.

OldWorldOrder said:
What is "justice" in your opinion? People throw around these terms and just assume that everyone must agree with their definition of it. Silly.
Click to expand...

Justice (for American citizens) is due process as defined by the Constitution, and it's not an opinion, it's a legal and empirical fact.

When the People support or consent to these drone strikes, they are essentially saying that they trust the secret evidence our government has collected but is not disclosing, and that they trust the government to carry out a sentence without implementing any kind of trial (even in absentia).

I don't trust government to do this, mostly because it's the nature of government to expand its powers. It's our job as the People to temper statism, and to ensure the rights, freedoms, and liberties of all citizens, even ones we suspect of horrible wrong doing. Justice is supposed to be blind.
 
Northern Light said:
There was a time when if we wouldn't extract an American dissident to be tried at home, we would do just that: nothing.
Click to expand...

Okay, well now we can do something.

Our principles of justice mattered more than just blackbagging people.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe we just couldn't do it. So either our ability got better or we stopped being ******s about it. Either way, I like it.

Justice (for American citizens) is due process as defined by the Constitution, and it's not an opinion, it's a legal and empirical fact.
Click to expand...

No, it's not a fact. You just pretended your definition of justice meant that. And it's funny.

When the People support or consent to these drone strikes, they are essentially saying that they trust the secret evidence our government has collected but is not disclosing, and that they trust the government to carry out a sentence without implementing any kind of trial (even in absentia).
Click to expand...

Right. That's what your representatives are for. Information isn't just going to be released to the entirety of the world, nor should it.

I don't trust government to do this, mostly because it's the nature of government to expand its powers. It's our job as the People to temper statism, and to ensure the rights, freedoms, and liberties of all citizens, even ones we suspect of horrible wrong doing. Justice is supposed to be blind.[/QUOTE]
 
OldWorldOrder said:
err...no, I'm not? The public doesn't need to know about a great many things. That's your representatives' jobs. Write them a letter or something. Stop trying to get everything released to the general public, it's stupid and dangerous.[/

Nobodies asking for that, stop exaggerating. It's real accountability, which seems hard to come by in our government. We hear promises, as we did for example about the O administration being the most transparent, lmao.
Click to expand...
 
apdst said:
Taking up arms against the United States, in a foreign army, is in effect defecting.
Click to expand...
He's not in a foreign army,

How about you email Obama and complain?
Click to expand...
How bout you email Obama and complain about x, y, or z thing you disagree with him doing... :lamo
 
Morality Games said:
I've never understood this objection to drone strikes on Americans who are up in arms against the United States. Why should we engineer our strategy around enemy commanders and operatives just because they are also citizens?
Click to expand...

It creates a grey area that could potentially be expanded.
 
Montecresto said:
OldWorldOrder said:
err...no, I'm not? The public doesn't need to know about a great many things. That's your representatives' jobs. Write them a letter or something. Stop trying to get everything released to the general public, it's stupid and dangerous.[/

Nobodies asking for that, stop exaggerating. It's real accountability, which seems hard to come by in our government. We hear promises, as we did for example about the O administration being the most transparent, lmao.
Click to expand...

So you don't want to know, then? Good. Let's hope you don't.
Click to expand...
 
American said:
Precisely what a socialist dictatorship would do.
Click to expand...

11aeer9.jpg
 
OldWorldOrder said:
How do you enact due process with someone in a place that can't extradite him? Do you just...hope for the best?
Click to expand...

The government has ruled, in the cases of Munaf v. Geren and Kiyemba II that due process does NOT apply to transferred detainees.

In fact, according to the Nebraska Law Review, "the submission of the request for their extradition violates their rights to a speedy trial or extradition under the Sixth Amendment, and/or their right to due process under the Fifth Amendment."

So no, you don't hope for the best, if an administration official baselessly deems you a terrorist, you're ****ed and are drone target practice. Citizen or not.

TheDemSocialist said:
11aeer9.jpg
Click to expand...

Says the socialist.
 
Lachean said:
The government has ruled, in the cases of Munaf v. Geren and Kiyemba II that due process does NOT apply to transferred detainees.

In fact, according to the Nebraska Law Review, "the submission of the request for their extradition violates their rights to a speedy trial or extradition under the Sixth Amendment, and/or their right to due process under the Fifth Amendment."

So no, you don't hope for the best, if an administration official baselessly deems you a terrorist, you're ****ed and are drone target practice. Citizen or not.
Click to expand...

Oh good. Then what's the issue?
 
American said:
Go bitch to a socialist dictatorship, okay? They'll stuff you dictionary square up your ass, and throw you in a gulag for opening your trap.
Click to expand...

:lamo
Foreign policy=economic policy! :lamo :doh
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Oh good. Then what's the issue?
Click to expand...

The fact that my right to due process can be voided at some official's say so and that I could be killed along with my entire family at a wedding by my own country without due process is a major ****ing issue!

Do you not believe in innocence until proven guilty, due process or habeus corpus?
 
Lachean said:
The fact that my right to due process can be voided at some official's say so and that I could be killed along with my entire family at a wedding by my own country without due process is a major ****ing issue!
Click to expand...

How can you be killed along with your entire family at a wedding unless they're having a wedding in a country that either lacks the ability to extradite you or won't, as well as you inciting violence, as well as that nation being unable to stop the US? How can that happen without those criteria being met?

Do you not believe in innocence until proven guilty, due process or habeus corpus?
Click to expand...

No, I believe that they're a means to an end. I don't believe they're an end. Do you?
 
Lachean said:
At least you're honest, most socialists will deny it until they've gotten their way.. given that its a dirty word in US politics.
Click to expand...

Dont really think there are much socialists here in the US. Most are pretty proud to be socialists like Bernie Sanders.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Dont really think there are much socialists here in the US. Most are pretty proud to be socialists like Bernie Sanders.
Click to expand...

I do not agree that there are as few socialists as you might think, just many who are less open and proud about it, instead we have socialists who play the "I'm not a socialist but..." or "If its not full socialism its not socialism" Jon Stewart types.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom