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96 Percent of Dems Who Support Minimum Wage Hike Don’t Pay Their Interns

jamesrage said:
It is not comparing apples and oranges.Its hypocritical for people to demand a minimum wage increase when they are not even paying all their employees a wage.
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So it's OK to not pay them if you don't want to raise the minimum wage?
 
rocket88 said:
So it's OK to not pay them if you don't want to raise the minimum wage?
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It wouldn't be hypocritical. However not paying an employee money to do work is wrong regardless if you support minimum wage increase or not.
 
jamesrage said:
It wouldn't be hypocritical. However not paying an employee money to do work is wrong regardless if you support minimum wage increase or not.
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Unpaid internships are pretty common, not just in Washington either.
 
rocket88 said:
Unpaid internships are pretty common, not just in Washington either.
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Not paying a person money for services performed is wrong regardless of where and who is doing it.But the issue of the OP is the blatantly hypocrisy of individuals who want minimum wage increased when they do not even pay some of their employees a wage.
 
rocket88 said:
So if he didn't say that, then it's OK?




BTW, Bill Clinton never said "Don't diddle the interns" either.
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If he never said it he's not a hypocrite like dems are with the equal wage for women and minimum wage issues. Clinton went on TV when he was running for pres and said stuff like that was behind him as Hilary sat by his side with a big grin. That is beyond hypocrisy.
 
rocket88 said:
Unpaid internships are pretty common, not just in Washington either.
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Yep. They pretend that the value of the on the job training given exceeds the value of the work performed and the DOL appears to believe them.
 
jamesrage said:
Not paying a person money for services performed is wrong regardless of where and who is doing it.But the issue of the OP is the blatantly hypocrisy of individuals who want minimum wage increased when they do not even pay some of their employees a wage.
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I suppose, but to say that it's somehow different if you're on the other side of the issue seems disingenuous.

It's like what sawyer's trying to say "Well, David Vitter never SAID not to get a hooker." That doesn't mean it's OK for him to do so.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
If he never said it he's not a hypocrite like dems are with the equal wage for women and minimum wage issues. Clinton went on TV when he was running for pres and said stuff like that was behind him as Hilary sat by his side with a big grin. That is beyond hypocrisy.
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Find the quote where he said "You can't **** the help."

Are you seriously going to tell us that it's OK get a hooker as long as you never said not to?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep. They pretend that the value of the on the job training given exceeds the value of the work performed and the DOL appears to believe them.
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When I was in my 20s I worked for a big logging outfit in Calif that hired interns in summer. They got college credits for their forestry degree to do grunt work and supposedly learn about logging. Robinson Timber paid them, minimum wage but they were paid.
 
rocket88 said:
I suppose, but to say that it's somehow different if you're on the other side of the issue seems disingenuous.

It's like what sawyer's trying to say "Well, David Vitter never SAID not to get a hooker." That doesn't mean it's OK for him to do so.
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I am for minimum wage and increasing the minimum wage.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep. They pretend that the value of the on the job training given exceeds the value of the work performed and the DOL appears to believe them.
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Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't....:shrug.

I just think that condemning Democrats for doing it when Republicans do it too is rather silly.
 
So 96% of democrats who support raising the minimum wage have interns?

Huh.
 
jamesrage said:
I am for minimum wage and increasing the minimum wage.
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Not you personally, a person in general. Say a Republican has an unpaid intern, but is against raising the minimum wage....which I guarantee you plenty of them do.

I just don't have a huge problem necessarily with unpaid interns, and I'm certainly not going to change my opinion based on which party the boss belongs to.
 
rocket88 said:
Find the quote where he said "You can't **** the help."

Are you seriously going to tell us that it's OK get a hooker as long as you never said not to?
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He sais he would not continue his cheating ways if he were elected president. I think f***** the help falls in that category. Maybe you are to young to remember that era when he first ran for pres and the Jennifer Flowers issue surfaced.
 
rocket88 said:
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't....:shrug.

I just think that condemning Democrats for doing it when Republicans do it too is rather silly.
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So is demanding that Joe's lawn service pay their "interns" 35% more. ;)
 
soot said:
You honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

NJ state income tax on "average" Americans (the NJ tax bracket earning between $40,001 and $75,000) is 5.525%

In NC the rate on folks earning between $12,751 and $60,000 is 7%.

In AL the flat rate on anyone earning over $3000 is 5%.

In GA it's 6% on anyone earning over $7001.

In NE it's 6.84% on anyone earning over $27,001.

Yes, the tax rate in NJ increases on folks earning over $75,000 (to 6.37% for those earning between $75,001 and $500,000, and to 8.97% for those earning more than $500,001) but by and large those of us in those tax brackets can afford to live pretty well in NJ even with the extra 1% or 2% in taxation.

NJ has some of the highest (if not the highest) property taxes in the country (1.89% as a percentage of appraised home value), but not significantly higher than TX (1.81%), NE (1.70%), or ND (1.42%).

The "stuff" that makes the cost of living so high in NJ are things that have little to do with taxes. Home value and rent is a big one, NJ traditionally ranks number 1 or 2 for both of those. Food is more expensive in NJ, entertainment is more expensive, clothing is more expensive.

But, again, being among the states with the highest average income, many in NJ can easily afford these higher costs.

It only becomes a problem when your family isn't making $75,000 + a year.

Again, you don't know what you're taking about and your comments, not NJ's taxes, are what's political.
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sales taxes, property taxes, insurance taxes, me thinks someone is very naive
 
Rocketman said:
sales taxes, property taxes, insurance taxes, me thinks someone is very naive
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:roll:

Frankly, this is getting old.

I've already proven to you, with actual facts and tax rates, that taxes in NJ on average middle class residents are not significantly higher than they are on residents of a random sampling of Red states.

We can do the same for sales tax and insurance tax but it's really pointless.

ARE there a small handful of states that are better to live in than others from a tax perspective?

Sure, of course there are.

But when it comes to middle class residents NJ is no better nor any worse than a host of others.

If you have some evidence to the contrary, rather than just continuing insisting that your unsubstantiated opinion bears some weight, I'd be happy to take a look at it.
 
soot said:
:roll:

Frankly, this is getting old.

I've already proven to you, with actual facts and tax rates, that taxes in NJ on average middle class residents are not significantly higher than they are on residents of a random sampling of Red states.

We can do the same for sales tax and insurance tax but it's really pointless.

ARE there a small handful of states that are better to live in than others from a tax perspective?

Sure, of course there are.

But when it comes to middle class residents NJ is no better nor any worse than a host of others.

If you have some evidence to the contrary, rather than just continuing insisting that your unsubstantiated opinion bears some weight, I'd be happy to take a look at it.
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NY, NJ, and CA are in the top five:

States with the highest and lowest taxes


yes this is getting old providing common info over and over and over
 
Rocketman said:
NY, NJ, and CA are in the top five:

States with the highest and lowest taxes


yes this is getting old providing common info over and over and over
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This is really getting to be like talking to a wall.

I agree, and I have been agreeing all along, that NJ taxes are high on those who earn a high (by any state's standards) income.

If you earn $200,000 a year in NJ you're going to pay a lot more tax on it than you would if you earned the same in TX.

But if you are making less than $60,000 a year - i.e. you are an "average" middle class American - you're not going to pay significantly higher taxes in NJ than you would pay almost anywhere else in America.

Now...

This discussion between us started when you claimed, wrongly, that the high cost of living in NJ is a result of high taxes.

I've proven that that is patently NOT the case, and I've shown you what does result in this state's high cost of living.

If an "average" middle class person pays no more tax in NJ, in fact pays less tax in NJ than he would in AL, or NC, or GA, then NJ's tax rates CAN'T be the cause of NJ's high cost of living.

Something else has to be driving that calculation.

What is driving that calculation is the fact that so many people in NJ DO earn more money than the average.

The average income in NJ is nearly 50% greater than the national median.

As a result businesses in NJ are able to charge higher prices for any and all manner of consumer goods and services.

A middle class family earning $60,000 in NJ pays roughly the same taxes as a middle class family earning $60,000 in AL but then pays a 25% to 50% premium on consumer goods and services because merchants and service providers in NJ can afford to charge inflated prices.

Put economically, the price elasticity of demand is more inelastic in NJ - in aggregate - because the purchase of one unit of a good or service requires a lesser proportion of the average consumer's income.

The same is true in NY and CA.

Taxes on middle and low income people are no greater than they are in most other places, but greater average income results in greater price inelasticity.
 
soot said:
This is really getting to be like talking to a wall.

I agree, and I have been agreeing all along, that NJ taxes are high on those who earn a high (by any state's standards) income.

If you earn $200,000 a year in NJ you're going to pay a lot more tax on it than you would if you earned the same in TX.

But if you are making less than $60,000 a year - i.e. you are an "average" middle class American - you're not going to pay significantly higher taxes in NJ than you would pay almost anywhere else in America.

Now...

This discussion between us started when you claimed, wrongly, that the high cost of living in NJ is a result of high taxes.

I've proven that that is patently NOT the case, and I've shown you what does result in this state's high cost of living.

If an "average" middle class person pays no more tax in NJ, in fact pays less tax in NJ than he would in AL, or NC, or GA, then NJ's tax rates CAN'T be the cause of NJ's high cost of living.

Something else has to be driving that calculation.

What is driving that calculation is the fact that so many people in NJ DO earn more money than the average.

The average income in NJ is nearly 50% greater than the national median.

As a result businesses in NJ are able to charge higher prices for any and all manner of consumer goods and services.

A middle class family earning $60,000 in NJ pays roughly the same taxes as a middle class family earning $60,000 in AL but then pays a 25% to 50% premium on consumer goods and services because merchants and service providers in NJ can afford to charge inflated prices.

Put economically, the price elasticity of demand is more inelastic in NJ - in aggregate - because the purchase of one unit of a good or service requires a lesser proportion of the average consumer's income.

The same is true in NY and CA.

Taxes on middle and low income people are no greater than they are in most other places, but greater average income results in greater price inelasticity.
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yeah that's why a 1500 square foot house in NJ isn't as affordable as a 4000 square ft in Atlanta. **** the NE, you might as well be picking cotton in south
 
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