• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco[W:54]

Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Yeah. I haven't seen the death certificate, and neither have you. You don't have access to the patient's medical history, and it's likely that the medical responders didn't have it in hand at the time, either. The daughter did know it, though. It's not hard at all for me to imagine that attorneys would have been on the phone to her urging the daughter to pursue a suit which she would likely win, if there was a case.

i find medically trained personnel to have a credible argument that the traffic caused delay contributed to their patient's death
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Yeah. I haven't seen the death certificate, and neither have you. You don't have access to the patient's medical history, and it's likely that the medical responders didn't have it in hand at the time, either. The daughter did know it, though. It's not hard at all for me to imagine that attorneys would have been on the phone to her urging the daughter to pursue a suit which she would likely win, if there was a case.
Yes, medical professionals who were with her at the time don't know as much as the daughter who wasn't there. And there's still certainly time for legal options. I'm not saying whether she should sue or not, but your claim that there's no lawsuit is particularly spurious.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

i find medically trained personnel to have a credible argument that the traffic caused delay contributed to their patient's death

I find that they found her dead when they got there to be medically significant.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

I find that they found her dead when they got there to be medically significant.

So droll ... I love droll.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

I find that they found her dead when they got there to be medically significant.

The woman later died at a hospital of cardiac arrest, according to a Sept. 10 letter that EMS coordinator Paul Favia sent to the borough's mayor.

Christie bridge scandal: Woman died after traffic delayed medics - latimes.com
Are you saying saying the woman died before the paramedics arrived, got revived, and then died again at the hospital?
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

I find that they found her dead when they got there to be medically significant.
she was pronounced dead at the hospital - eventually
no way could the delay in the first responder's presence, to begin medically appropriate activities, have precipitated the death of a heart attack victim sarcasm.gif
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

A person did die because of this. ...
hey ... stay focused ... this isn't Hillary's Benghazi thread.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Yes, medical professionals who were with her at the time don't know as much as the daughter who wasn't there. And there's still certainly time for legal options. I'm not saying whether she should sue or not, but your claim that there's no lawsuit is particularly spurious.

Her heart stopped. They tried to revive her, without success. IOW, she was dead when the EMS crew got there. I didn't say there was no lawsuit. I said if there was a credible one, it would have received attention. It is therefore not spurious - just a simple recognition of the facts as they currently stand in spite of what you obviously wish would occur.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

she was pronounced dead at the hospital - eventually
no way could the delay in the first responder's presence, to begin medically appropriate activities, have precipitated the death of a heart attack victim View attachment 67160201
There's that sarcasm smilie that can be sooooo useful around here.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Her heart stopped. They tried to revive her, without success. IOW, she was dead when the EMS crew got there. I didn't say there was no lawsuit. I said if there was a credible one, it would have received attention. It is therefore not spurious - just a simple recognition of the facts as they currently stand in spite of what you obviously wish would occur.
No I don't wish for a lawsuit. However there's plenty of time for one from this particular woman. Some people are just more trigger happy when it comes to lawsuits than others...

Another headache for New Jersey's Christie: class-action lawsuit - chicagotribune.com

The woman died at the hospital. I've already provided a link. Provide a link that shows she was dead before the paramedics arrive and I don't mean citing the daughters opinion.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Are you saying saying the woman died before the paramedics arrived, got revived, and then died again at the hospital?
The second quote is not mine. They pronounced her dead at the hospital. The EMS crew attempted to start her heart. That would seem to indicate that her heart had stopped. Just a spurious wild guess, of course.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Her heart stopped. They tried to revive her, without success. IOW, she was dead when the EMS crew got there. I didn't say there was no lawsuit. I said if there was a credible one, it would have received attention. It is therefore not spurious - just a simple recognition of the facts as they currently stand in spite of what you obviously wish would occur.
emphasis added by bubba
and that sentence should actually read as follows:
IOW, she was dead when the EMS crew EVENTUALLY got there.
and according to the stories i have read, her death was not declared until after she arrived at the hospital
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

The second quote is not mine. They pronounced her dead at the hospital. The EMS crew attempted to start her heart. That would seem to indicate that her heart had stopped. Just a spurious wild guess, of course.

Still waiting for proof of what you're saying. What's the holdup?
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

The second quote is not mine. They pronounced her dead at the hospital.
The second link is not yours. It's mine with a source attached. People who wish to actually prove the things they say often use them to...prove the things they say. I'm noticing a distinct lack of sources from you. It's almost as if you're making up a bunch of crap.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

The second link is not yours. It's mine with a source attached. People who wish to actually prove the things they say often use them to...prove the things they say. I'm noticing a distinct lack of sources from you. It's almost as if you're making up a bunch of crap.

"almost" was not needed in that sentence
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

emphasis added by bubba
and that sentence should actually read as follows:
IOW, she was dead when the EMS crew EVENTUALLY got there.
and according to the stories i have read, her death was not declared until after she arrived at the hospital
You and Reinoe should know that only doctors declare death, and doctors do not make up a normal part of any EMS crew, so it stands to reason that she was declared dead at the hospital. A declaration of death is a formal event, with an attendant certificate the doctor must sign declaring the apparent cause of death unless an autopsy is requested. Florence Genova was dead before the EMS crew arrived. They attempted to revive her. She was transported to the hospital and declared dead. You guys can attempt to twist this around anyway you want, but you can't change the facts. The average response time for EMS services across the country is around 8 minutes. The EMS crew arrived in 7. They were delayed, but they still managed to arrive a full minute before the average because they were in close proximity when the call came in.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

The second link is not yours. It's mine with a source attached. People who wish to actually prove the things they say often use them to...prove the things they say. I'm noticing a distinct lack of sources from you. It's almost as if you're making up a bunch of crap.

I've read nearly everything available on the subject. Death certificates are not publicly available. Had you bothered to do the same, you would not be making the argument you are.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

"almost" was not needed in that sentence

I know but I want to make sure I'm not infracted. Better to be safe than sorry. humbolt's not worth it.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

I've read nearly everything available on the subject. Death certificates are not publicly available. Had you bothered to do the same, you would not be making the argument you are.

My argument is that people should prove the things they say. You've certainly claim to have read up on the subject so why are you so selfish as to not share with us the documents you claim to have read? tsk tsk, sharing is caring dontcha know? I look forward to reading about how the woman was dead before the paramedics arrived from a legitimate news source.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

You and Reinoe should know that only doctors declare death, and doctors do not make up a normal part of any EMS crew, so it stands to reason that she was declared dead at the hospital. A declaration of death is a formal event, with an attendant certificate the doctor must sign declaring the apparent cause of death unless an autopsy is requested. Florence Genova was dead before the EMS crew arrived. They attempted to revive her. She was transported to the hospital and declared dead. You guys can attempt to twist this around anyway you want, but you can't change the facts. The average response time for EMS services across the country is around 8 minutes. The EMS crew arrived in 7. They were delayed, but they still managed to arrive a full minute before the average because they were in close proximity when the call came in.

so, because they were delayed to the scene, due to traffic, they were too late to save her
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

My argument is that people should prove the things they say. You've certainly claim to have read up on the subject so why are you so selfish as to not share with us the documents you claim to have read? tsk tsk, sharing is caring dontcha know? I look forward to reading about how the woman was dead before the paramedics arrived from a legitimate news source.

If you will read any of the bazillion reports which describe the actions of the EMS crew you would understand that they attempted to resuscitate her because her heart had stopped. That's why she never came out of the bathroom. They're all over Google - just pick any of those that describe the EMS crew actions. There are pages and pages of them. I'm not doing your work for you since you seem to be claiming the woman had some little event that would have been reversed had the EMS crew arrived sooner. That is clearly not the case. And BTW, reviving a person who's heart has stopped beating is relatively rare - not the stuff of that which is shown on television in which a quick defib is administered and everybody is fine - just fine again and everybody returns to normal. Actually, even those few who are resuscitated rarely fully recover. Your argument is basically that Christie should be held accountable for this woman's death, and not that people should prove what they say because you could easily prove it for yourself had you bothered to read all that's available rather than those which support your argument exclusively. Mrs. Genova was dead when the EMS crew arrived. She was transported to the hospital where she was officially pronounced dead. The circumstances on the highway surrounding that are terrible, but they did not contribute to her death. She died because her heart stopped, and the EMS crew could not re-start it.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

so, because they were delayed to the scene, due to traffic, they were too late to save her
Yeah, you stick with that and continue to ignore the rather significant fact that she was dead when they got there and was likely dead even before the 911 call was made. The fact that death generally follows sudden cardiac arrest is lost in all of this because the politically insane feel there's ground to plow.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Yeah, you stick with that and continue to ignore the rather significant fact that she was dead when they got there and was likely dead even before the 911 call was made. The fact that death generally follows sudden cardiac arrest is lost in all of this because the politically insane feel there's ground to plow.
while you ignore the position of the medically trained first responders that the traffic contributed to her death
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

while you ignore the position of the medically trained first responders that the traffic contributed to her death

Oh, for heavens sake. Here, read this and ask yourself why in the hell the EMS crew was trying to revive her if she wasn't already dead:

Florence Genova Death Not From George Washington Bridge Closings: Daughter

I've already pointed out the 7 minutes is better than the national average response time. Chances are extremely slim the EMS crew would have been able to resuscitate her in any case. (You can read about SCA and the experts will tell you resuscitation is rare). They go on in the article above to point out that she couldn't be pronounced dead until they reached the hospital, which is another element some seem to think means something other than what it really does. Mrs. Genova died in her home, and from all accounts, likely would have died in her home even if an EMS crew was living there with her. Yes, the lane closures were despicable. They did not cause this woman to die.
 
Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

This is what we are learning:

Christie = asshole.
 
Back
Top Bottom