• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

RogueWarrior said:
Atheists are the least trusted group in America. Even gay people are more trusted.
They are vilified, marginalized even hated.
One does tend to get tired of the treatment.
Only since the internet can atheists find each other without the exposure to ridicule. We are finding there are more of us out there than thought possible.
Click to expand...

How does anybody know an atheist is an atheist?
 
Grant said:
Non Christians don't understand the significance of the Ten Commandments in the history of Western civilization? I think they do though given the teaching standards of today that's not a sure bet.. I also believe this is a fashion for those who are recently cause free to create one. To me, Christian or not, it is small minded, petty little people at the forefront of these debates.
Click to expand...
I don't really agree. I don't see any how the Ten Commandments had any significant to western civilization.

1). No other gods.
2). No idols
3). Don't blaspheme
4). Remember the Sabbath
5). Honor your parents
6). Don't murder
7). Don't cheat on your spouse
8). Don't steal
9). Don't purger
10). Don't lust

How do they relate to western civilization? The first three are in violation of the 1st Amendment. Four five and ten are ignored and seven is a civil matter.

That leaves you with three: don't murder, steal, or lie under oath. These are laws in every civilization that has ever lived; including every civilization we know of that predates the Ten Commandments.

So you really can't trace back any western laws or legal structure to the Ten Commandments. If you want to display something significant, use Hammurabi's Code.
 
Mithros said:
I don't really agree. I don't see any how the Ten Commandments had any significant to western civilization.

1). No other gods.
2). No idols
3). Don't blaspheme
4). Remember the Sabbath
5). Honor your parents
6). Don't murder
7). Don't cheat on your spouse
8). Don't steal
9). Don't purger
10). Don't lust

How do they relate to western civilization? The first three are in violation of the 1st Amendment. Four five and ten are ignored and seven is a civil matter.

That leaves you with three: don't murder, steal, or lie under oath. These are laws in every civilization that has ever lived; including every civilization we know of that predates the Ten Commandments.

So you really can't trace back any western laws or legal structure to the Ten Commandments. If you want to display something significant, use Hammurabi's Code.
Click to expand...

Or this as it predates Hammurabi Code of Ur-Nammu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
RogueWarrior said:
Not arguing your point, but wondering how many satanists you have met?
Click to expand...

I spent alot of time organizing events heavily connected with "alternative" living communities. So likely more than your average person. One festival I would work at had a group of about 20-30 that would come every year
 
RogueWarrior said:
So atheists are to blame for their discrimination because they speak out about their beliefs?
Click to expand...

Where did you get that?

If you are out there throwing what you are in other peoples faces, of any religion or anything else, some people are going to comment on it.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
I usually just stick my balls in the mash potatoes.
Click to expand...

Post an iphone video of that sometime , Chuck. I'm sure a lot of folks would watch. Especially the atheists. Well, except for one atheist....<-------me. I'm not into watching masochistic stuff.

Other than that...how was the holidays?
 
RogueWarrior said:
Atheists are the least trusted group in America. Even gay people are more trusted.
They are vilified, marginalized even hated.
One does tend to get tired of the treatment.
Only since the internet can atheists find each other without the exposure to ridicule. We are finding there are more of us out there than thought possible.
Click to expand...

Even Gay people, huh?

Well good that you can all gather together and do some public good. Build a hospital perhaps. Become a Missionary. There must be something you can do to gain public trust again.
 
Mithros said:
I don't really agree. I don't see any how the Ten Commandments had any significant to western civilization.

1). No other gods.
2). No idols
3). Don't blaspheme
4). Remember the Sabbath
5). Honor your parents
6). Don't murder
7). Don't cheat on your spouse
8). Don't steal
9). Don't purger
10). Don't lust

How do they relate to western civilization? The first three are in violation of the 1st Amendment. Four five and ten are ignored and seven is a civil matter.

That leaves you with three: don't murder, steal, or lie under oath. These are laws in every civilization that has ever lived; including every civilization we know of that predates the Ten Commandments.

So you really can't trace back any western laws or legal structure to the Ten Commandments. If you want to display something significant, use Hammurabi's Code.
Click to expand...

They are laws for their time. Don't follow them if you don't care to but meanwhile, in a court if law, it is a good reminder not to lie.. And the OT should not be taken alone without the NT.

Hammurabi has had a profound effect on your life or are you just blowing smoke here?
 
Grant said:
Even Gay people, huh?

Well good that you can all gather together and do some public good. Build a hospital perhaps. Become a Missionary. There must be something you can do to gain public trust again.
Click to expand...

From a post 9/11 U Minn study:

This group does not at all agree with my vision of American society...

Atheist: 39.6%
Muslims: 26.3%
Homosexuals: 22.6%
Hispanics: 20%
Conservative Christians: 13.5%
Recent Immigrants: 12.5%
Jews: 7.6%


I would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group....

Atheist: 47.6%
Muslim: 33.5%
African-American 27.2%
Asian-Americans: 18.5%
Hispanics: 18.5%
Jews: 11.8%
Conservative Christians: 6.9%
Whites: 2.3%

gallup-atheists.jpg

All this because of the mistaken belief that one cannot be moral with a god. Don't tell the Buddhists, Jainists and other religious atheists that, because they might realize they can now justify raping and pillaging!!!
 
RogueWarrior said:
How are they going to prove the 10 commandments are historical?
Click to expand...

Given the length of time that the Ten Commandments have been written down that would make it historical.

The only evidence of the existence for the commandments comes religious books.
Click to expand...

And scrolls and fragments. Some of which are very old.

The other cited documents exist.
Click to expand...

They do at that.


Loop hole creation fail.
Click to expand...

Sorta, I think that as I suggested that opens up a whole area of "documents" that would be allowed if the Legislature decides to adopt this method. The documentary of the Law of Thelma would be a complement or analogous to that the Satanic statue under current regs.

Likewise a monument for the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" would be considered a historical document though that one is a known forgery and would still be allowed since it is "historical".

I am really looking forward to the various groups that would troll if this were adopted. :2razz:
 
Grant said:
If you are going to quote me please quote me correctly. I've got no time for people who invent conversations or quotes.
Click to expand...

Huh? Are you serious? I quoted your entire post not half an inch above that statement. What I did was called paraphrasing. I summarized your inconsistent, playing-the-victim whining into a shorter statement.

For some reason you think that because you're a christian you should have special powers to erect religious monuments on government property while everyone else should be barred from doing so. There isn't a single ounce of respect for equality in your entire body.
 
RogueWarrior said:
Or this as it predates Hammurabi Code of Ur-Nammu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Yep, just less well known.

From the Code Of Ur-Nammu
1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.
28. If a man appeared as a witness, and was shown to be a perjurer, he must pay fifteen shekels of silver. (25)

There are also 3 or so laws against adultery.

And this is Ur, which pre-dates Abraham on the Biblical timeline. So after you remove the Commandments that western culture ignores (Remember the Sabbath, Honor your parents, and Don't Covet), the laws that already existed in previous nearby cultures, then all you're left with are commandments to worship the Judeo-Christian god.
 
Grant said:
They are laws for their time. Don't follow them if you don't care to but meanwhile, in a court if law, it is a good reminder not to lie.. And the OT should not be taken alone without the NT.

Hammurabi has had a profound effect on your life or are you just blowing smoke here?
Click to expand...

The point is that the Ten Commandments haven't had much of an effect on Western Civilization. Which laws or judicial philosophies originated with the ten commandments? Bans against murder, theft, lying, and adultery have existed since at least Ur (ie before Abraham on the Biblical timeline). Innocent before being proven guilty and the right to a fair trial? That's Hammurabi. A trial by 12 jurors comes from the Vikings.

The Ten Commandments ia a purely religious text. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not possible to make an intelligent argument to install the ten commandments in any public space for their historical significance. Their only significance is religious.
 
I always hear about obnoxious atheists pushing their views on others, but I rarely see it. I do however see the religious knocking on doors, talking on tv, on the radio, about how you're a bad person going to hell if you're not one of them. I also hear them complaining about how they're discriminated against, not allowed to force their views on others in school, in government, everywhere they can.

Always the victim.
 
:lamo

Oh, the humanity.




RogueWarrior said:
Atheists are the least trusted group in America. Even gay people are more trusted.
They are vilified, marginalized even hated.
One does tend to get tired of the treatment.
Only since the internet can atheists find each other without the exposure to ridicule. We are finding there are more of us out there than thought possible.
Click to expand...
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Huh? Are you serious? I quoted your entire post not half an inch above that statement. What I did was called paraphrasing. I summarized your inconsistent, playing-the-victim whining into a shorter statement.
Click to expand...

Paraphrasing??? That's not true at all. Again, quote me correctly or don't bother.
 
Mithros said:
The point is that the Ten Commandments haven't had much of an effect on Western Civilization. Which laws or judicial philosophies originated with the ten commandments? Bans against murder, theft, lying, and adultery have existed since at least Ur (ie before Abraham on the Biblical timeline). Innocent before being proven guilty and the right to a fair trial? That's Hammurabi. A trial by 12 jurors comes from the Vikings.
Click to expand...

That other groups had laws similar to the 10 Commandments is not open to dispute, nor that many writings based on Christianity have contributed to western culture and laws. The 10 Commandments serve as a reminder to the laws of man and how they are handed down over the generations, that law is something that have always binds societies together in order that we can live in peace with each other..

If the 10 Commandments are insignificant it's amazing that so many atheists claim to be offended by them.
 
Grant said:
That other groups had laws similar to the 10 Commandments is not open to dispute, nor that many writings based on Christianity have contributed to western culture and laws. The 10 Commandments serve as a reminder to the laws of man and how they are handed down over the generations, that law is something that have always binds societies together in order that we can live in peace with each other..

If the 10 Commandments are insignificant it's amazing that so many atheists claim to be offended by them.
Click to expand...

Typically an atheist will not be upset by something that is rational and justified. Many of the commandments are justifiable and rational. Many are not and many things that should be commandments (in a civilized society) are not listed, in ANY VERSION of the commandments.

Most people know the Ten Commandments — or perhaps it is better to say that they think they know the Ten Commandments. The commandments are one of those cultural products that people imagine that they understand, but in reality, they frequently can't even name all of them, let alone explain them. People who already think they know all they need are unlikely to take the time to research the subject with any great care and precision.
Click to expand...
my emphasis

  • The first problem is which version of the 10 commandments to install? Protestant (aka Greek, Anglican, and Reformed) versus catholic (aka Catholic and Lutheran) versus Jewish? They are very different. Many people seem to think that there is only 1 version of the commandments because they are illiterate biblically or their worldview is so narrow are to not recognize that other versions of the commandments might exist. GWB is a prime example of this (2000 campaign): <SPOILER and PRO TIP>There is no standard version, Georgieboy.

    “I have no problem with the Ten Commandments posted on the wall of every public place,” Bush told reporters.
    Asked if he preferred the Protestant, Catholic or Jewish version of the Commandments, which he must not have realized differ slightly from one another, Bush replied: “The standard version. Surely we can agree as a society on a version that everybody can agree to.”
    Click to expand...
  • The second problem is that many of the 10 commandments are religious in nature. This is a problem in of itself but also because of problem 1 above. Some of the differences mentioned above are in regards to these religious commandments.
  • The third problem are the omissions from the 10 commandments. There is no mention of prohibitions against slavery, rape, torture, bribery, extortion and many more things that civilized humans consider bad. If it is not prohibited it must be allowed or so many seem to think.

Any time someone chooses to place a listing of the Ten Commandments in a home, office, church, or public space, they will be making choices. They will have to choose which biblical passage to rely upon, which translation to use, and typically which shortened version to use. These are all religious, linguistic, social, cultural, and political choices.

Unfortunately, almost no one is aware of any of these factors — they see whatever listing they use as the “natural,” the “obvious,” or just the “correct” listing that requires no particular choices or input from them. This is what makes debates about the Ten Commandments so difficult. When someone is unaware of how their own background and choices have shaped their actions, it’s far more difficult to get them to make new choices and thus change. It’s also difficult to get them to understand how or why other people might have made different choices — and that those choices are just as valid or reasonable.
Click to expand...


Most of the commandment are not laws of man.
If you really need to put up a monument, how about one for the bill of rights? It seems to me that too many people (up to and including presidents, congress and the SC) are forgetting these wonderful rules.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom