• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot[W:40]

Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Well, he's not doing anything now. He didn't punt for anyone this year. So it's a question of reading a crystal ball. I'm not saying they read it wrong, but it is interesting how the most vocal gay rights advocate in the league is unemployed....

Why is that interesting? I'd see a valid point if he was a pro-bowl punter that got released. He was a 31 year old mediocre punter. While kickers can stick around longer than most other players, the ones that do are above average at what they do. Frankly, this is two sides telling their story and no way of knowing truly either way. Are the Vikings/NFL bigoted towards homosexuals? Might be. Is Kluwe just bitter about being cut and using his sexuality/support for gay marriage as the reason, masking his mediocrity? Might be. Both are certainly possible but I personally lean towards the Viking's side of the story simply looking at Kluwe's stats.

Roll through his stats. He went from a top 10 punter to the 50 percentile in his last season. Decline in performance is certainly a valid reason that someone gets released. The NFL is highly competitive. Teams will certainly risk it with a unproven rookie with promise over a veteran on the decline.

2013 NFL Player Punting Stats - National Football League - ESPN
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Usually with stuff like this (classic 'he said, she said'), the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I'm sure that it didn't help him at any rate.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

I wouldn't call him below average. He does hold most of the franchise punting records. On the other hand, punters and placekickers are the first place a team makes cuts when they want to save money, so....
He was rated something like 32 of 37 iirc.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

It looks to me like Minnesota's improved punting this year without Kluwe. Locke as a rookie was probably cheaper than keeping Kluwe as a veteran as well. I don't know for sure if it was only a football related decision I suppose, but there'd be nothing fishy about the change if this story hadn't come out.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

I responded to exactly what you said in your OP, that it's too bad he was released for "speaking his mind". There are about a thousand other reason he could have been released, but nawwwww, it has to be this.

Seeing as how he was "statistically the best kicker in Vikings history," I don't see it being performance-related.

It looks to me like Minnesota's improved punting this year without Kluwe. Locke as a rookie was probably cheaper than keeping Kluwe as a veteran as well. I don't know for sure if it was only a football related decision I suppose, but there'd be nothing fishy about the change if this story hadn't come out.

As a Vikings fan I can tell you it was pretty fishy from the start. They burned a 5th round draft pick on a punting slot when several other positions were far more pressing. (examples: Literally any offensive slot not currently occupied by someone named Adrian Peterson) Kluwe was good at what he did.
 
Last edited:
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Well, he's not doing anything now. He didn't punt for anyone this year. So it's a question of reading a crystal ball. I'm not saying they read it wrong, but it is interesting how the most vocal gay rights advocate in the league is unemployed....
Well...you know...some people get persecuted for an opinion...and some people cheer about it. That karma thing...it IS a bitch.

Dont know if he was fired for his outspoken nature or not. Guess he can always call Phil Robertson and go shoot ducks together. Im sure GLAAD and the NAACP are full on board with a league wide blacklisting for an opinion. In fact I'd say they were setting the model. IF that is the reason (and again...not because he just isnt worth the league minimum for veteran players).
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Well...you know...some people get persecuted for an opinion...and some people cheer about it. That karma thing...it IS a bitch.

Dont know if he was fired for his outspoken nature or not. Guess he can always call Phil Robertson and go shoot ducks together. Im sure GLAAD and the NAACP are full on board with a league wide blacklisting for an opinion. In fact I'd say they were setting the model. IF that is the reason (and again...not because he just isnt worth the league minimum for veteran players).

As much as I'm sure that Fox and the RW blogosphere are indignant over it. That's the funny thing about hypocrisy, it knows no ideological boundaries.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Well...you know...some people get persecuted for an opinion...and some people cheer about it. That karma thing...it IS a bitch.

Dont know if he was fired for his outspoken nature or not. Guess he can always call Phil Robertson and go shoot ducks together. Im sure GLAAD and the NAACP are full on board with a league wide blacklisting for an opinion. In fact I'd say they were setting the model. IF that is the reason (and again...not because he just isnt worth the league minimum for veteran players).

GLAAD and NAACP don't seem to have supported anything of the sort?
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

GLAAD and NAACP don't seem to have supported anything of the sort?
Really? They were not just in favor of A&E suspending a person over their beliefs and personal opinion but rather foot stomping insistent, wouldnt you say?
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

As much as I'm sure that Fox and the RW blogosphere are indignant over it. That's the funny thing about hypocrisy, it knows no ideological boundaries.
Well...just for a check in...its not like this was exactly common knowledge. But I certainly agree. Anyone that was upset over Phil Robertson being suspended should be upset over this (IF 'this' is actually 'this'. Cuz really...what we have is his belief that it MAY be, although...probably not really...but still) just as anyone that was supportive of Phil Robertson being suspended should be equally supportive of the NFL teams not hiring the guy. IF...you know...thats the reason.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

GLAAD and NAACP don't seem to have supported anything of the sort?

Damn right they have - where have you been?
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Well it's clear to me given the Te'o and Rogers fiascos (and many others, going back to reggie white at least) that, regardless of the veracity of this claim, the NFL is way too homophobic to ever support.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Seriously? That guy's account means to you that he's telling the entire unbiased truth? If you're going to paint the Vikings as a bigoted organization, that's the best you could come up with? What if his release had zero to do with his comments? Ever think of that? If you're want to draw a parallel situation, maybe it should actually be similar. He does have a persecution complex and whines a lot, so I can certainly see why you'd identify with him.

Well what's strange about it is they kept him on for so long despite speaking his mind. It's not going to help end the indisputably homophobic climate in the NFL if the few supporters are falsely claiming discrimination (or in Ayanbadejo's case, claiming then retracting). However...there is one player who is likely gay and was denied a contract for fear of the attention it would bring:

Is Kerry Rhodes An NFL Free Agent Because He's Gay? | SportsGrid

Talent like that isn't kept off rosters unless there really is discrimination going on.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

So this punter might be trying to use whatever leverage he can come up with to get back into the big bucks.

Yeah no. If you know anything about the NFL, it's a cult. There's no way you badmouth any high ups as bigots and then end up with another team, especially as an expendable special teams player. He knew very well his accusation will blow any chances he has.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Moderator's Warning:
Remember to keep things civil or you will be removed from the thread.
 
Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Well what's strange about it is they kept him on for so long despite speaking his mind. It's not going to help end the indisputably homophobic climate in the NFL if the few supporters are falsely claiming discrimination (or in Ayanbadejo's case, claiming then retracting). However...there is one player who is likely gay and was denied a contract for fear of the attention it would bring:

Is Kerry Rhodes An NFL Free Agent Because He's Gay? | SportsGrid

Talent like that isn't kept off rosters unless there really is discrimination going on.

I thought about this story, but I couldn't remember Kerry Rhodes' name. Another player who's not a superstar, but definitely a decent player that you'd think someone could use at least as a backup. At Rhodes' position (Defensive Back), so many teams could use a little help.
 
His firing seemed justified to me. Like it or not him being outspoken could affect the financial well being of the franchise.

Tim tebow would be fired for the same exact reason, but I think his views probably add fans so there is no reason to.

Such is the plight of being in the public eye. Increased scrutiny.
 
His firing seemed justified to me. Like it or not him being outspoken could affect the financial well being of the franchise.

Tim tebow would be fired for the same exact reason, but I think his views probably add fans so there is no reason to.

Such is the plight of being in the public eye. Increased scrutiny.

If there was one player that was ever going to make me a Vikings fan, it was Chris Kluwe. That's after living in Minnesota for 14 1/2 years.
 
If there was one player that was ever going to make me a Vikings fan, it was Chris Kluwe. That's after living in Minnesota for 14 1/2 years.

Ive never heard of a punter really influencing a fan base one way or the other. I doubt his comments really mattered to anyone. Most punter careers are pretty short. Its a very expendable position same as anyone else on special teams. The fact is the guy who replaced him was just as effective, actually very slightly better, than Kluwe and for less money and less disruption. Jeff Locke (his replacement) was paid $400,000. Kluwe was 1.6 mil.

Pelissero: Vikings' league-low payroll won't become part of a trend | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings
Minnesota Vikings Salaries | NFL Football Salaries and Payrolls | FOX Sports on MSN
 
If there was one player that was ever going to make me a Vikings fan, it was Chris Kluwe. That's after living in Minnesota for 14 1/2 years.

Ive never heard of a punter really influencing a fan base one way or the other. I doubt his comments really mattered to anyone. Most punter careers are pretty short. Its a very expendable position same as anyone else on special teams. The fact is the guy who replaced him was just as effective, actually very slightly better, than Kluwe and for less money and less disruption. Jeff Locke (his replacement) was paid $400,000. Kluwe was 1.6 mil and at his peak 5 mil.

Pelissero: Vikings' league-low payroll won't become part of a trend | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings
Minnesota Vikings Salaries | NFL Football Salaries and Payrolls | FOX Sports on MSN
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mu....average.salaries.by.position/content.10.html
 
I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Chris Kluwe writes about his advocacy for SSM, how he believes it led to him losing his job as Vikings Punter, and how it may keep him from ever playing in the NFL again.

Question:

Do you feel the same way about Chris Kluwe as about Phil Robertson? If not, why not? Is Chris Kluwe an "American Hero" as Phil Robertson has been referred to?

My opinion - The Vikings had every right to release him for whatever reason. It is too bad that this would happen for him speaking his mind, especially after the team owner told him to "keep it up."

Oh boy, sports and the NFL combine. My opinion? You're foolishly just assuming Kluwe's side of the story is absolutely true.

It's unquestionable that Phil Robertson was suspended due to his statements in the interview. A&E pretty much admitted that it was due to that backlash, and there was little other reason to believe it to be the case.

The same cannot be said for old Chris Warcraft. There is nothing but speculation on his part to suggest that it was his statements and actions OFF the field that got him released. Quite to the contrary, there’s compelling evidence to suggest that there were legitimate and obvious FOOTBALL reasons to cut him.

Kluwe had an inconsistent 2012, having one two game stretch where 8 of his 13 punts were under 40 yards including one 20 yarder (Source). Kluwe was 24th in Punting Average, 18th in Net Average, and 31st in the league for punts inside the 20 yard line ((Source). Those aren’t good numbers for a punter.

Then you add his contract situation on top of his inconsistent and middling play. 2013 would’ve been the final year of a 6 year contract and would’ve cost them $1.45 million against their cap (Source). By cutting Kluwe and going with a young punter, they saved $1 million on their cap number AND have their punter locked up for the next 3 years at cap numbers lower than the veteran minimum they would, at best, have to pay Kluwe (Source).

Finally, moving away from the cold hard facts of his stats and his contract, let’s peak at two more subjective pieces of supporting fact. The Vikings did the same thing to their field goal kicker, who isn’t an outspoken activist, the year before. Veteran Ryan Longwell had a middle of the pack year in 2011, similar to what Kluwe had in 2012. He also was coming up towards the end of his contract. The Vikings decided to go younger, releasing Longwell and going with a young rookie kicker. Sound familiar? It should, it’s the same general script that happened with Kluwe. Additionally, after getting released by the Vikings Kluwe joined on with the Raiders at a lower salary. Did he make that team? No, he got beat out by a young punter.

UNLIKE Phil Robertson, there is clear and substantial evidence to show that Kluwe had his job terminated NOT because of his statements and speech, but rather because of his performance on the job. So the sad attempt to actually connect the two of them doesn’t just look desperate, it looks foolish.

Now, IF the Vikings released him because of his views, which I don’t believe…then that’s their prerogative just as I felt it was A&E’s prerogative. I’d think it’d be dumb to do JUST for that, as I did with A&E. However, I don’t believe that to be the case. What I think is more likely is that the fact he was causing a distraction that was the issue.

Football teams don’t like distractions. Case in point…you have a 2 time NCAA championship winning, Heisman trophy winning, QB with a playoff victory in his pocket over Ben Roethlisberger and the respected Pittsburgh Steelers, whose only 26 and who can’t even get onto a team as the 3rd string QB. Why can Tim Tebow not get a job? Because of the distraction his presence causes. Note, unlike Kluwe, this wouldn’t even necessarily be due to things he’s actively DOING or SAYING currently…but simply because the media and his fans are so worked up over him that they cause the distraction.

Distractions are disliked in the NFL. If Kluwe was making noise and gaining national attention by being massively Pro-Gun, or by saying the POTUS is a muslim, or something like that then I think the Vikings, IF the distraction played into it, would’ve been just as likely to get rid of himas they would’ve because of his gay views. Because it’s not about his views, it’s about the distraction.

However, I think first and foremost…as illustrated by the facts I showed above…I believe this was a football decision. Was it a football decision made easier because it also got rid of a distraction? Quite likely. But there’s plenty of facts to support that Kluwe was released because of FOOTBALL issues. There’s next to no facts, other than Kluwe’s opinions and statements, to indicate he was fired for his beliefs.

I like Kluwe, at times I find him entertaining, hell I had friends who ran Raids with him years ago.....but he's ridiculously wrong here.
 
Last edited:
Ive never heard of a punter really influencing a fan base one way or the other. I doubt his comments really mattered to anyone. Most punter careers are pretty short. Its a very expendable position same as anyone else on special teams. The fact is the guy who replaced him was just as effective, actually very slightly better, than Kluwe and for less money and less disruption. Jeff Locke (his replacement) was paid $400,000. Kluwe was 1.6 mil.

Pelissero: Vikings' league-low payroll won't become part of a trend | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings
Minnesota Vikings Salaries | NFL Football Salaries and Payrolls | FOX Sports on MSN

I liked him because he is articulate, has a wicked sense of humor, and is a musician on the side.
 
His firing seemed justified to me. Like it or not him being outspoken could affect the financial well being of the franchise.

Tim tebow would be fired for the same exact reason, but I think his views probably add fans so there is no reason to.

Such is the plight of being in the public eye. Increased scrutiny.

That's why I call bunk. If we were talking about a franchise QB or 2,000 yard rusher taking this stance, it'd hold merit. The vomit of some random mediocre special teams guy won't make any radar screens.

That's why Jason Collins coming out meant nothing. He's a scrub. He can't find work now, and that has absolutely nothing to do with being gay. He was a sub-par center. When Carmelo Anthony comes out and admits to loving ****, then we'll have a shake-up.
 
That's why I call bunk. If we were talking about a franchise QB or 2,000 yard rusher taking this stance, it'd hold merit. The vomit of some random mediocre special teams guy won't make any radar screens.

That's why Jason Collins coming out meant nothing. He's a scrub. He can't find work now, and that has absolutely nothing to do with being gay. He was a sub-par center. When Carmelo Anthony comes out and admits to loving ****, then we'll have a shake-up.

You mean loving tight ends?
 
Back
Top Bottom