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10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability....[W:87:173]

Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

How does that prove fraud? Or are you against supporting those on disability all together?
That in and of itself does not prove fraud...it proves incentive. FRAUD is proved by actually doing studies and research. Like...this one..

The report found that over the past six years, Conn allegedly paid five doctors almost $2 million to provide favorable disability opinions for his claimants.

In 2010, the last year for which records are available, Daugherty approved 1375 disability cases prepared by Conn's office and denied only 4 of them - an approval rate that other administrative law judges have described as nearly impossible.

The report found, "Judge Daugherty telephoned the Conn law firm each month and identified a list of Mr. Conn’s disability claimants to whom the judge planned to award benefits. Judge Daugherty also indicated, for each listed claimant, whether he needed a “physical” or “mental” opinion from a medical professional indicating the claimant was disabled."

Coburn's report found that, "over a four-year period from 2006 to 2010, the Social Security Administration paid Mr. Conn over $4.5 million in attorney fees." And that, "Mr. Conn was the third highest paid disability law firm in the country due to its receipt of over $3.9 million in attorney fees from the Social Security Administration."

Again...thats just one small area.

Heres the thing. We can all agree that there is a NEED for disability programs. What I dont understand is why people like yourself are so desperate to defend all at all costs instead of being downright pissed off that people ARE committing fraud and taking resources from those truly in need. I dont get why you dont join the voices in DEMANDING better investigations and more careful research and tracking. It just makes no sense.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

10 million people taking free checks from Uncle Sam is a significant portion, regardless of what % of the population it is. Also the disability rolls have been increasing as a % of the population for some time now, suggesting that more then just population growth is at play here.

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/disability-slide-1.jpg

Compared to the waste that is DoD, it's couch cushion change. And since you seem to think that a god portion of people on disability commit fraud, I'd like some proof.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

(CNSNews.com) - The total number of people in the United States now receiving federal disability benefits hit a record 10,988,269 in December, up from the previous record of 10,982,920 set in November, according to newly released data from the Social Security Administration.

The average monthly benefit paid to a disabled worker also hit a record of $1,146.43 in December, up from a previous high of $1,130.34 in December of last year.

Spouses of disabled workers also got a record average monthly benefit of $308.13 in December, up from a previous high of $304.31 in August. Children of disabled workers also received a record average monthly benefit of $341.42 in December, up from a previous high of $337.13 in May.

As CNSNews.com reported earlier this month, the number of Americans getting disability benefits now exceeds the entire population of Greece, which is 10,772,967, according to the CIA World Factbook.

10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Monthly Benefits | CNS News
As with any benefit some do abuse the system. This would be one of the current federal programs I would like to see moved to state control.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Seriously, is that all you got?
Thats ONE small sampling of a study. There is more. But would it matter? If the finger of God came down from on high and pointed to every single fraud case would you still blindly defend it? What are you actually invested in?

Heres the ironic part...I dont know what you do for a living but I actually WORK with this population on a pretty regular basis. I work with Soldiers and spouses getting people entered into special needs programs and arrange for disability with the government. I work with the direct population coordinating follow on care or trying find secure housing for them during crisis calls. I work with the county relief organizations. I would guess I am at LEAST as invested in the success of disability programs as you are...maybe more so. But all you can see is "dont touch mah baby!!! Dont threaten disability!!!" not "Hey...asshole...stop abusing the system...there are people that NEED that program".
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Heres the thing. We can all agree that there is a NEED for disability programs.

I'm not sure of that, Vance. Seems to me some what it done away with.

What I dont understand is why people like yourself are so desperate to defend all at all costs instead of being downright pissed off that people ARE committing fraud and taking resources from those truly in need. I dont get why you dont join the voices in DEMANDING better investigations and more careful research and tracking. It just makes no sense.

Desperate to defend is a pretty strong statement and pretty much off the mark. Just like anyone else, I deplore fraud and people who take advantage. And like any budget, there will be waste. In the case of those collecting disability payments (3% of the population) there are some that do indeed cheat the system. And, like I wrote before... so what? Sure, it sucks. But the % is small and insignificant in the whole grand scheme of things, and that investing it would cost the taxpayers even more. So that is basically my point.

Now, if one is concerned by government waste and spending, then one can make great strides by going after the corruption and waste at DoD. Read the Reuters article I linked earlier. We're talking billions upon billions flushed down the drain. Amazing that those who regularly show concern about government waste and spending have never mentioned this. Why is that?
 
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Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

10 million people taking free checks from Uncle Sam is a significant portion, regardless of what % of the population it is. Also the disability rolls have been increasing as a % of the population for some time now, suggesting that more then just population growth is at play here.

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/disability-slide-1.jpg

Something like 70% of them are disabled by headaches or back pain. I hate to say fraud, but, yeah, fraud.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Thats ONE small sampling of a study. There is more. But would it matter? If the finger of God came down from on high and pointed to every single fraud case would you still blindly defend it? What are you actually invested in?

Heres the ironic part...I dont know what you do for a living but I actually WORK with this population on a pretty regular basis. I work with Soldiers and spouses getting people entered into special needs programs and arrange for disability with the government. I work with the direct population coordinating follow on care or trying find secure housing for them during crisis calls. I work with the county relief organizations. I would guess I am at LEAST as invested in the success of disability programs as you are...maybe more so. But all you can see is "dont touch mah baby!!! Dont threaten disability!!!" not "Hey...asshole...stop abusing the system...there are people that NEED that program".

So you allege that the people you mostly deal with (for work) want to commit fraud? Do commit fraud?
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Something like 70% of them are disabled by headaches or back pain. I hate to say fraud, but, yeah, fraud.

Wow, well you got me convinced, Dr. LowDown!
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

So you allege that the people you mostly deal with (for work) want to commit fraud? Do commit fraud?
Good lord. Can you BE more pathetic (dont answer that)? I hate to sound trite...but really...is THAT the best you can do? I wouldnt assist someone on a false claim for disability. What we KNOW and is proven daily by both state investigations and investigations done by the Soc Sec Admin is that fraud is very real, it is a very real and significant problem, and addressing it will not only discourage people from attempting to commit fraud but will also free up needed resources. This is like everything else...if there was unified front AGAINST fraud we would probably have to commit less support dollars towards the investigation or and punishment of fraud.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

fraud is very real, it is a very real and significant problem

I keep reading this, yet no one has managed to prove anything close.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

I'm not sure of that, Vance. Seems to me some what it done away with.



Desperate to defend is a pretty strong statement and pretty much off the mark. Just like anyone else, I deplore fraud and people who take advantage. And like any budget, there will be waste. In the case of those collecting disability payments (3% of the population) there are some that do indeed cheat the system. And, like I wrote before... so what? Sure, it sucks. But the % is small and insignificant in the whole grand scheme of things, and that investing it would cost the taxpayers even more. So that is basically my point.

Now, if one is concerned by government waste and spending, then one can make great strides by going after the corruption and waste at DoD. Read the Reuters article I linked earlier. We're talking billions upon billions flushed down the drain. Amazing that those who regularly show concern about government waste and spending have never mentioned this. Why is that?
And as a nation we should be concerned with fraud in the DOD as well. That does not in any way shape or form mitigate or cancel out the very real instances of fraud occurring in the assistance/disability realm. In that one case cited in Ky, do you have any idea what can be done with 6-7 million dollars? At a HIGH end, thats 10 fully renovated 20 bed womens shelters. 4 with construction from ground up. At 900k for a 50 bed facility, thats 400 beds with support annually. About 150 special needs beds. And thats ONE case in a fairly rural area. The Long Island RR scandal involved 833 people. Still unraveling the amounts.

You want to bang that drum for change in the DOD...hell yes...right there with you. That doesnt excuse this. You want to PROTECT those programs you have to be more vigilant with them.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

I keep reading this, yet no one has managed to prove anything close.
In order for you to have something proven you must first be willing to open your eyes. One case in small town Kentucky. Long Island Rail Road. Widespread fraud found in San Diego. Billions in social security fraud...hell gangs and drug cartels have even gotten into the mix in Florida...its easy money. The 60 minutes investigation. Examples cited ON the SSA websites. Numerous cases of Lawfirms collecting millions getting people that have no business being on disability into the system (so much so that the SSA is now having to change its business practices)...

There are countless examples...and all you have to do is care enough to see them. Or...not...
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Wow, just wow, I knew the radical left doesn't care about anyone but themselves but just wow. Sickening.

...because disability benefits don't count?
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Thats ONE small sampling of a study. There is more. But would it matter? If the finger of God came down from on high and pointed to every single fraud case would you still blindly defend it? What are you actually invested in?

Heres the ironic part...I dont know what you do for a living but I actually WORK with this population on a pretty regular basis. I work with Soldiers and spouses getting people entered into special needs programs and arrange for disability with the government. I work with the direct population coordinating follow on care or trying find secure housing for them during crisis calls. I work with the county relief organizations. I would guess I am at LEAST as invested in the success of disability programs as you are...maybe more so. But all you can see is "dont touch mah baby!!! Dont threaten disability!!!" not "Hey...asshole...stop abusing the system...there are people that NEED that program".

Well then when you come across fraud, I suggest you report it. I sure would. Literally nobody is arguing "don't punish fraud."
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Compared to the waste that is DoD, it's couch cushion change. And since you seem to think that a god portion of people on disability commit fraud, I'd like some proof.

What else do you say when something like 70% of people are on that list due to back pain or headaches?

And this thread isn't about the DoD. You can go whine about the DoD in another thread.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Well then when you come across fraud, I suggest you report it. I sure would. Literally nobody is arguing "don't punish fraud."
We have...I am pretty sure I mentioned that earlier.

Literally...at least two of you are very much unconcerned about fraud. Which is ironic considering fraud threatens the support of people that some folk allege to 'care' so much about.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

We have...I am pretty sure I mentioned that earlier.

Literally...at least two of you are very much unconcerned about fraud. Which is ironic considering fraud threatens the support of people that some folk allege to 'care' so much about.

No, at least two people aren't showing some arbitrary level of concern that meets your unspecified desire. What do you want them to say, exactly? "Fraud bad?" Yes, it is.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

I would love to see some facts that prove Obama and his ilk are responsible for the increase of Americans on disability.


so as the country continually increases debt and more and more people are sitting at home collecting the free check, pat yourself on the back if you voted for Obama and his ilk when the country fails completely
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

No, at least two people aren't showing some arbitrary level of concern that meets your unspecified desire. What do you want them to say, exactly? "Fraud bad?" Yes, it is.

Fraud threatens the security of vital programs. It doesnt matter if it is disability programs for truly disabled, food stamp programs for truly needy individuals, or any other social service program. And rather than kneejerk jump to defend and ignore the fraud...which happens here regularly, I would think you would be more invested in securing a program and services for those that actually need it.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

Fraud threatens the security of vital programs. It doesnt matter if it is disability programs for truly disabled, food stamp programs for truly needy individuals, or any other social service program. And rather than kneejerk jump to defend and ignore the fraud...which happens here regularly, I would think you would be more invested in securing a program and services for those that actually need it.
What makes you think I'm not?
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

You write this and then expect serious answers to your questions. Guess what I think of you and your questions: "So What"

Ignored.


 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

I would love to see some facts that prove Obama and his ilk are responsible for the increase of Americans on disability.

Thats what I am wondering too. What did the Obama Administration do to increase the number of Americans on disability? Did Obama make people get into serious accidents? Did he make people spend decades of their lives not taking care of themselves, not eating right, not exercising and thus ending up with heart failure or adult onset diabetes? Did he give people cancer and thus land them on disability when they were too sick to work?

With all this outrage surely they can point to some policy by the current admin that lead to this. I would wager that the majority of people on disability are in red states. In fact, of the top 5 states for people on disability, they are all southern red states:

5 states with the most people on disability- MSN Money
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

You think everyone collecting disability should be cut off?

No, just 3%.
 
Re: 10,988,269: 2013 Closes With Record Number on Disability Getting Highest-Ever Mon

And as a nation we should be concerned with fraud in the DOD as well. That does not in any way shape or form mitigate or cancel out the very real instances of fraud occurring in the assistance/disability realm. In that one case cited in Ky, do you have any idea what can be done with 6-7 million dollars? At a HIGH end, thats 10 fully renovated 20 bed womens shelters. 4 with construction from ground up. At 900k for a 50 bed facility, thats 400 beds with support annually. About 150 special needs beds. And thats ONE case in a fairly rural area. The Long Island RR scandal involved 833 people. Still unraveling the amounts.

You want to bang that drum for change in the DOD...hell yes...right there with you. That doesnt excuse this. You want to PROTECT those programs you have to be more vigilant with them.

I agree with you about the fraud, in all programs, but to mitigate that fraud we would need more government spending to catch the fraud. I don't see either side really pushing for that solution.
 
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