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China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

Let's see...the Pentagon says they have 'serious concerns' about China's growing military threat. Gee, I wonder why they would do that? Two possible reasons come to mind. Anywhere -anywhere - do these experts say that China constitutes a serious threat to the United States? Perhaps you could link me to something that says that.

This is all very reminiscent of the 'missile gap' of the late 50's and early '60's, that turned out not to exist at all.
 
who says there will be any fight?

socialist_states_of_america.jpg
 
Wiggen said:
Let's see...the Pentagon says they have 'serious concerns' about China's growing military threat. Gee, I wonder why they would do that? Two possible reasons come to mind. Anywhere -anywhere - do these experts say that China constitutes a serious threat to the United States? Perhaps you could link me to something that says that.

This is all very reminiscent of the 'missile gap' of the late 50's and early '60's, that turned out not to exist at all.
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I suppose that you think that the Pentagons report to congress this year was to inform them that China has become a serious threat to Bangladesh! It's the Pentagons report to the "US Congress".

Yes there are plenty of experts that are expressing their concerns that the Chinese are preparing themselves to challenge the US certainly within their own region in the immediate future and beyond going forward. For two decades they have had double digit growth to their annual military budget. The US hasn't done that since WW2.

After two decades of massive military spending to modernize its armed forces, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars, China increasingly has the ability to challenge the United States in its region, if not yet outside it. - See more at: Think Again: China's Military
 
China's growing military might: top 4 concerns for the Pentagon
China continues to increase spending to grow its already considerable military, and top Pentagon officials continue to watch the developments carefully.
In a report issued this week, the Department of Defense for the first time directly accused China’s military of using cyberattacks to spy on US networks.
In this arena and others, “China’s military buildup shows no signs of slowing,” said David Helvey, deputy assistant secretary of Defense for East Asia, who presented the congressionally mandated report on the state of China’s military activities.
Here are Pentagon officials’ top four concerns as they carefully monitor the growth of China’s military.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Milita...-cyberwarfare-attacks-other-espionage-efforts
 
joko104 said:
China puts satellites in space and bought our IBM's computer division years ago. Just because they send cheap crap to the USA doesn't mean that is all they can manufacture. It just means they realize that most Americans are stupid consumers.
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You see a lot of IBM computers around these days?
 
It appears some people think China's military has made giant leaps for mankind, while the US military has been sitting on its hands doing nothing much since WWII.
 
What's this "2020" nonsense? China could whip the U.S. now, anytime, anywhere.
 
Mosby said:
What's this "2020" nonsense? China could whip the U.S. now, anytime, anywhere.
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Strange how military analysts don't share that particular point of view. Makes you wonder doesn't it?
 
American said:
It appears some people think China's military has made giant leaps for mankind, while the US military has been sitting on its hands doing nothing much since WWII.
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I missed those posts. Can you point them out?
 
a351 said:
Experts on the subject of military capability believe the US to still be the world's preeminent force, not China.
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Oh, we'll yeah, I haven't seen that disputed. But what is relevant to this op is that China is narrowing that cushion at an alarming rate, causing serious concerns to the Pentagon, and other experts and analysts, as posted all over this and other threads here discussing this topic. While the US military has seen cuts, China has had double digit growth annually for two decades and will soon approach 200 billion dollars. The Pentagon and think tanks, analysts and other experts consider this a threat and do not dismiss it out of hand as you have seen so many armchair generals here do so.
 
Does everyone really still think that the f22 and JSF program are our top tier weapons?

You all realize we released the F117 and B2 in '91, and had been using the platform since the late 70s....

We are in actuality 20 years ahead of everything you see, at the VERY least. Not a single one of us really knows what we have, but use your imagination. We are a nightmare on a good day, to the likes of which the world has never, nor will ever see. We are super secretive. No question about it. The next generation of weapons, clearly the world is not ready to see.

What we see now is old news. China is struggling to keep up with the f35, meanwhile we are R&Ding tech that is 50 years ahead of that as we speak.
 
Montecresto said:
I missed those posts. Can you point them out?
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Don't lie about the impression you've been trying to give in this thread. You must be in love with China.
 
American said:
Don't lie about the impression you've been trying to give in this thread. You must be in love with China.
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I must be in love with China because I point out that the Pentagon has "serious concerns" about their rapidly developing military? So then the Pentagon must be completely infatuated with China. Say American, sense YOU have such a grip on the realities and capabilities of the Chinese military (even the Pentagon concedes that Chinas "White Paper" is not 100% forth coming) why don't you dissect and refute the Pentagons report to Congress?

And then find those posts in which we will see "some people" expressing that China's military has made "giant leaps for mankind"
 
MichaelJR said:
Does everyone really still think that the f22 and JSF program are our top tier weapons?

You all realize we released the F117 and B2 in '91, and had been using the platform since the late 70s....

We are in actuality 20 years ahead of everything you see, at the VERY least. Not a single one of us really knows what we have, but use your imagination. We are a nightmare on a good day, to the likes of which the world has never, nor will ever see. We are super secretive. No question about it. The next generation of weapons, clearly the world is not ready to see.

What we see now is old news. China is struggling to keep up with the f35, meanwhile we are R&Ding tech that is 50 years ahead of that as we speak.
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If by everyone you mean members of the select intelligence committee, analytical bodies such as the CFR and the Pentagon themselves, then yea, I suppose so.
 
Montecresto said:
I must be in love with China because I point out that the Pentagon has "serious concerns" about their rapidly developing military? So then the Pentagon must be completely infatuated with China. Say American, sense YOU have such a grip on the realities and capabilities of the Chinese military (even the Pentagon concedes that Chinas "White Paper" is not 100% forth coming) why don't you dissect and refute the Pentagons report to Congress?

And then find those posts in which we will see "some people" expressing that China's military has made "giant leaps for mankind"
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Oh they wouldn't be concerned because they want to fund some projects would they? Double-digit funding by China, and we haven't done that since WWII. China has a long ways to go before they spend at our level. I don't need to find anything, you wrote them. You're building up China to be some awe inspiring super power. Well they better get to work, because they are new money on the block. They are good and getting there, but they have plenty to do. And btw, we can shoot down satellites too............a long time ago.
 
American said:
Oh they wouldn't be concerned because they want to fund some projects would they? Double-digit funding by China, and we haven't done that since WWII. China has a long ways to go before they spend at our level. I don't need to find anything, you wrote them. You're building up China to be some awe inspiring super power. Well they better get to work, because they are new money on the block. They are good and getting there, but they have plenty to do. And btw, we can shoot down satellites too............a long time ago.
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You've done nothing. I thought you might try to disprove the Pentagons "serious concerns" about China's growing military power. Frankly if you reject the Pentagons position, your argument is with them. I'm not the one that has declared China's military threat. The Pentagon and others have, and I put them up here.


WASHINGTON (AP) -- China is modernizing its military in ways that give it options for launching surprise attacks, potentially far from its borders, the Pentagon said Friday.
In an annual report to Congress, the Pentagon said the Chinese are acquiring better missiles, submarines and aircraft and should more fully explain the purpose of a military buildup that has led some to view China as a threat.
In a measured tone, the report offered a detailed look at China's military modernization. And it outlined areas of perceived ambiguity in Chinese strategy, including its declared policy of never starting a nuclear war; it concluded that Beijing may be exploring "new options" provided by its force modernization.


Read more: WSVN-TV - Pentagon: China improving its ability to launch surprise attacks, shoot down satellites
 
How long did it take to do Iraq? Afghanistan?

China is a serious nuclear power, they have a real Army, Navy and Air Force.

Are they 17 trillion in debt? Fvck no. There is a billion of them and it I say it is a serious mistake to underestimate them.
 
Mosby said:
Are they 17 trillion in debt? Fvck no. There is a billion of them and it I say it is a serious mistake to underestimate them.
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Who's underestimating China? I've seen no serious person say that they were anything like Iraq or Afghanistan.

But on the debt remark, I see people say things like this all the time, and it baffles me. It baffles me, because another way to state that same exact point is that, "China is heavily invested in the US." What you're characterizing as a crutch is one of the biggest reasons a full blown war is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
This seems absolutely absurd when you compare the defense budgets of the two nations:

China Defense Budget Fiscal 2012 - 106 Billion

United States Defense Budget Fiscal 2012 - 684 Billion (not counting off budget items throw those in and you get close to a trillion)

Chinese military capabilities are absolutely dwarfed by ours in every way.
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While I largely agree with what you said, I will say that I think Americans all too often cite their military budget, as though it is a direct and absolute indicator of who will win -- which is, as you well know, very much untrue. What's the Taliban's budget? Or the Viet Cong's?
 
Mosby said:
How long did it take to do Iraq? Afghanistan?

China is a serious nuclear power, they have a real Army, Navy and Air Force.

Are they 17 trillion in debt? Fvck no. There is a billion of them and it I say it is a serious mistake to underestimate them.
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It's the arm chair generals here that are dismissive of China's military threat. The Pentagon is not at all. Multiple reports have been posted and linked to warning of the growing threat China's military posses to its immediate neighbors and the US (see Pentagons report to congress) but the critics here apparently, not wishing to believe that there is a country with the growing ability to threaten the US would sooner ignore it.
 
American said:
Oh they wouldn't be concerned because they want to fund some projects would they? Double-digit funding by China, and we haven't done that since WWII. China has a long ways to go before they spend at our level. I don't need to find anything, you wrote them. You're building up China to be some awe inspiring super power. Well they better get to work, because they are new money on the block. They are good and getting there, but they have plenty to do. And btw, we can shoot down satellites too............a long time ago.
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Well that's a whole other issue. If your accusing the Pentagon of presenting a false threat to the US Congress to justify a budget increase we have another and different threat to be concerned about!
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Maybe so, but I will say that last time I was there I actually ended up running with a group of PLA soldiers around Guangzhou. In a country with the nicest airports you will ever see, some of the most technologically advanced infrastructure on earth, their soldiers looked pathetic at best. They looked like what one would picture any third world army would look like. Old ragged uniforms, cheap looking guns, obviously poorly paid, and looking a bit malnourished. Just saying, from what I have seen over in China myself, I don't think we should be overly concerned.
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Kudos to what you said.

And in that OP, I'm wondering about that study; I'm wondering just how much of that study was influenced by defense contractors wanting the US to put more $$ in to their pockets. :roll:
 
Bob N said:
Kudos to what you said.

And in that OP, I'm wondering about that study; I'm wondering just how much of that study was influenced by defense contractors wanting the US to put more $$ in to their pockets. :roll:
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You mean to say that our defense contractors used a Russian study to influence a congressional Pentagon budget increase? Ok, I'll go along!
 
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