New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 17, 2013

OldWorldOrder said:
No, you don't.

All of those actions were executed by politicians.

You're not getting that information, I'm very sorry. Vote for the politicians that you believe best support your stances. Inform yourself on their platforms. But you're not getting classified information, stop whining about it.

All were executed by politicians at the behest of us, the bosses. Ultimately, we are in charge. If they cannot control you folks in the areas that are under Congressional oversight, well, we need another system then. The arrogance you express demands it. If you wanted it all kept out of sight, you should have done a much better job of not straying from the straight and narrow as well as in the area of self policing. In the absence of that, gotta open up that can of worms.

See my man, you don't get to decide for the rest of us, we are the boss and you don't even come close to recognizing that... I think before we started this discussion I might have been a bit sympathetic to your side of the argument... but with the run around given, the abject disregard for the citizens concerns and even minimal steps to assure that you folks in the intelligence "game" are doing exactly as you are supposed to be doing, nothing more nothing less... we need to step in...and if not doing right, there needs be consequences.

I am quite sure there are many good and professional people who do their job faithfully and to the best of their ability day in and day out... but I am also quite convinced that there are others that don't and probably even others that lead them, from a position higher, astray. Knowingly or unknowingly. And when there is no accountability, there always results trouble. And currently, especially the way that you have expressed it, there seems very little even chance at accountability. Our Congress is routinely impotent in even keeping a President who has overstepped his Constitutionally delegated license, flaunted openly, from continuing to do so.

That is WITH all of us out here watching.

Its time we, the people, took a bit more control before this gets completely out-of-control.

Jango · Dec 17, 2013

Representative Stephen Lynch on the secret 9-11 report: "In this case, transparency is the way to go" – Piers Morgan - CNN.com Blogs

OldWorldOrder · Dec 17, 2013

Jango said:
So you're denying this: "You know there are ways to protect information while releasing information, it happens on a daily basis with FOIA and routine declassification."

So, how does the government release formerly classified information then, and why are portions still blacked/boxed out?

I'm denying that each situation is the same. If the issue is the size of an individual battalion in Cuba, you can just black out the names, because the ways and people involved in getting that information are so many that that's all that would be needed.

I don't understand why you think everything is the same.

Wait, yes I do: it's because you know nothing about which you're complaining.

OldWorldOrder · Dec 17, 2013

Gaugingcatenate said:
All were executed by politicians at the behest of us, the bosses. Ultimately, we are in charge. If they cannot control you folks in the areas that are under Congressional oversight, well, we need another system then. The arrogance you express demands it. If you wanted it all kept out of sight, you should have done a much better job of not straying from the straight and narrow as well as in the area of self policing. In the absence of that, gotta open up that can of worms.

The politicians executed these NSA operations, also at the public's behest, then. See my man, your don't get to decide what is rightfully done and what is not. The arrogance you express when you imply that you speak for the people is incredible. When politicians do something you like, that's them working for the people, yay! When they do something you don't like, it's time for a new system, boo! No. That's not how it works. You vote them in our out. That's your job. Just do it.

See my man, you don't get to decide for the rest of us, we are the boss and you don't even come close to recognizing that... I think before we started this discussion I might have been a bit sympathetic to your side of the argument... but with the run around given, the abject disregard for the citizens concerns and even minimal steps to assure that you folks in the intelligence "game" are doing exactly as you are supposed to be doing, nothing more nothing less... we need to step in...and if not doing right, there needs be consequences.

Call your representative. If he didn't respond the way you want, vote for someone that will.

I am quite sure there are many good and professional people who do their job faithfully and to the best of their ability day in and day out... but I am also quite convinced that there are others that don't and probably even others that lead them, from a position higher, astray. Knowingly or unknowingly. And when there is no accountability, there always results trouble. And currently, especially the way that you have expressed it, there seems very little even chance at accountability. Our Congress is routinely impotent in even keeping a President who has overstepped his Constitutionally delegated license, flaunted openly, from continuing to do so.

You keep acting like there's no accountability, simply because you don't like the conclusions your representatives have come to. That's too bad, but that doesn't mean there's no accountability. The fact- the fact- is that there is.

That is WITH all of us out here watching.

Its time we, the people, took a bit more control before this gets completely out-of-control.

Call your representatives.

Jango · Dec 17, 2013

OldWorldOrder said:
I'm denying that each situation is the same. If the issue is the size of an individual battalion in Cuba, you can just black out the names, because the ways and people involved in getting that information are so many that that's all that would be needed.

I don't understand why you think everything is the same.

Strawman alert.

OldWorldOrder · Dec 17, 2013

Jango said:
Strawman alert.

Improper accusation of fallacy alert!

You said "This sometimes happens, why can't it always happen?" My answer? "I don't understand why you think everything is the same".

Seriously, there's no rational debate with you. I've painstakingly went over why things are classified, how your Saudi thing is irrelevant to the process, and now why some things can't just have black bars over them. Your response is...what? Other people share your opinion? Some things can get away with black barring? You don't know much you have a hunch it's to save some "embarrassment"?

You and Ikari just operate in the world of your own imagination. If you think those 28 pages hold the key to the Kennedy assassination, I can't prove that they don't. I can only tell you why things are classified and the likely reason why those 28 pages are.

Now here's the extra hilarity for you: the classified version was (at least years ago, when I was there) available at the NSA Hawaii library, for literally anyone to read. Just out in the open. But yeah, I'm sure it has some ground-breaking revelations. I had no interest in even reading the unclassified version- and I read some pretty dry stuff, my master's thesis was on the Suez Canal Crisis- so I sure as **** wasn't going to read like 700 pages or whatever it was sitting in an office. But lol anyone could. Snowden himself, if he was so inclined. Hell, maybe he did.

Jango · Dec 17, 2013

OldWorldOrder said:
Improper accusation of fallacy alert!

You said "This sometimes happens, why can't it always happen?" My answer? "I don't understand why you think everything is the same".

Seriously, there's no rational debate with you. I've painstakingly went over why things are classified, how your Saudi thing is irrelevant to the process, and now why some things can't just have black bars over them. Your response is...what? Other people share your opinion? Some things can get away with black barring? You don't know much you have a hunch it's to save some "embarrassment"?

You and Ikari just operate in the world of your own imagination. If you think those 28 pages hold the key to the Kennedy assassination, I can't prove that they don't. I can only tell you why things are classified and the likely reason why those 28 pages are.

Now here's the extra hilarity for you: the classified version was (at least years ago, when I was there) available at the NSA Hawaii library, for literally anyone to read. Just out in the open. But yeah, I'm sure it has some ground-breaking revelations. I had no interest in even reading the unclassified version- and I read some pretty dry stuff, my master's thesis was on the Suez Canal Crisis- so I sure as **** wasn't going to read like 700 pages or whatever it was sitting in an office. But lol anyone could. Snowden himself, if he was so inclined. Hell, maybe he did.

:lol:

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 17, 2013

OldWorldOrder said:
The politicians executed these NSA operations, also at the public's behest, then. See my man, your don't get to decide what is rightfully done and what is not. The arrogance you express when you imply that you speak for the people is incredible. When politicians do something you like, that's them working for the people, yay! When they do something you don't like, it's time for a new system, boo! No. That's not how it works. You vote them in our out. That's your job. Just do it.

Call your representative. If he didn't respond the way you want, vote for someone that will.

You keep acting like there's no accountability, simply because you don't like the conclusions your representatives have come to. That's too bad, but that doesn't mean there's no accountability. The fact- the fact- is that there is.

Call your representatives.

Please. Do quit trying to tell me what my job is... you see, I am, along with all the others, the citizen co-owner of this place. I think there are a whole lotta us out here who think just as I do...and want to know truth from our government that is lying to us more and more everyday. That is the road to totalitarianism, my man. Wake up. We have to speak now before it becomes too late, not wait until the point of bloodshed as has occurred in other parts of our history and the histories of others. There is only so much government intrusion into our individual lives, only so much dictated out of our liberties that one, and a nation, can take. Slavery is not for me.

Prove to me all the "politicians" knew the extent of the NSA... go ahead, that's not classified too, is it? You see, my man, we, we the people... we do have that right to know...and even if it requires that we take that right back forcefully, I suppose we will, just like we did when we had our first Revolution, when that government thought it could do whatever it wanted as well. Now most of us would rather have some prudence shown by those who think they be the masters... but if not, they need to be shown who is the master.

Well, lets see now, where is the accountability? Show me, prove to me that people are being held accountable in the "intelligence" community. Show me where.

What is calling my rep gonna do, for example, with Obama breaking the rules every-which way he wants to...? He, and his subordinates, have undeniably committed numerable imminently impeachable acts... the House will do nothing, they know the Senate won't, under the partisan Reid, do a thing. So Obama does this does that, at his leisure. He is one of the ones we need to have the grand jury to call to account... how is it he is legislating, selectively enforcing, etc... our system has been so weakened, with a biased press siding with an Imperial President and the Senate Imperial guard covering his rear, rubber stamping his wanton ways. And GW had it the same, lest you think this just partisan jive.

Ikari · Dec 17, 2013

shanners said:
Why would they want to keep this secret? As is clear, it's not for fear of offending the Saudis so it must be protecting another entity:

H. Res. 428

RESOLUTION

Urging the president to release information regarding the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks upon the United States.

Whereas President George W. Bush classified 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 2001;

Whereas the contents of the redacted pages are necessary for a full public understanding of the events and circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001, attacks upon the United States;

Whereas the Executive Branch’s decision to maintain the classified status of these pages prevents the people of the United States from having access to information about the involvement of certain foreign governments in the terrorist attacks of September 2001; and

Whereas the people of the United States and the families of the victims of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks deserve full and public disclosure of the results of the Joint Inquiry: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that–

(1) the President should declassify the 28-page section of the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 2001; and

(2) the families of the victims and the people of the United States deserve answers about the events and circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001, attacks upon the United States.

source

Let's just hope we get the investigations and searches necessary to ensure the proper and constrained action of government.