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Whole Foods employees striking over requirements to work Thanksgiving

Mason66 said:
You think this is about holidays?

Once the employees know they have you over a barrel, they will demand many more things that hurt the business.

What will you do then?

Where will your red line be?

Most of us business owners have long ago crossed our red lines when we have been screwed over by employees that we have bent over backwards to help.

At some point you realize that an employee is the same as a desk or whatever else you have in the office. If you get involved in their personal lives, you lose.

You may think that is harsh, but you will learn that if you ever open your own business.

What you do for employees is never enough, so put away some cash to cover what the bad employees will cost you. It will happen.
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I agree 100%, except your first line. It IS about holidays. Used to be, having someone work on thanksgiving was unheard of, unless you simply didn't celebrate it, like the Chinese folk in "A Christmas Story".
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
if the replacements cannot get to their place of employment because of the picket line, i imagine that might force the employer to come to the negotiating table
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That would be a police matter.
 
KevinKohler said:
I agree 100%, except your first line. It IS about holidays. Used to be, having someone work on thanksgiving was unheard of, unless you simply didn't celebrate it, like the Chinese folk in "A Christmas Story".
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Yes this time. Next time it will be something else. That was my point and we all know there will be a next time.
 
Mason66 said:
Another story.

When I had my own business I was invited to one of my employees house for a party.

As I was sitting on the couch, the men of the family sat around the dining room table drinking beer and complaining about their bosses. Do I need to mention they were Mexican?

That is when I realized the difference between and employee and an employer. An employer can be an employee but an employee can never be an employer. The mindset is hugely different and it would just never work.

Employees do not know the work it takes to open a business and are not willing to put in that work to make a business successful.

They complain all day long, leave at 5 and collect their paycheck (welfare) at the end of the day while the owner works until 8 or 9 every night and takes home nothing, at least for the first couple years of a new business.

Employees will never understand that part of a business.
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Some do. You promote them, let them run the company, and "retire".
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
if the replacements cannot get to their place of employment because of the picket line, i imagine that might force the employer to come to the negotiating table
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And how, pray tell, does one legally stop someone from going where they want?
 
KevinKohler said:
Some do. You promote them, let them run the company, and "retire".
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Management is not ownership. They are still employees and ultimately do not have the responsibility for anything. It all rests with the owners.
 
Mason66 said:
Management is not ownership. They are still employees and ultimately do not have the responsibility for anything. It all rests with the owners.
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That's why I put retire in quotations.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
you cannot legally do that.

but you can use the media attention that a public strike would cause as leverage to bring the employer to the negotiating table.
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So financial terrorism.

Any business owner that would bow to media pressure, should just close the doors now.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
you cannot legally do that.

but you can use the media attention that a public strike would cause as leverage to bring the employer to the negotiating table.
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That you certainly can, what the employees of whole foods tried to do.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
they can go on strike and picket their employers place of business.
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Not exactly. In negotiations the most important factor is leverage, the harder someone is to replace the more leverage they have. If a worker is always early, stays late when necessary, performs above expectations, and excels in all aspects of the respective position they have plenty of leverage to ask for a raise, more vacation time, concessions such as a holiday or two off, and realistically this may be my next manager.

The employer who threatens to engage in unionization, wants to be treated as if they have a say in policy(and let's face it, that is not their area of expertise and they don't have the numbers to make a decision) and otherwise bitches and complains about contractual obligations forfeits all leverage in negotiations. I can find someone to fill that position quickly(unless it's a rare skill set), I can have them trained quickly, and if the new person's attitude sucks too, I haven't really lost anything over the employee they replaced so I start over until I get someone that I can trust and feel good about paying.
 
KevinKohler said:
If they are valuable to the company they have plenty to negotiate with. The employer has a financial choice to make when employees strike. Are the costs of hiring and training new help all while losing sales in the process greater or lesser than the demands being made by those employees. If it's less, fire them all, start over. If not, time to haggle.

It should be that simple.
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Mason pretty much spelled it out. If I let the employees win one and I have to shut down then what's to stop them from doing that every time they don't like a policy change. First off, did whole foods have ads printed stating they would be open? That's money spent already, only to have to change and have advertising saying that the decision has changed again so as to not piss off customers who are the only reason to be open in the first place. If ads weren't printed, there is still losing revenue if adjacent stores were opened, or if competitors opened. Funny thing is, I can care about my employees a lot, but my bottom line doesn't, call it bullying, call it establishing the employer/employee relationship but you can't just let employees decide policy.

Another example. I don't have a problem with long hair or tattoos, nor facial hair. I've had long hair, want to get a few tattoos, and I hate shaving but I worked in a restaurant that required me to not get ink that showed if it wasn't already present, I had to cut my hair, and shave for a shift because the customers expected us to be "clean cut", we were party animals after the shift but we had to present properly. If I own a business and my customers tell me they don't like the look of my employees...............dress code will be changed, it's not personal, it's business.
 
Mason66 said:
When I was working for my fathers company, he went on vacation leaving me in charge.

All of the front office girls would come in at 8:30 or 9:00 and sit at their desks and do their nails or pay bills, I was watching all this on the cameras, and about an hour later they would start working.

The company was paying them from the time they clocked in.

When I confronted them about it, they ignored me.

I fired the whole lot and brought in people that wanted to work and productivity went way up.

Once an employee is spoiled, they are no good and they must be fired. There is no bringing them back.
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Ever watch "Bar Rescue"? One of the episodes had a "spot fire", all of the employees were lousy and had no accountability, so Jon Taffer had the owner fire the worst employee in front of the rest of the staff in order to establish that consequences were now in effect.
 
KevinKohler said:
It's like a cancer, as well. Fail to do so, and they will corrupt any new hire within weeks.
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Before I waited tables I bused in the same restaurant, one of the new busboys was a lousy employee, took his lawful break plus found ways to disappear when he didn't have a break due him. When the guy did work we had to go behind and fix his mistakes. My manager literally told the better employees(including myself) "We're running him out of here, it's easier if it's his choice so make his life hell".
 
Mason66 said:
You will see when you have your own business.
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I didn't appreciate my employers fully until I tried to start my first business(insurance agent). I didn't have the overhead those guys did but I had all the headaches of trying to acquire clientele, make ends meet, never being completely off the clock, etc.
 
KevinKohler said:
I agree 100%, except your first line. It IS about holidays. Used to be, having someone work on thanksgiving was unheard of, unless you simply didn't celebrate it, like the Chinese folk in "A Christmas Story".
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I disagree. I'm the youngest of my cousins, even in the late 80s I had plenty of cousins missing from a holiday or two for work, that's almost 30 years ago.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
you cannot legally do that.

but you can use the media attention that a public strike would cause as leverage to bring the employer to the negotiating table.
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The public has to care, and honestly if one is keeping them from shopping the odds are not in the employees' favor as a general rule. If a person has to explain to their children that ice cream dessert is off because they forgot it and the store is closed, the kid's sad face is going to win over a person who doesn't want to work every time.
 
Mason66 said:
So financial terrorism.

Any business owner that would bow to media pressure, should just close the doors now.
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Honestly, I think the companies should start fighting back with defamation suits.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
if the replacements cannot get to their place of employment because of the picket line, i imagine that might force the employer to come to the negotiating table
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Anyone who gets in my way on public land is going to get knocked down. Picketers are not legally allowed to block traffic on public streets, sidewalks or driveways. You can have them hauled away if they do.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Ever watch "Bar Rescue"? One of the episodes had a "spot fire", all of the employees were lousy and had no accountability, so Jon Taffer had the owner fire the worst employee in front of the rest of the staff in order to establish that consequences were now in effect.
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Yes I saw that. I don't let employees get so far gone as to tell me, their boss, to chill or anything of the kind.

I was loved by all of my employees, as I treated them well and gave big Christmas bonuses, but I made it clear how things had to be done and don't challenge me on that.

I did make the mistake of hiring a friend one time and he called me out for telling him what to do on something and I took him outside to tell him that outside of work we were friends but inside I was the owner and if he didn't like it, to leave.

Who says you can't fire relatives or friends. If he was a relative, I would have gotten rid of him much sooner.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
why do people side with the group that has all the power, not the ones with out power?
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What happens if the business closes? Everybody loses.

Why would you side with people that have nothing to say about how the business is run other than it is the fad right now.
 
See below.
 
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When I was younger I worked at a Chevrolet dealership. I was getting paid crap wages but I considered it my college. I worked my butt off for them.

I did my job, but I walso wanted to learn how the parts department worked, the new car side worked, and the service department. We sold between 300 to 400 cars a month so there was always a lot to do.

I never complained about what I was making.

From what I learned on that job I think it would be great to buy a new car store, hopefully a Chevy store, because from all that I learned I can definitely run it with no problems. I am actually actively looking for a store in a good city.

That was 26 years ago. I worked when I was told to work, no complaints. I had not earned the right to complain about anything.

That is what these employees don't understand. They have not earned the right to complain about anything in a business they have no responsibility for. They should do what they are told and be glad they have the paycheck to take home and feed their kids.
 
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