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Corporations Aren't People

In N Out Burger pays well over minimum wage to start and provides benefits, so it CAN be done profitably.

In and Out and McDonald's both got their start in the 1940s, and today In and Out has 291 restaurants worldwide compared to McDonald's 34,000.

McDonald's employs roughly 100 times as many people as does In and Out..

Five Guys Burgers&Fires started in 1986 with roughly the same quality model as In and Out, but paid minimum wage to start, and now has 1000+ locations nationwide.

In and Out probably has better employee retention than McDonald's and Five Guys, but is that really that good of a thing for the average In and Out employee?
 
Oh, sure; that's exactly what I said. :roll:

No, the point was, they choose where to spend their money, and it's not on having a large menu.

Not sure how having a simpler menu equates to paying MUCH more than the competition.

Does signage cost that much? Is overhead dramatically increased because you have a couple different sauces or keep some eggrolls in the freezer?
 
Not sure how having a simpler menu equates to paying MUCH more than the competition.

It's a trade-off of costs.

Is overhead dramatically increased because you have a couple different sauces or keep some eggrolls in the freezer?

Yes. As well as labor, not least because the larger variety of food requires either more people to prep it or a longer time to do it in.
 
I wouldnt hire a worker so incompetent. What happens when my store never gets robbed? And i would encourage guns. Not murder.

What does the competence of a worker to perform their job well have to do with use or misuse or abuse of a firearm that you encouraged someone to bring into your workplace?
 
In N Out Burger pays well over minimum wage to start and provides benefits, so it CAN be done profitably.

In N Out is apparently $10.50 - still not a living wage... Keep going... If you are only concerned that they pay more then minimum.. Walmart does - so nothing more for you to complain about.
 
In and Out and McDonald's both got their start in the 1940s, and today In and Out has 291 restaurants worldwide compared to McDonald's 34,000.

McDonald's employs roughly 100 times as many people as does In and Out..

Five Guys Burgers&Fires started in 1986 with roughly the same quality model as In and Out, but paid minimum wage to start, and now has 1000+ locations nationwide.

In and Out probably has better employee retention than McDonald's and Five Guys, but is that really that good of a thing for the average In and Out employee?

I don't know In N Out as we don't have them here (which further proves your point), but well done.
 
I don't know In N Out as we don't have them here (which further proves your point), but well done.

Well, if you don't live in one of the few areas served by In and Out Burger the only real exposure you would have had to the company is that it was the "Damn fine burger" in the movie PULP FICTION.

The point of the argument is that In and Out's business model may be slightly better for their low-rung employees -- if flipping burgers is your career aspiration -- but as a business model it is terrible. The promotional opportunity alone in Five Guys, McDonald's, Wallmart and any of the other huge company chains is far superior to that of the miniscule In and Out.
 
Well, if you don't live in one of the few areas served by In and Out Burger the only real exposure you would have had to the company is that it was the "Damn fine burger" in the movie PULP FICTION.

Well, that and Big Lebowski.. but yes.
 
Ignore it and see Americans vote in socialism when capitalism is proven to not be working for them.

How will that change the worldwide rate of an engineer being $8/hr?
 
only because the law was created [lobbying of special interest] then challenged, if the senate had been in the state hands, the legislation would have not seen the light of day to begin with let alone reach the court.
Is that because a senate stacked with state-appointed senators would be continually gridlocked? I'm a little sketchy on how an unelected senate approves things. If it were impossible to get Citizen's United through the Senate, would that mean other legislation....maybe even most legislation would be similarly stonewalled, and die waiting for senate approval?

It's worth noting that one of the great revelations of the discovery of how ALEC functions, is that the corporate financiers who get their lawyers together with invited politicians, for the purpose of presenting the politicos modeled legislation, concentrate more on state and local government; not the federal government! Before most of us became aware of how this game was played, it seemed a mystery that so many local governments across the USA were passing very similar legislation on topics from: privatizing prisons and public schools, to union-busting laws and even so called "Stand Your Ground" laws. Now, it's a mystery no longer! As the trail of money and influence can be traced back to the sources.

democracy is a vile form of government-- james madsion father of the constitution.

faction/ special interest....... is huge by-product of democracy, ..it is always at war with individual rights of the people.
How is democracy "at war" with individual rights? The subtle shift in rightwing rhetoric over the last 20 years against democracy...i.e. the constantly repeated refrain of right wing talking heads:'America is a representative republic, not a democracy,' shows the hand being played by libertarians and conservatives, that they don't really care about individual rights and freedoms and desires and all that claptrap! What the right cares about is MONEY. The right wants to replace democracy with dollarocracy, so those with more money are able to use their money more effectively to advance their own interests. And those who don't have as much money: Sad Day For You! And the tendency of capitalism to increase the gaps in income, is accelerated.
 
Yeah its all a ****ing conspiracy. Heres a prescription: if you dont like a business dont shop there. Dont work there. Dont give your business to people you dont like.

Which is why I don't shop at Walmart, or buy crap at McDonalds!
But, I am in a financial position to have more choices over how I use my dollars than many people who are poor and on the margins of society. And this reveals just how fake the facade is of so called freedumb-lovin libertarianism! Because, you know as well as I do (or you should), that the poor have less dollars to shop with...which greatly limits their shopping choices (I don't see welfare people shopping at Whole Foods), and they may have to use their limited dollars to buy crap made with sweatshop labour at Walmart, because the alternatives are out of their price range! While those who earn $100,000 and up, have even greater purchasing power. And, this reveals who has the freedom and who is trapped, after we transcend to libertarian nirvana. The libertarian dream is to have mass unemployment, so people are desperate for those walmart and mcdonalds jobs, and get payed so little that they can only afford to shop at walmart and for a treat: buy burgers at mcdonalds!
 
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Is that because a senate stacked with state-appointed senators would be continually gridlocked? I'm a little sketchy on how an unelected senate approves things. If it were impossible to get Citizen's United through the Senate, would that mean other legislation....maybe even most legislation would be similarly stonewalled, and die waiting for senate approval?

It's worth noting that one of the great revelations of the discovery of how ALEC functions, is that the corporate financiers who get their lawyers together with invited politicians, for the purpose of presenting the politicos modeled legislation, concentrate more on state and local government; not the federal government! Before most of us became aware of how this game was played, it seemed a mystery that so many local governments across the USA were passing very similar legislation on topics from: privatizing prisons and public schools, to union-busting laws and even so called "Stand Your Ground" laws. Now, it's a mystery no longer! As the trail of money and influence can be traced back to the sources.


How is democracy "at war" with individual rights? The subtle shift in rightwing rhetoric over the last 20 years against democracy...i.e. the constantly repeated refrain of right wing talking heads:'America is a representative republic, not a democracy,' shows the hand being played by libertarians and conservatives, that they don't really care about individual rights and freedoms and desires and all that claptrap! What the right cares about is MONEY. The right wants to replace democracy with dollarocracy, so those with more money are able to use their money more effectively to advance their own interests. And those who don't have as much money: Sad Day For You! And the tendency of capitalism to increase the gaps in income, is accelerated.

by asking me these questions i applaud you, they are great questions, and i am glad your asked them, becuase i will explain, using what the founding fathers created, the structure of the federal government[republican government], to make my point.

i am limited for time right now, and do not have the ability to explain it fully, but i will do my very best to give you the information, later in the late afternoon, if you will please bare with me.
 
Yup. Get yourself one of those millions of unfilled, good paying jobs.

Oh, wait...

You have to compete for those jobs.

We live on a little round ball with FINITE resources that must be competed for. You want a bigger share? Work harder.
 
Well, I disagree. I think your interpretation is wrong.

There is nothing to disagree with. They are humans and as such interpret according to their personality and experience. Their ruling is not always accurate or correct as I also pointed out. That is a fact. Nothing to disagree with. That is, unless I am missing what you are disagreeing with.
 
In and Out and McDonald's both got their start in the 1940s, and today In and Out has 291 restaurants worldwide compared to McDonald's 34,000.

McDonald's employs roughly 100 times as many people as does In and Out..

Five Guys Burgers&Fires started in 1986 with roughly the same quality model as In and Out, but paid minimum wage to start, and now has 1000+ locations nationwide.

In and Out probably has better employee retention than McDonald's and Five Guys, but is that really that good of a thing for the average In and Out employee?

From what I understand In n Out's pay structure is aimed at providing a good part time income for college students so they don't have to work themselves to death while trying to get an education

Therefore, they expect their employees to move on and are helping them do so.
 
It's a trade-off of costs.



Yes. As well as labor, not least because the larger variety of food requires either more people to prep it or a longer time to do it in.

Not really. Most fast food places, everything comes ready to cook and serve. All that stuff on Jack in the Box's menu is frozen ready to throw in the fryer. At Taco Bell even the cheese and lettuce comes pre-shredded.

Little on most fast food menus is labor intensive or a serious waste issue.
 
Not really. Most fast food places, everything comes ready to cook and serve. All that stuff on Jack in the Box's menu is frozen ready to throw in the fryer. At Taco Bell even the cheese and lettuce comes pre-shredded.

Little on most fast food menus is labor intensive or a serious waste issue.

That's just . . . not true. There's plenty of prep which needs to be done. Have you ever worked food?
 
In N Out is apparently $10.50 - still not a living wage... Keep going... If you are only concerned that they pay more then minimum.. Walmart does - so nothing more for you to complain about.

Walmart pays about $8.50 average based on experience to start.

So $.75/hr over minimum. $340/week gross

In n Out $10.50. $2.75 over minimum. $420/wk gross.

A difference of $80/wk, $320/month.

Not exactly apples and apples.
 
How will that change the worldwide rate of an engineer being $8/hr?

Oh, it'll make things worse.

But hopeless people do stupid things.

As a species we need to accept that human beings aren't 2x4s or 3/8" screws, and calculating their "value" to the "market" as such is completely unacceptable in a made up game that is supposed to serve EVERYBODY.
 
Oh, it'll make things worse.

But hopeless people do stupid things.

As a species we need to accept that human beings aren't 2x4s or 3/8" screws, and calculating their "value" to the "market" as such is completely unacceptable in a made up game that is supposed to serve EVERYBODY.

Some people are more valuable than others, thats just a hard fact of life, wilbur.
 
Oh, it'll make things worse.

But hopeless people do stupid things.

As a species we need to accept that human beings aren't 2x4s or 3/8" screws, and calculating their "value" to the "market" as such is completely unacceptable in a made up game that is supposed to serve EVERYBODY.

The point is, you didn't actually answer the question.
 
My biggest problem with it is it in essence grants foreign nations the power to buy a limited level of instant US citizenship and influence US elections outcomes. Anyone with money can purchase stock in a publicly traded corporation; American, foreigner, friend or foe. Although its illegal to accept campaign contributions from a Middle Eastern Oil Sheik or member of the Communist Party of Cuba, under the present interpretation of the law all they would need to do is buy enough stock in a corporation and direct that the corporation make the campaign contribution. Then add to that the limits that are placed on personal contributions while corporations can give way more to finance US elections than regular citizens.
You're right. That's what happens when you grant a company personhood. Thanks for sharing.
 
You have to compete for those jobs.

We live on a little round ball with FINITE resources that must be competed for. You want a bigger share? Work harder.

The structure under which "competition" occurs is a construct. Subject to modification. "Competition" isn't "pure" because if it was I could take your mansion if you couldn't defend it. Your factory too.

And people ARE working harder. Their wages just aren't going up because proceeds from increased productivity go to the owners.
 
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