Gallup: 76% Of Americans Support A Minimum Wage Increase

cpwill said:

Er, no. Net increase in wages over increase in prices increases demand. Simply artificially raising the wage floor achieves neither of those things.

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Exactly! Since wage increases do not need to increase prices, wage increases increase demand

SMTA said:

Obviously you do not understand business.

You can't just 'take up slack'.

In many cases there is no slack.

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When a place has business and then goes out of business, there is demand for another business to come in and grab their market share

Fenton said:

That's silly and pardon me if I don't take your economic assertions seriously. I mean you DO defend the party that' responsible for our current economic situation. I mean you people don't have much credibility left.

You people actually thought that Obama care was going to shrink premiums and make health care "affordable". It's clear you have no real substantial knowledge of how our free market system works so spare me your rhetoric about how " the cost of goods is dependent on supply and demand"

I mean if you people haven't learned by now WHY are you even responding ?

Raising the minimum wage would do one of TWO things. It would lower the number of entry level positions and actually reduce the number of jobs as employers struggle to make up the extra cost OR, Businesses would raise the price of their inventory to make up for demand.

Your so lacking in fundamental knowledge on the concepts of a free market economy you actually think arbitrary cost increases as mandated by the Government are a GOOD thing.

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How many people do you think pbrouer are?

sangha said:

Exactly! Since wage increases do not need to increase prices, wage increases increase demand

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Incorrect - as the price of production increases, so to, prices of goods and services. Since net wage increases is not assured by a minimum wage increase, but since prices are likely to go up, the immediate dynamic effect is to reduce demand.

When a place has business and then goes out of business, there is demand for another business to come in and grab their market share

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Yup. Now consider the implications of "providing production" as a business.

You give more money to low end wage earners they will likely put it right back into the community.

Dezaad said:

I would support such maximums alongside a robust minimum wage if everyone was guaranteed employment.

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Sure, congress will simply mandate that you, personally, hire and pay them. Don't worry, some of them may actually show up occasionally and perhaps some of those will even choose to do their assigned tasks.

year2late said:

You give more money to low end wage earners they will likely put it right back into the community.

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Not if the price of everything else has increased to the point of un-affordability.

Not a difficult concept to understand.

ttwtt78640 said:

Sure, congress will simply mandate that you, personally, hire and pay them. Don't worry, some of them may actually show up occasionally and perhaps some of those will even choose to do their assigned tasks.

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You see, you claim everyone should be refused help after a certain point in their poverty, but you refuse to ensure that thrre is any work for them to do.

year2late said:

You give more money to low end wage earners they will likely put it right back into the community.

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They will indeed.

However, labor, like all goods and services, exists on a supply/demand curve.

So, for example, let's say that MaxMart's current demand for checkout line clerks and baggers is 20 per shift at (keeping numbers easy) $5 an hour. That's $100 an hour back into the economy.

But then we raise minimum wage to $10 an hour. Now MaxMart has to make some cost/benefit decisions, and so it invests in some self-checkout machines, and keeps the more talented / intelligent / capable workers, but no longer needs the rest. Now you have 8 per shift at $10 an hour. Net reduction to the local economy - $20 an hour. That's before you factor in the fact that now stuff at MaxMart costs more.

Dezaad said:

You see, you claim everyone should be refused help after a certain point in their poverty, but you refuse to ensure that thrre is any work for them to do.

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There is plenty of work to be done but the ability to do that work is required as well. Check the online help wanted ads.

austin general labor jobs classifieds - craigslist

Dezaad said:

You see, you claim everyone should be refused help after a certain point in their poverty, but you refuse to ensure that thrre is any work for them to do.

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I'm fine with helping them to get work. One of the better ways we can do that is make it less expensive to hire them.

cpwill said:

They will indeed.

However, labor, like all goods and services, exists on a supply/demand curve.

So, for example, let's say that MaxMart's current demand for checkout line clerks and baggers is 20 per shift at (keeping numbers easy) $5 an hour. That's $100 an hour back into the economy.

But then we raise minimum wage to $10 an hour. Now MaxMart has to make some cost/benefit decisions, and so it invests in some self-checkout machines, and keeps the more talented / intelligent / capable workers, but no longer needs the rest. Now you have 8 per shift at $10 an hour. Net reduction to the local economy - $20 an hour. That's before you factor in the fact that now stuff at MaxMart costs more.

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What!?

Mechanization can be cheaper than humans?

Say it ain't so, Joe!

SMTA said:

What!?

Mechanization can be cheaper than humans?

Say it ain't so, Joe! ��

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You know, it was only a couple of months after the last time we raised the minimum wage that all those self-checkout machine started popping up all over the place....


....gosh, wonder what happened to all the tellers? :roll:

cpwill said:

You know, it was only a couple of months after the last time we raised the minimum wage that all those self-checkout machine started popping up all over the place....


....gosh, wonder what happened to all the tellers? :roll:

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They're telling everyone else that they need work....

Seems a lot like all of those expensive UAW welders who got replaced by robot welders.

But....hold the phone, Ethel!.....could this be the reason why a large portion of US automotive production has moved to Mexico!?

Could be, Rabbit, could be!

LOL, what an embarassingly stupid poll.

Question: Do you want more money?

Answer: YES, I DO!

Conclusion: A Gallup poll recently found that 98 percent of people want more money. The remaining two percent from Colorado were too stoned to understand the question.

Gipper said:

This would be legitimate if most Americans were...what's the word? Oh yeah. Smart.

Of course uneducated scrubs are going to support MW increases - it's immediate gratification, and they don't understand the ramifications of it. If they did, they wouldn't make minimum wage.

I don't cater to the lowest common denominator.

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Why do the True Believers of the far right feel it is necessary to denigrate the American people with scorn and ridicule?

haymarket said:

Why do the True Believers of the far right feel it is necessary to denigrate the American people with scorn and ridicule?

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Because they have demonstrated that they deserve it.

We went out into the world to make it safe for freedom and prosperity, only to return home and find a socialist upon our own throne.

year2late said:

You give more money to low end wage earners they will likely put it right back into the community.

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And rich people don't buy food? They don't buy other consumer goods?

If you give money to those who have not earned it, you not only hurt society, but have performed a grave injustice to the person who doesn't earn it.

As the whole thread has to do with minimum wage increases, if you pay them more, everyone has to pay more.

Interesting that with all this talk of raising minimum wage, I went into Lowes yesterday and they had added 4 self checkout stations and only had one maned station open. Yep, raising minimum wage is great, for those who produce and sell automation.

cpwill said:

They will indeed.

However, labor, like all goods and services, exists on a supply/demand curve.

So, for example, let's say that MaxMart's current demand for checkout line clerks and baggers is 20 per shift at (keeping numbers easy) $5 an hour. That's $100 an hour back into the economy.

But then we raise minimum wage to $10 an hour. Now MaxMart has to make some cost/benefit decisions, and so it invests in some self-checkout machines, and keeps the more talented / intelligent / capable workers, but no longer needs the rest. Now you have 8 per shift at $10 an hour. Net reduction to the local economy - $20 an hour. That's before you factor in the fact that now stuff at MaxMart costs more.

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Do they need double the amount of baggers? Really? (It is even funnier because we have to pay for bags here and folks frequently leave without their items even bagged:lamo)

Now $5/hour leaves you square in government support land. Not really helpful. Now, you tell me that those $5/hour jobs have full medical/dental/vision no cost to the employee I might be ok with it. But given that Walmart (for at least 10 plus years)has done all they can to make sure their employees do get government support, I hardly think this is likely.

DVSentinel said:

And rich people don't buy food? They don't buy other consumer goods?

If you give money to those who have not earned it, you not only hurt society, but have performed a grave injustice to the person who doesn't earn it.

As the whole thread has to do with minimum wage increases, if you pay them more, everyone has to pay more.

Interesting that with all this talk of raising minimum wage, I went into Lowes yesterday and they had added 4 self checkout stations and only had one maned station open. Yep, raising minimum wage is great, for those who produce and sell automation.

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In terms of percentage of income, what you pay them goes right back into the economy.

ttwtt78640 said:

There is plenty of work to be done but the ability to do that work is required as well. Check the online help wanted ads.

austin general labor jobs classifieds - craigslist

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How is that ability gained? Is the teaching to do those jobs free? If not, do the people who want the teaching have money to get it?

In addition, if there are, let's say, 10 jobs available, 9 are filled, 1 is being advertised in the want ads, and there are 13 people who want jobs, it doesn't mean there is a job for all who want one. And yes, they still advertise jobs even when there is a surplus of workers.

Dezaad said:

How is that ability gained? Is the teaching to do those jobs free? If not, do the people who want the teaching have money to get it?

In addition, if there are, let's say, 10 jobs available, 9 are filled, 1 is being advertised in the want ads, and there are 13 people who want jobs, it doesn't mean there is a job for all who want one. And yes, they still advertise jobs even when there is a surplus of workers.

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Millions of people have come here illegally, with very little education and poor English speaking skills, yet they found work. You are very confused if you think that filled jobs are available. Having a surplus of "workers"? More likely a desire to replace some slackers. I think you meant to say that there is now a surplus of those that are not workers, that would be competing for every open position except that they have found that the dole makes working into an option.

year2late said:

In terms of percentage of income, what you pay them goes right back into the economy.

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No ****. If you have to pay the same price for basics, then the person who makes less spends a higher percentage. That is hardly a measure of what someone contributes to society. The owners of Walmart spend a lesser percentage of their income for basics, and by your standards, they contribute less. I wonder, how much would that minimum wage earner contribute if Walmart didn't employ more than a million people? I consider creating and maintaining a million jobs as giving more to society than a person who spends 45% of their income for housing.

I voted YES on the ballot initiative in NJ to increase the State minimum wage to $8.25 and tie it to inflation.

I would have voted yes to increase it to anywhere up to $15 if I had been given the option.

But here's the thing, the cost of living in NJ is among the highest in the nation.

I don't think that folks in Tennessee or Georgia, states among those with the lowest cost of living in America, should be entitled to the same kind of minimum income.

Because cost of living is so regional I think that this is really an issue that's best left up to the states.

Minimum wage is not an easy issue, is it?
On the one hand, most agree that people should be encouraged to go to work, and that workers should be better off than those who don't work.
On the other hand, if you raise the minimum wage too high, jobs get eliminated and prices rise.
On the one hand, a robust economy depends on consumers having enough money to purchase goods and services.
On the other hand, too much money going to people who don't produce enough to justify their wage decreases employment and discourages hiring.
On the one hand, low level workers need to improve job skills in order to be worth higher wages. On the other, college and vocational training are becoming more and more expensive.

There really are no simple answers, are there?

year2late said:

Do they need double the amount of baggers? Really? (It is even funnier because we have to pay for bags here and folks frequently leave without their items even bagged:lamo)

Now $5/hour leaves you square in government support land. Not really helpful. Now, you tell me that those $5/hour jobs have full medical/dental/vision no cost to the employee I might be ok with it. But given that Walmart (for at least 10 plus years)has done all they can to make sure their employees do get government support, I hardly think this is likely.

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If a company has the availability of a very large number of potential employees to work at $5 an hour jobs without full medical/dental/vision, then why should they pay for those things? Low wage, low skilled workers are all over the place and there are fewer jobs for them than there are people to fill those spots.

I also love your example of the baggers. My local supermarket that I shop at doesn't charge for bags and it is a low wage, no benefits job. It has lots of bagpeople. Yours on the otherhand has people leaving without even using bags. Which creates more jobs?

Instead of the emotional view point. Try looking at it from the companies. Many of us don't particularly like the way a company runs, but we have little to no choice about using them.

I brought up Lowes previously for a very specific reason. I have family that works for them, one an assistant manager and the other a mid-level executive who until recently worked a corporate. Before the SCOTUS decision on Obama-doesn't-care and all the talk about raising minimum wage (and some states actually doing so). Those family members said the company was in the process of removing self-checkout from their stores. Now all the sudden, not only did they not remove them, they doubled the number available and reduced employees at the checkout counters by approximately 2/3. That particular store has reduced man-hours by approximately 66% in that department.

By consolidating and automating, Walmart could easily reduce their labor force in their stores by 40% or more. The higher their labor costs become, it becomes more affordable and sensible to do so. Will customers dislike it? Sure, but what other options do they have? Like my dad says, "I don't like shopping at Walmart, but I cannot afford to shop anyplace else."