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Poll: 78% Of Uninsured Not Interested In ObamaCare

mak2 said:
The problem is we have a profit based system, we need an evidnce based one. Both sides can talk for years, but nothing will really change until we do that.
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Evidence? Please explain.

And please remember that companies making a profit is the American way. Bureaucracy is responsible for a great deal of the costs.
 
Evidence based medicine. Best practice. You know, science.
WCH said:
Evidence? Please explain.

And please remember that companies making a profit is the American way. Bureaucracy is responsible for a great deal of the costs.
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winston53660 said:
So they will freeload off the system?
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Why are you assuming that? I went without insurance for some periods of time. Had to go to an emergency room once - they have sent me a bill, and I paid it. Nobody was freeloading.

Most people who constitute the burden on emergency rooms are the poor who are not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. So, expand the coverage by Medicaid, if THAT is your favorite problem, don't force people to buy a product they don't want at prices they cannot afford.

Right now, I have an individually purchased catastrophic insurance policy that will become substantially more expensive, thanks to the "reform". I can afford it, but for many people the increase will make all the difference: they will simply drop it, and deal with the IRS in a year. Our "liberals" might soon discover that surprising numbers of their ungrateful subjects don't actually like to be coerced into being mugged - after being defrauded.
 
You have to love a president that says, "we are working very hard to fix it". Uh, what would you say if you were a brain surgeon. When we hire a contractor to remodel a room we don't wan?t to hear that remark now do we? All politicians lie, that is why we vote for them but when the screw up is of a magnitude never witnessed before in the insurance industry is there any room in this lying pig of a president where he would say to us "I am a stupid, pathetic buffoon and I am resigning this office effective today so the highly astute and brilliant scholar Jo-Jo Biden is you new leader".
 
jmotivator said:
You do realize that breathing is essential to survival and insurance isn't, right?
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Arguably, insurance is detrimental.

Both bloated government bureaucracies and health insurance companies act as expensive and intrusive parasitic intermediaries in the current setup (which the Obamacare deepens and cements).

In a rational world, government would restrict itself to direct subsidies for the poor (or for everyone, depending on the structure of subsidy), insurance companies would offer policies covering only events of less-than-100% probability (not routine medical expenses), and the actual health care market - between the patients and the doctors, nurses, drug makers - would take care of the rest.
 
iguanaman said:
But healthcare IS essential to survival for many of us. How can you not know that?
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80% of Americans already HAD healthcare prior to the government deciding they knew better as to what was best for them.
 
iguanaman said:
But healthcare IS essential to survival for many of us. How can you not know that?
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You just made the same dumb argument you entered the discussion with. Again, health care and health insurance aren't the same thing.
 
VanceMack said:
80% of Americans already HAD healthcare prior to the government deciding they knew better as to what was best for them.
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No, 100% of Americans had health CARE, 80% had health INSURANCE. There is a mountain of difference in the two.
 
jmotivator said:
You just made the same dumb argument you entered the discussion with. Again, health care and health insurance aren't the same thing.
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For a lot of us it is. You must be one of the 1%.
 
jmotivator said:
No, 100% of Americans had health CARE, 80% had health INSURANCE. There is a mountain of difference in the two.
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the argument could be made that those without means or resources (such as cash or insurance) do NOT have healthcare. Yes...they have an avenue for emergency healthcare and in some cities they have community healthcare that is also available.

I think a lot of this ignores the core reality. People that did not get healthcare insurance before will opt to not get it even under the ACA.
 
One of the big reasons UHC is so superior is its preventative medicine aspects of care. The article you cited it trying to say you should measure outcomes from the point of interventioin. Creative, I have to admit, but not good medicine. For example, in this country we dont focus much on preventing heart attack becuse there is so much money in cardiac surgical intervention and the statins. No, I argue that preventing the heartattack in the first place is by far the better measure of a healthcare system.
jmotivator said:
I posted it on the previous page, but here you go, again:
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VanceMack said:
the argument could be made that those without means or resources (such as cash or insurance) do NOT have healthcare. Yes...they have an avenue for emergency healthcare and in some cities they have community healthcare that is also available.
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If we want to count the "have not"s as those who didn't have access to all forms of health care then I would say your number is far too high. Only those with the means to pay for their own health care bills have "health care" by that standard. But I am hard pressed to think of an area that doesn't have a free clinic or hospital to give out preventative care. I think the % of people without access to some form of healthcare is far less than 20%, and likely far closer to 0%.

I think a lot of this ignores the core reality. People that did not get healthcare insurance before will opt to not get it even under the ACA.
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I'm sure that is true. It is the central weakness of the Obamacare plan. When faced with CHEAPER insurance prior to the ACA these people didn't buy it, but somehow we expect they will buy it now that it is more expensive? Progressive Logic at its best.
 
mak2 said:
One of the big reasons UHC is so superior is its preventative medicine aspects of care. The article you cited it trying to say you should measure outcomes from the point of interventioin. Creative, I have to admit, but not good medicine. For example, in this country we dont focus much on preventing heart attack becuse there is so much money in cardiac surgical intervention and the statins. No, I argue that preventing the heartattack in the first place is by far the better measure of a healthcare system.
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You can't argue that UHC preventative care is better when life expectancy is higher in the US (after discounting fatal accidents) and cancer survival rate is higher in the US than in these UHC countries.
 
mak2 said:
One of the big reasons UHC is so superior is its preventative medicine aspects of care. The article you cited it trying to say you should measure outcomes from the point of interventioin. Creative, I have to admit, but not good medicine. For example, in this country we dont focus much on preventing heart attack becuse there is so much money in cardiac surgical intervention and the statins. No, I argue that preventing the heartattack in the first place is by far the better measure of a healthcare system.
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Also, your example of preventative care isn't really a "health care" issue. The leading causes of heart disease are obesity, smoking and alcoholism. These aren't things solved through traditional medicine. You don't need to pay a dime to Eat less, stop smoking and exercise. In fact, two of those cost LESS money and the other is free.
 
Well, I really really hate to point this out, but you remember Michelle's drive to curb childhood obsiety...
jmotivator said:
Also, your example of preventative care isn't really a "health care" issue. The leading causes of heart disease are obesity, smoking and alcoholism. These aren't things solved through traditional medicine. You don't need to pay a dime to Eat less, stop smoking and exercise.
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mak2 said:
Well, I really really hate to point this out, but you remember Michelle's drive to curb childhood obsiety...
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Do you need insurance to participate? Didn't think so.
 
winston53660 said:
So you'd just rather have people show up to the ER bar none?
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Typical "my way or the highway" mentality. It's either support the total POS called Obamacare, OR allow people to go to the ER. THERE IS NO OTHER OPTIONS or possible solutions, none. Right? Well guess what, even with your plan in place people are still going to the ER, because they aren't covered and they aren't paying for their coverage.
 
American said:
Typical "my way or the highway" mentality. It's either support the total POS called Obamacare, OR allow people to go to the ER. THERE IS NO OTHER OPTIONS or possible solutions, none. Right? Well guess what, even with your plan in place people are still going to the ER, because they aren't covered and they aren't paying for their coverage.
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There were no solutions to reducing the number of uninsured from the opposition. Despite adding 161 amendments to the ACA the Republicans just say NO.
You guys made up the name Obamacare although the President has commented that he doesn't mind because HE DOES CARE.
 
iguanaman said:
There were no solutions to reducing the number of uninsured from the opposition. Despite adding 161 amendments to the ACA the Republicans just say NO.
You guys made up the name Obamacare although the President has commented that he doesn't mind because HE DOES CARE.
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Obama-Care has increased the number of uninsured acutely.

I never heard the Republicans offer up a plan that would force people off of their plans.
 
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